thatguy96786
Member
- Joined
- Dec 22, 2009
- Messages
- 24
Looking to by one of these in the future. What is the difference between a Russian AK-47 and a Romanian AK-47, besides the price? What should I really get?
What is really the difference between a Russian and a Romanian AK-47?
- Thread starter thatguy96786
- Start date
- Status
Rubber_Duck
Member
Are you a collector or a shooter?
Dreamcast270mhz
Member
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2010
- Messages
- 406
Well there is no Romanian gun bearing the AK-47 name, the original AK-47 from Russia has a milled receiver. All Romanian AKs are built on stamped receivers and are therefore lighter but less durable. All AK pattern nowadays are stamped. There are some milled receivers out there and they are generally more expensive and heavier but more accurate.
WASRs are a crapshoot, in case you don't know.
WASRs are a crapshoot, in case you don't know.
Buck Kramer
Member
- Joined
- Apr 17, 2009
- Messages
- 683
Russian as in a converted Saiga or a Russian Russian AK? And Rubber duck has a good question that needs to be answered first...
thatguy96786
Member
- Joined
- Dec 22, 2009
- Messages
- 24
Collector.
bigedp51
member
Quality, the Romanian don't have any QC inspectors they just have quotas.
(or the night shift is all Vampires and work with the lights out)
My Romanian WASR 10 below fired every time I pulled the trigger, I just didn't know where the bullets were going to go. I suspect something was flexing due to poor workmanship, loose rivets, etc. which effected the barrel.
The SKS is built like a tank and shoots where you point it.
Dreamcast270mhz
Member
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2010
- Messages
- 406
If you want to be a collector then you definitely don't want a Romanian. A good Arsenal will set you back $800 or more but is worth every penny
thatguy96786
Member
- Joined
- Dec 22, 2009
- Messages
- 24
To Dream, Do you know a place that gets rid of the Arsenals for $800? My local place has them for a little over $1000. I'm looking for wood furniture.
Dreamcast270mhz
Member
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2010
- Messages
- 406
I have seen used ones for sale in the 700-850 range. A new gun is a rip-off unless you talk the person below MSRP.
C-grunt
Member
Scottsdale Gun Club has SGL-21s for 699.
You could easily buy the Arsenal and replace the polymer furniture with wood. Not saying that's the best or most economical route, but it's an option. The basic rifle you're getting is good quality, made by Izhmash in Russia (with a few minor parts replaced as required by US law).
If your LGS is charging $1000 for an Arsenal, just order it online and do an FFL transfer. You can find them for sale online starting at $750.
If your LGS is charging $1000 for an Arsenal, just order it online and do an FFL transfer. You can find them for sale online starting at $750.
If I was collecting the gun to hang on a wall, I would choose a Romanian simply because it is about as close to looking like an original style AKM as one can get off the rack right now.
If I was choosing an AK for shooting purposes, I would select a Bulgarian without question.
I currently own an Egyptian Maadi simply because the kids like shooting it for fun.
It is about as accurate as an uncontrolled fire hose.
If I was choosing an AK for shooting purposes, I would select a Bulgarian without question.
I currently own an Egyptian Maadi simply because the kids like shooting it for fun.
It is about as accurate as an uncontrolled fire hose.
If you wanted to add or replace the wood furniture on an AK, you might want to consider the Tapco Timbersmith options: http://www.timbersmithusa.com/products/ak/index.php?act=viewCat&catId=2
Generally I'm not a big fan of Tapco products, but I've heard good things about these wood stocks and they look gorgeous. The red would look sharp on a collector piece.
Generally I'm not a big fan of Tapco products, but I've heard good things about these wood stocks and they look gorgeous. The red would look sharp on a collector piece.
I, nor anyone I know, pays MSP for new firearms. In an online world, you can easily find what the actual "street" cost for a weapon is, and negotiate accordingly. Just like new cars, very few people actually wind up paying MSRP. As for new guns being a "rip off".....not in the least. When i buy new, i know it hasn't been misused or abused by its previous owner. I know that if issues DO show up, most manufacturers are good about backing up their products. Theres also a reason some guns wind up on the used market....just plain inaccurate, unreliable, etc. You have zero recourse if you wind up buying a used gun with any issues, as most are sold "as is". I'm not against buying used, but to broadly state that "buying new is a ripoff" is wrong....it may be your opinion, but thats it....something so subjective cant be proven right or wrong, incorrect or correct. its just how you perceive things.
