Electrified
Member
Ok I know I don't have the greek right, but just what is MOAON AABE? I see it all over but just don't know what it means. You scholars step up to the plate....
Bob
Bob
What is MOAON AABE?
- Thread starter Electrified
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vis-à-vis
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Greek for "come and take them" I think.
http://www.thefiringline.com/HCI/molon_labe.htm
stems from King Leonidas, King( general?) of the Spartans, in response to a Persian demand that the 300 spartans and 1000 thebians to surrender in the face of whats legend to be a million men. the Spartans were making a stand to buy time for the rest of the greeks to amass forces... spartans held on for 3 days, and fought to the last man
this was the Battle of Thermopylae
stems from King Leonidas, King( general?) of the Spartans, in response to a Persian demand that the 300 spartans and 1000 thebians to surrender in the face of whats legend to be a million men. the Spartans were making a stand to buy time for the rest of the greeks to amass forces... spartans held on for 3 days, and fought to the last man
this was the Battle of Thermopylae
creitzel
Member
See Here: http://www.thefiringline.com/HCI/molon_labe.htm 
Chris
Edited to add: DOH, Hoppy beat me to it
Chris
Edited to add: DOH, Hoppy beat me to it
Yes it means, "come and take them."
It was said by the Spatans at Thermopylae (sp?) when the Persians demanded that the defending Greeks hand over their weapons.
There were between 7,000 and 10,000 Greeks (including 300 Spartans) defending against between 700,000 and 1,000,000 Persians. The Greeks absolutely stomped the Persians for two days, inflicting massive casualties on the Persians (like 20,000 or more a day) with only a dozen or so losses on the Greek side. The fight took place on a narrow beach with rocky mountains on one side. The Persians needed to fight through this beach to get to the Greek states.
Then the Persians found an alternate route to get around the Greeks and encircle them towards the third day. Seeing the inevitable, the Spartans told the other Greeks to go back and warn and prepare those back home. The Spartans volunteered to stay behind and hold the Persians so the rest could escape. 700 Thebians (who were weekend warrior types and not professional soldiers like the Spartans) volunteered to stay with the Spartans.
So 1000 Spartans and Thebians fought to the end to buy the rest time to escape. It is said that they fought with their spears till they broke, then their swords till those broke too, then their fists, teeth, and nails until they were finally hewn down. Even surrounded and outnumbered, the Spartans are rumored to have inflicted casualties at a ratio greater than 20:1.
It was said by the Spatans at Thermopylae (sp?) when the Persians demanded that the defending Greeks hand over their weapons.
There were between 7,000 and 10,000 Greeks (including 300 Spartans) defending against between 700,000 and 1,000,000 Persians. The Greeks absolutely stomped the Persians for two days, inflicting massive casualties on the Persians (like 20,000 or more a day) with only a dozen or so losses on the Greek side. The fight took place on a narrow beach with rocky mountains on one side. The Persians needed to fight through this beach to get to the Greek states.
Then the Persians found an alternate route to get around the Greeks and encircle them towards the third day. Seeing the inevitable, the Spartans told the other Greeks to go back and warn and prepare those back home. The Spartans volunteered to stay behind and hold the Persians so the rest could escape. 700 Thebians (who were weekend warrior types and not professional soldiers like the Spartans) volunteered to stay with the Spartans.
So 1000 Spartans and Thebians fought to the end to buy the rest time to escape. It is said that they fought with their spears till they broke, then their swords till those broke too, then their fists, teeth, and nails until they were finally hewn down. Even surrounded and outnumbered, the Spartans are rumored to have inflicted casualties at a ratio greater than 20:1.
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Fly320s
Member
Molon Labe: The Drink
1 part Blood of Tyrants
1 crushed Tree of Liberty leaf
2 parts Sam Adam's beer
Dash of Hoppe's to taste
Shake it until the Tree of Liberty leaf has absorbed the blood.
Serve ice cold, like revenge.
1 part Blood of Tyrants
1 crushed Tree of Liberty leaf
2 parts Sam Adam's beer
Dash of Hoppe's to taste
Shake it until the Tree of Liberty leaf has absorbed the blood.
