What kind of guns do the bad guys carry?

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As much as I don't like the idea destruction of firearms I guess it helps keep firearm manufacturers in business.
What about auctioning them to FFLs? Wouldn't that help offset expenses of catching bad guys?
Most Departments have policies that don't allow them to profit from seized property.
I needed magazines for test firing guns that were recovered without magazines or the magazines were separated when placed into Evidence. I put in a letter requesting to get some before they were destroyed. After two years and a lot of red tape I was allowed to get some magazines. My Department was so worried that they would get back on the street and come back to hunt them. I painted all the spear shooting mags bright orange and haven't lost one in four years.
 
Still, being that most criminals aren't picking out their own firearms but rather are buying what's available on the streets, what is given to them, or what they borrowed form another family member. Only 10% of firearms used in crimes were picked out and purchased by criminals via flee market, gun shows, gun shop, etc... 7% of the guns used were guns the victim owned. The overwhelming majority where purchased via black market.
 
Most Departments have policies that don't allow them to profit from seized property.
I needed magazines for test firing guns that were recovered without magazines or the magazines were separated when placed into Evidence. I put in a letter requesting to get some before they were destroyed. After two years and a lot of red tape I was allowed to get some magazines. My Department was so worried that they would get back on the street and come back to hunt them. I painted all the spear shooting mags bright orange and haven't lost one in four years.

Gunny I just wanted to thank you for doing this thread. It's educational and gives us insight into an area I'm sure many of us had thought about.
 
Bad guys carry any guns they can get their hands on whether through black market, theft, etc... It's not like they're going down to their LGS to hand pick the one they want.

The bad guy might not shop but his girlfriend will. Go to a gun shop in a major metro city and you’ll notice a lot of face tatted pot reeking customers... that are 100% legal to buy.

Junkies would likely sell a gun if they stole it. Dealers and bangers can take a wad of $100s and buy whatever they want as long as baby momma gets a purse or some shoes out of the deal.
 
The bad guy might not shop but his girlfriend will. Go to a gun shop in a major metro city and you’ll notice a lot of face tatted pot reeking customers... that are 100% legal to buy.

Junkies would likely sell a gun if they stole it. Dealers and bangers can take a wad of $100s and buy whatever they want as long as baby momma gets a purse or some shoes out of the deal.

Sad but true. Seen it too many times my self.
 
According to this article and what I can find, Chicago has the highest rate on firearm confiscations. I think they'd be a better representation of what criminals are carrying. The majority of firearms that were confiscated were budget guns, and the top brand was S&W if you include wheel guns. Coming in second is Glock... What surprises me is that S&W, Glock, and then Ruger, in that order, sell the most handguns in the U.S. pretty much consistently year after year; however, Ruger pistols and revolvers aren't being carried as much.

https://www.thetrace.org/2016/01/chicago-crime-guns-chart/
 

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Go to a gun shop in a major metro city and you’ll notice a lot of face tatted pot reeking customers... that are 100% legal to buy.
I have a very good customer who is tattooed heavily but has a concealed weapon permit. He bought the gun from us, sometimes pawns the gun and always redeems it. Customers suffering from reefer-reek, as I call it, won't even get shown a gun.
"Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?"
If they smell like it, to me, that's prima facia evidence that they are users.
Basically, tattoos = legal, marijuana users = not legal.
I am both allowed and encouraged to turn down any gun deal in the store I think is smelling of overage herring.
 
The bad guy might not shop but his girlfriend will. Go to a gun shop in a major metro city and you’ll notice a lot of face tatted pot reeking customers... that are 100% legal to buy.

Junkies would likely sell a gun if they stole it. Dealers and bangers can take a wad of $100s and buy whatever they want as long as baby momma gets a purse or some shoes out of the deal.

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According to the Justice Dept., strawman like sales account for a small percentage. Stolen, blackmarket sales, purchased from a family member/friend, found, and borrowed are how the overwhelming majority of criminals are obtaining their firearms... I also strongly doubt that the majority of criminals are purchasing $500+ firearms.
 
I have a very good customer who is tattooed heavily but has a concealed weapon permit. He bought the gun from us, sometimes pawns the gun and always redeems it. Customers suffering from reefer-reek, as I call it, won't even get shown a gun.
"Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?"
If they smell like it, to me, that's prima facia evidence that they are users.
Basically, tattoos = legal, marijuana users = not legal.
I am both allowed and encouraged to turn down any gun deal in the store I think is smelling of overage herring.
My friend owns a Pawn & Gun Shop. My buddy that works there tells me that when the ones that reek the smell of marijuana. He will not sell them a gun. He lets them fill out a 4473 but doesn't sell them the gun.
He also gets several attempted straw purchases a week.
 