As for AKs, I have a WASR-10 that is accurate enough, is reliable and issue free, and does anything one could reasonably expect out of an Ak- style combat rifle, and at roughly 50% the cost of an Aresenal.
Sam Cade
Member
You got a bad one then. Any of the ones imported by STEYER were made on soviet equipment, with Russian oversight, in Cairo. They are as close to being a "real" soviet AKM as it gets.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Actually, no. The original AK-47 was designed with a stamped receiver, but the Soviet manufacturing tech wasn't quite up to producing them well, so when it went into production they reverted to milled steel technology. That design prevailed until about 1958, when the revised AKM was introduced with a new stamped steel receiver.
That's half-true. AKM pattern guns are lighter, but the durability of one over the other is a complete hypothetical. After over half a century of hard military use, AKMs are NOT coming apart or wearing out, in any appreciable numbers. It is easy enough to establish that the barrel will be shot out LONG ... VERY long ... before a stamped receiver is trash. It would not be unfair to say that no single shooter is ever going to wear out an AK of either design.
I've shot some 'very' accurate milled receiver AKs. (2" groups at 100 yds w/ surplus ammo) I've shot some AKMs that would hang right with them. Inconsistent value-priced ammo will hold down their accuracy to a greater degree than the inherent accuracy deficiencies of either platform. It would be great to see an exhaustive accuracy test of a selection of milled AKs vs. a selection of AKMs all using consistent, high-quality ammo ... but I've never heard of one.
Last edited:
JustinJ
Member
Collector, plinker, home defender, whatever, I say an Arsenal is a far better value than a Romanian. Primarily because the vast majority of what we call "Romanian" is a parts kit thrown together by bafoons. But even in the real AK world i've read that Romanian made AKs are far less quality than Bulgarian and Russian. The only way i could get my Draco to accept magazines with out knocking them in with a sledge hammer was to open up the magwell with a file.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
To be fair, though, that's pretty much a SOP for prepping any AK you get your hands on.
I'd much rather have it be a little snug when I get it than too loose. When I've built AKs, I've always had to final-fit the magwell. Should that be done by a major manufacturer before it leaves the factory? Yes, maybe, but not all AK mags are exactly the same thickness -- some will be looser than others and holding to a minimum isn't a bad idea.
IMHO, that's kind of like saying a mass-produced knife maker should mirror-hone the edge of my new folder. It's nice if they do, but not necessarily a huge fault if they leave the final tuning up to me, to make it the way I want it.
Not saying you're wrong to point out the issue, I just have a different view of whether I'd call it a fault or feature.
JustinJ
Member
"Should that be done by a major manufacturer before it leaves the factory? Yes, maybe, but not all AK mags are exactly the same thickness -- some will be looser than others and holding to a minimum isn't a bad idea."
Except not a single one of my AK mags fit and i have a wide variety of different ones from different countries. I'll have to double check but i think some of mine are even Romanian and I tried all of the mags i own. I've had other AKs that needed a little tuning for fit but nothing to this degree. A little too tight is defininetly better than too loose bc too loose can't really be fixed but this thing was ridiculously tight.
Except not a single one of my AK mags fit and i have a wide variety of different ones from different countries. I'll have to double check but i think some of mine are even Romanian and I tried all of the mags i own. I've had other AKs that needed a little tuning for fit but nothing to this degree. A little too tight is defininetly better than too loose bc too loose can't really be fixed but this thing was ridiculously tight.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Wow. Probably completely missed at the factory then.
benEzra
Moderator Emeritus
I think the big difference is probably the barrel. Milled civilian guns tend to be high-end and are fitted with top-grade barrels, so the proper comparison would be to high-end stamped guns with similar top-grade barrels. From what I've read, accuracy is about the same.
Both will probably shoot a bit better than an inexpensive Romanian with good ammunition, but you may not see a huge difference with cheap plinking fodder.
Whatever you get, replacing the slant brake with a good symmetrical flash suppressor (or a symmetrical compensator) will often tighten up accuracy a bit, since the slant brake tends to cause nutation and open up groups.
- Status