Serve ice cold, like revenge.
rc135
Member
300 -- the Film
The upcoming film, "300" appears to be about just this incident 'tween the Greeks and the Persians. There's a sneak preview next week at the local USMC base (MCAS MIramar). I'll post here after I watch it.
The upcoming film, "300" appears to be about just this incident 'tween the Greeks and the Persians. There's a sneak preview next week at the local USMC base (MCAS MIramar). I'll post here after I watch it.
SHANE333- "Then the Persians found an alternate route to get around the Greeks and encircle them towards the third day."
Actually, the Persians did NOT FIND an alternate route.
The Spartans were betrayed from within by an act of treachery on the part of a disgruntled, native Greek, Ephialtes, by name.
Ephialtes went to the Persians and convinced Xerxes he could lead the Persian soldiers through a tiny mountain pass which would bring them in behind the Spartans.
Once Leonidas learned the Persians were coming in behind him in great force, he released the other Greek armies from their obligation to stay and fight. All left but the 700 Thesbians, who stayed and died to the last man, fighting alongside the Spartans.
The battle at Thermopylae (480 B.C.), actually enabled the Greeks by giving them time to marshall their forces against Xerxes and his Persians, in the naval battle of Salamis, just off the coast of Atticus. Themistocles, the leader of the Greeks, managed to deceive Xerxes, causing Xerxes to order his fleet to attack the Greeks at the wrong place at the wrong time.
The Greek navy was under the supreme command of another Spartan, Eurybiades. He and his navy, practically obliterated Xerxes' navy, sinking more than 200 ships. The blow was decisive.
Xerxes, realizing his cause was hopeless, along
with his Persians, then made an ignominious retreat into Asia.
Historians believe without a doubt that had Xerxes and his Persians managed to destroy Greece, there would not have been any "western European Civilization," as we know it. Today, we would be more of an "asian" civilization, rather than what we know of as our culture. Afterall, it was Greek culture and civilization, which led to Roman civilization and culture, which eventually led to ... us.
Due to Leonidas and his Spartans, the 700 Thesbians, and Eurybiades and his sailor warrors, we today enjoy what became a western european culture.
There is an ancient monument in the pass at Thermopylae commemorating Spartan law, valor, and honor. It reads, "Stranger, go tell the Lacedaemononians [Spartans] that we lie here in obedience to their commands."
L.W.
Actually, the Persians did NOT FIND an alternate route.
The Spartans were betrayed from within by an act of treachery on the part of a disgruntled, native Greek, Ephialtes, by name.
Ephialtes went to the Persians and convinced Xerxes he could lead the Persian soldiers through a tiny mountain pass which would bring them in behind the Spartans.
Once Leonidas learned the Persians were coming in behind him in great force, he released the other Greek armies from their obligation to stay and fight. All left but the 700 Thesbians, who stayed and died to the last man, fighting alongside the Spartans.
The battle at Thermopylae (480 B.C.), actually enabled the Greeks by giving them time to marshall their forces against Xerxes and his Persians, in the naval battle of Salamis, just off the coast of Atticus. Themistocles, the leader of the Greeks, managed to deceive Xerxes, causing Xerxes to order his fleet to attack the Greeks at the wrong place at the wrong time.
The Greek navy was under the supreme command of another Spartan, Eurybiades. He and his navy, practically obliterated Xerxes' navy, sinking more than 200 ships. The blow was decisive.
Xerxes, realizing his cause was hopeless, along
with his Persians, then made an ignominious retreat into Asia.
Historians believe without a doubt that had Xerxes and his Persians managed to destroy Greece, there would not have been any "western European Civilization," as we know it. Today, we would be more of an "asian" civilization, rather than what we know of as our culture. Afterall, it was Greek culture and civilization, which led to Roman civilization and culture, which eventually led to ... us.
Due to Leonidas and his Spartans, the 700 Thesbians, and Eurybiades and his sailor warrors, we today enjoy what became a western european culture.
There is an ancient monument in the pass at Thermopylae commemorating Spartan law, valor, and honor. It reads, "Stranger, go tell the Lacedaemononians [Spartans] that we lie here in obedience to their commands."
L.W.
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You are absolutely correct, Leanwolf, about the betrayal. I didn't go into specifics about how the Persians found out about the trail for the sake of brevity.