I must have misunderstood this passage: "Wachtel says one of the most common ways criminals get guns is through straw purchase sales. A straw purchase occurs when someone who may not legally acquire a firearm, or who wants to do so anonymously, has a companion buy it on their behalf."
 
I must have misunderstood this passage: "Wachtel says one of the most common ways criminals get guns is through straw purchase sales. A straw purchase occurs when someone who may not legally acquire a firearm, or who wants to do so anonymously, has a companion buy it on their behalf."
Not what the report says. I might be wrong being that I skimmed it.
 
Zoogster, You'er just a little off on your info

I don't see anything inaccurate I was saying. Bad guys are using exactly what law abiding citizens are, particularly the carry market. The time to crime of many guns means what was most popular some years ago will be the most common with criminals getting them second hand.
The types used by people for concealed carry with higher capacity are exactly what the bad guys want because they are capable and easy to conceal. As I said plenty of larger guns are also made use of with higher capacity because they obtain them during their criminal thefts robberies and burglaries, but you know they will prefer what is concealable and has high capacity and is good for being in a gun fight and winning against others with guns shooting back.
What info was innaccurate?
Glocks were one of the most common carry guns particularly a decade ago before a lot of manufacturers started making many models specifically for concealed carry, and are still quite popular. Being the most common handgun magazine type is likely a plus for criminals, but also is a strong selling point for many law abiding citizens too with many handguns or pistol caliber carbines that use glock magazines being purchased precisely because they use glock magazines.
Which is exactly what you would expect with a time to crime average of 9-10 years per the ATF.
A lot of guns popular about 7-10 years previous that are suited both for concealed carry and being in a gunfight with other armed individuals.
Giving some time after said thug or criminal group obtains it before it ends up in law enforcement possession linked to a crime which could be anything from 1-5 years.

Most common threads and people wanting guns are 'what gun does X best for the lowest cost'. With a smaller percent looking for the top quality first. Meaning the bad guys and the most common firearm owner are also buying the same thing. Not the top of the line, but reliable concealed carry pistols that will not be seen when worn with regular attire, suitable for being in a gun fight without running out of ammo before it is over.
So all you really see in the list is a regional snapshot of exactly what law abiding citizens preferred some years prior in the area they were obtained.

Exactly my point in the previous post. Criminals and law abiding citizens now seek firearms with almost identical features, as concealed carry did not used to be the primary driving force of handgun manufacturing and purchases, but now is. Going small and inexpensive used to mean .22, .25, .380, and often mass produced by inexpensive manufacturing processes less suited to more powerful calibers by companies that made mediocre firearms.
Today the market is flooded with similar dimension firearms with higher capacity and more effective calibers meeting exactly those same criteria built by better manufacturers, because those are the criteria and selling points to the concealed carry crowd. So what is a perfect gun to win a self defense gunfight, meaning first to win you have the gun with you, not someplace else because it was too big or uncomfortable to carry, and second it has enough power and rounds to get through the problem without the limiting factor being the tool, is exactly what the bad guys seek in a handgun too. Many bad guys are not going full scale war with eachother, that brings down a lot of heat and shuts down or interferes with their drug related business. Which is exactly why long guns often preferred for full offense and certainly still obtained in plenty of burglaries at a similar rate to handguns by thugs and organized crime, are still represented in very few murders a year. They are instead robbing others or defending themselves from robbery when the shooting starts and then takes place with the handguns they are carrying concealed.
 
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@GunnyUSMC
Gunny,
Thanks for running this thread as a public service.

Just out of curiosity, do you record whether a holster was seized with the firearm?

I seem to remember Mas Ayoob talking about the issue years ago that criminals typically did not use holsters and my state at least used to have a law that required anyone carrying a firearm outside of the home must use a holster or be charged with a misdemeanor.

I was wondering if that is still true that criminals avoid holsters or was that specific to a time and place now gone.
 
@GunnyUSMC
Gunny,
Thanks for running this thread as a public service.

Just out of curiosity, do you record whether a holster was seized with the firearm?

I seem to remember Mas Ayoob talking about the issue years ago that criminals typically did not use holsters and my state at least used to have a law that required anyone carrying a firearm outside of the home must use a holster or be charged with a misdemeanor.

