What is the scoop on the Indian made muzzleloader pistols?

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Texas Moon

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Was over checking out Middlesex Traders site.
They show some nice looking pistols made in India.
Are they worth the money as a usable firearm or a headache to keep running?
 
I think most will tell you to avoid the Indian muzzleloaders.

Buy Pedersoli if you want a good muzzleloading pistol.
 
^^^^^^ What he said. I have bought two Pedersoli muzzle stuffer pistol kits and love every minute of experience both in building and shooting. My only comment is that the flint Kentucky Pistol kit I have does not have the proper geometry between the cock and the frizzen, but it still works.
 
Lumping Indian guns together is like lumping Belgian gun makers together. Some good some not so good.

There is a lot of hype and negativity against guns from India. I have three Indian made guns. 2 1842 Lancer pistol repros and a flint lock smooth bore pistol. The lancer pistols are percussion and work flawlessly. The flintlock works better than any Spanish or Italian flinter I ever shot.

All that being said, my lancer pistols came from Veteran Arms. The flinter, I don;t know because I bought it used.

Frankly, American guns are not independently proof tested. Some Indian guns are proof tested. As with anything, some makers peddle cheap crap,
 
As you can see there's a range of opinions. The safe bet is to avoid them until you have the experience to inspect them with some authority and even then to have them proofed in some fashion (or I guess do it yourself if you have a long enough piece of string...)

Things like fit and finish are all over the map. The wood is typical teak instead of walnut which may bug you.

Oh - and Veteran Arms USED TO proof everything, but now it's by special request and they charge $50 for it.
 
My experience with Middlesex Trading Indian made guns has been positive, both long guns and pistols. Yes they are a bit rough, especially the wood, but they do function when you pull the trigger.
 
Dixie currently has Pedersoli's Kentucky .45 flint pistol on sale for $335, completed. Points great although I'll need to file the front sight to bring the sights up some.
 
I was once considering getting one but I didn't because information on them everywhere I looked pertaining to their safety was scetchy at best from those who support and/or sell them and downright scary from those that don't like them.

There was a case where an Indian rifle loaded with blanks exploded during some sort of reenactment.

One problem is Indian laws are unreasonably strict concerning firearms so holes are not drilled to allow primers to work. The hole is either drilled by you or the dealer who it's sent to and then sold.

I can understand this reasoning unfortunately it also gives cover from lawsuites to Indian companies who knowingly sell unsafe ones since they are officially designated as non firing replicas.

Except for tidbits here and there, information on who or what factory is making them and specific methods of manufacturing as well as materials used is generally not provided to consumers by those who are selling them.

I find recommended maximum charges for large bore rifles and pistols (stuff like .60 or .69 caliber) to be insanely low and useless for any type of practical hunting or serious use which makes me even more wary of their safety.

I have even read claims by one seller that proof testing is a total waste of time. I do not agree with this.

Since I don't know who is manufacturing them I can't even make a judgement based on a manufacturer's reputation. Do they even bother to employ low cost modern methods of quality control to ensure some sort of safety or do they just figure selling it as a wall hanger shields them from any law suites. Honestly I don't know.
 
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We bought several muskets and pistols made in India when I was working for my County's history museum for use in various reenactments. We had an extensive collection of reproduction muskets for use in living history programs and I was the museum armorer in charge of maintaining them. We had several Brown Bess muskets made in Japan, Italy, and India. We also had flintlock pistols made in these three countries as well. We bought from TOW, Middlesex, Dixie, and Loyalist over the years.

With the Indian made guns, I did have to drill touch holes on some of them and do some fine-tuning on the locks. I also pulled their breech plugs, inspected and proof-tested them to my satisfaction. For the price, the Indian muskets and pistols were fine, and we could buy two for the price of one made in Italy. It is true that the fit and finish is rougher, but reenactor guns get a lot of hard use. It was hard to watch one of our $1000 Pedersoli guns get slammed on the ground and have a 300 pound reenactor fall on top of it!

I spent a lot of time repairing the Japanese muskets, mostly re-hardening their frizzens, tumblers, and sears. Broken stocks on the Italian guns happened occasionally, but we never had one of the Indian musket or pistol stocks crack or break. I believe that is because they are made of Teak which is strong and fibrous (but looks like it was carved from an old 2X4)

I have seen some junk muzzle loading "guns" from Spain, Japan, Belgium, Italy, and India so always bought from reputable dealers like the ones I mentioned.
 
everything ive ever seen of them, and heard of them.

its basically giving you the best representation of the true "oh crap, i just got drafted for the army" of what someone in 1776 got.

its not meant for presentation. its war contract. it functions.

quality is completely irrelevant. bear in mind.

most of the barrels from india are made from hydraulic tubing. cost effective and easy to work. the tubing they use has a tendency to exceed smokeless proof levels. 50 dollars should get you a new barrel that was designed for 5 tons of psi.
 
Are they worth the money as a usable firearm or a headache to keep running?
Click to expand...

It depends on the model, but MVTC and Loyalist Arms usually are "usable firearms".

IF you want to put it in a shadow box, with nice lighting, and display it on your mantle when not at the range, only buy Italian.

LD
 
Good evening,
As I read it, Loyalist Dave was indicating that the Italian make guns are finished well enough to be on display "when not at the range" On the opposite side of the coin, from what I have also read, the Indian make pistols are useable as intended just don't expect fine finishing on them.
 
Correct and thanks...hence the phrase as pointed out..."and display it on your mantle when not at the range". ;) They are very pretty, shooting pistols. "Only buy Italian" meant , for example, that although they work, a used, Spanish CVA, is usually not much to look upon.

LD
 
I'd love to get that double barrel flinter but at $500 its a bit much for a junker that will not work.
I've had several Italian guns and am happy with them.
The Spain made guns back in the 70's and 80's were a pain mostly.
I've never actually seen one of the Indian made guns in person.
 
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