Without the mountain trail to get around and encircle the Greeks, it is quite possible that the Greeks could have held the Persians indefinately at Thermopylae. If I remember my history correctly, the Greeks had a system set up where new replacements could be brought in to replace the daily casualties because the number was so small. Not to mention the fact that the Greeks were closer to their supply line and the logistics for feeding them were much easier than it was for the Persians. I imagine that after another week of failure and a couple hundred thousand casualties more, the Persians would probably have abandoned their invasion right there.
Goes to show how one traitor can make the difference between victory and defeat.
Oh, I also seem to remember that the Greeks killed two of Xerxes' brothers at Thermopylae. I bet that left an impression.
Without the mountain trail to get around and encircle the Greeks, it is quite possible that the Greeks could have held the Persians indefinately at Thermopylae. If I remember my history correctly, the Greeks had a system set up where new replacements could be brought in to replace the daily casualties because the number was so small. Not to mention the fact that the Greeks were closer to their supply line and the logistics for feeding them were much easier than it was for the Persians. I imagine that after another week of failure and a couple hundred thousand casualties more, the Persians would probably have abandoned their invasion right there.
Goes to show how one traitor can make the difference between victory and defeat.
Oh, I also seem to remember that the Greeks killed two of Xerxes' brothers at Thermopylae. I bet that left an impression.
dpote
Member
Best post ever!
Dave
Shane333, you're correct. Although I am not positive of this, I believe that one of Xerxes' brothers was killed at Thermopylae, and the other was killed in the Salamis naval battle off the coast of Atticus. But I'm not sure...(?)
As you said, how interesting that one traitor, Ephialtes, changed the course of an extremely important battle. He almost changed the culture of the western world.
L.W.
As you said, how interesting that one traitor, Ephialtes, changed the course of an extremely important battle. He almost changed the culture of the western world.
L.W.
MrPeter
Member
I am so looking forward to seeing 300. I'm sure they're going to hollywoodize the crap out of it, but from what I have seen and read, this movie is going to be a work of art, while sticking to the original comic book scene by scene, which I haven't seen done properly yet.
PinnedAndRecessed
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It's a cliche; worn out and overused.
Cesiumsponge
Member
"300" is more like a fantasy take on the historical event. I saw creatures and weird stuff in the preview, but I will watch just for the classical lines themselves. It was also based off another Frank Miller graphic novel I believe, which was of course based off the actual event. Sin City was done great and the previews looked good for what it is but I am not sure if it is the same director. I don't expect a 100% transcript (the graphic novel itself wasn't) but it should be a good action flick at the very minimum.
Actually, Thermopylae isn't on a beach; it's a mountain pass linking an area/city-state (whose name) I can't remember, to Thessaly. But the pass leads out of the mountains to the sea. That's why control of it was so critical. Herodotus claimed it was only wide enough to permit wagons to travel through it single-file. Some well-regarded historians believe it may have been twice that wide at the time of the battle.
"Stretching", in total the 'Greek' army only numbered ~ 6,000 - 7,000. Most modern historians 'begrudgingly' accept Herodotus' account for this number. By the second (and last) day, this number had dwindled to ~1500, as the majority of the Greek forces had withdrawn.
Xerxes' attack forces at Thermopylae was not much larger than 10,000 (ten thousand) men at any one time. His entire army may have been larger-- more "realistic" numbers claim Xerxes' total army to be as little as ~200,000 men--but the numbers he committed to this battle were in the thousands only, this attack force never even approached 'hundreds' of thousands, much less a milliion. A million men wouldn't fit into the present-day pass. Two centuries later the powerhouse city-state of Carthage would only number ~300,000.
Modern historians doubt very much if Herodotus was anywhere near accurate in his claim that the Greeks faced a Persian army of 1- 2,000,000 (million) men. One of the biggest reasons most moderns disbelieve his account is supply and movement problems, the least of which would be potable water for such a force. (Consider the political favor a Greek storyteller like Herodotus would curry for inflating the account of such a last stand. Today he is regarded as a historical source, but by any and all accounts, his "history" was written ~50 years after the battle--and he started out as an teller of tales.)
In any case, Xerxes sent two forces against the Greek forces at separate times in a frontal assault; By both Herodotus' own account (and that of another Greek 'historian' Diodorus), each of the forces Xerxes' committed couldn't have been much more than 10,000 men--Herodotus says that after the Persians were repulsed in the first wave, Xerxes sent his best, 'The Immortals', against the Greeks as the second attack force. (Legend claims that this force functioned in more peaceful times as Xerxes' palace guard--his bodyguards, if you will.) They were called 'Immortal' because any casualty was replaced so that the number, 10,000, remained intact.
No offense to any whom I may have critiqued; this battle fascinated me enough to research it heavily with a couple Ancient Historians who can read the original Greek and Latin. I think the skewed numbers come from Hollywood (and of course, Herodotus).
PinnedandRecessed,
I'm with you.
"Stretching", in total the 'Greek' army only numbered ~ 6,000 - 7,000. Most modern historians 'begrudgingly' accept Herodotus' account for this number. By the second (and last) day, this number had dwindled to ~1500, as the majority of the Greek forces had withdrawn.
Xerxes' attack forces at Thermopylae was not much larger than 10,000 (ten thousand) men at any one time. His entire army may have been larger-- more "realistic" numbers claim Xerxes' total army to be as little as ~200,000 men--but the numbers he committed to this battle were in the thousands only, this attack force never even approached 'hundreds' of thousands, much less a milliion. A million men wouldn't fit into the present-day pass. Two centuries later the powerhouse city-state of Carthage would only number ~300,000.
Modern historians doubt very much if Herodotus was anywhere near accurate in his claim that the Greeks faced a Persian army of 1- 2,000,000 (million) men. One of the biggest reasons most moderns disbelieve his account is supply and movement problems, the least of which would be potable water for such a force. (Consider the political favor a Greek storyteller like Herodotus would curry for inflating the account of such a last stand. Today he is regarded as a historical source, but by any and all accounts, his "history" was written ~50 years after the battle--and he started out as an teller of tales.)
In any case, Xerxes sent two forces against the Greek forces at separate times in a frontal assault; By both Herodotus' own account (and that of another Greek 'historian' Diodorus), each of the forces Xerxes' committed couldn't have been much more than 10,000 men--Herodotus says that after the Persians were repulsed in the first wave, Xerxes sent his best, 'The Immortals', against the Greeks as the second attack force. (Legend claims that this force functioned in more peaceful times as Xerxes' palace guard--his bodyguards, if you will.) They were called 'Immortal' because any casualty was replaced so that the number, 10,000, remained intact.
No offense to any whom I may have critiqued; this battle fascinated me enough to research it heavily with a couple Ancient Historians who can read the original Greek and Latin. I think the skewed numbers come from Hollywood (and of course, Herodotus).
PinnedandRecessed,
I'm with you.
aaronrkelly
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Its a state of mind....
Cosmoline
Member
An actual mixed drink sounds like an interesting project. I'm thinking some mix of ouzo, honey mead and grappa.
AStone
Member
Skoal.
Dr. Dickie
Member
There was also another great line from that battle wasn't there? (whether actually said or not is irrelevant).
The Persians said that they would fill the sky with so many arrows that it would blot out the sun. To which the Spartans replied, "Then we will fight in the shade!"
As I said, whether true or not, you just gotta admire that kind of attitude.
Like General Anthony C. McAuliffe relpy to the Germans when asked to surrender during the Ardennes Offensive, "Nuts."
Now that is class
The Persians said that they would fill the sky with so many arrows that it would blot out the sun. To which the Spartans replied, "Then we will fight in the shade!"
As I said, whether true or not, you just gotta admire that kind of attitude.
Like General Anthony C. McAuliffe relpy to the Germans when asked to surrender during the Ardennes Offensive, "Nuts."
Now that is class
pacodelahoya
Member
Pinned and recessed,
Sort of like "Land of the free and home of the brave" eh.
Sort of like "Land of the free and home of the brave" eh.
Sodbuster
Member
Molon Labe. Whatever it is, however it is marginalized, it is one hell of a powerful idea. Joseph Stalin was afraid of ideas. I'm with you, pacodelahoya.
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