I was wondering if that is still true that criminals avoid holsters or was that specific to a time and place now gone.
Most often they do not have holsters. They just tuck them in their waistband.
I don't see anything inaccurate I was saying. Bad guys are using exactly what law abiding citizens are, particularly the carry market. The time to crime of many guns means what was most popular some years ago will be the most common with criminals getting them second hand.
The types used by people for concealed carry with higher capacity are exactly what the bad guys want because they are capable and easy to conceal. As I said plenty of larger guns are also made use of with higher capacity because they obtain them during their criminal thefts robberies and burglaries, but you know they will prefer what is concealable and has high capacity and is good for being in a gun fight and winning against others with guns shooting back.
What info was innaccurate?
Glocks were one of the most common carry guns particularly a decade ago before a lot of manufacturers started making many models specifically for concealed carry, and are still quite popular. Being the most common handgun magazine type is likely a plus for criminals, but also is a strong selling point for many law abiding citizens too with many handguns or pistol caliber carbines that use glock magazines being purchased precisely because they use glock magazines.
Which is exactly what you would expect with a time to crime average of 9-10 years per the ATF.
A lot of guns popular about 7-10 years previous that are suited both for concealed carry and being in a gunfight with other armed individuals.
Giving some time after said thug or criminal group obtains it before it ends up in law enforcement possession linked to a crime which could be anything from 1-5 years.

Most common threads and people wanting guns are 'what gun does X best for the lowest cost'. With a smaller percent looking for the top quality first. Meaning the bad guys and the most common firearm owner are also buying the same thing. Not the top of the line, but reliable concealed carry pistols that will not be seen when worn with regular attire, suitable for being in a gun fight without running out of ammo before it is over.
So all you really see in the list is a regional snapshot of exactly what law abiding citizens preferred some years prior in the area they were obtained.

Exactly my point in the previous post. Criminals and law abiding citizens now seek firearms with almost identical features, as concealed carry did not used to be the primary driving force of handgun manufacturing and purchases, but now is. Going small and inexpensive used to mean .22, .25, .380, and often mass produced by inexpensive manufacturing processes less suited to more powerful calibers by companies that made mediocre firearms.
Today the market is flooded with similar dimension firearms with higher capacity and more effective calibers meeting exactly those same criteria built by better manufacturers, because those are the criteria and selling points to the concealed carry crowd. So what is a perfect gun to win a self defense gunfight, meaning first to win you have the gun with you, not someplace else because it was too big or uncomfortable to carry, and second it has enough power and rounds to get through the problem without the limiting factor being the tool, is exactly what the bad guys seek in a handgun too. Many bad guys are not going full scale war with eachother, that brings down a lot of heat and shuts down or interferes with their drug related business. Which is exactly why long guns often preferred for full offense and certainly still obtained in plenty of burglaries at a similar rate to handguns by thugs and organized crime, are still represented in very few murders a year. They are instead robbing others or defending themselves from robbery when the shooting starts and then takes place with the handguns they are carrying concealed.
I didn’t say that your info was wrong, just a little off.
You keep saying budget guns and concealable. Have you looked at the guns in the list.
The average guns picked up run from $300 to $600 Which are not what most would call budget guns. Most of the guns are not what most people consider concealable.
And when I say that they like high capacity magazines, I’m not talking about 15 and 17 round magazines. Glocks are popular because 32 and 50 round magazines are easy to get and really don’t cost that much.
Pro Mag makes 30 round magazines for the S&W SW and SD pistols and for Ruger.
Today I got in a Ruger P95 with a Pro Mag 30 round mag.
I would like to know where ATF gets their stats on guns because, they’re not asking any of the police departments in my area.
The guns I have listed are the guns that just my department takes of the streets. That’s just one city with around 600 officers.
I don’t have the revolvers, shotguns and some others due to the fact that they are not entered into NIBIN. But the majority of the guns we pick up are semi automatic handguns.
 
Basically backs up the fact that strawman and legal first person purchases aren't how criminals by large are obtaining guns... It's mostly budget guns they are using, and they're mostly obtained via black market.

upload_2019-10-17_7-5-8.jpeg

This says only 10% of them buy them in a store. But 1 out of 4 are purchased from an aquaintance aka a straw purchase. And 65% come from “the black market” which by their definition is just a guy who sells guns and drugs.

I would be that a clean gun would be preferable to a stolen one as well in case you get caught with it and have to give it to your non-felon brother to hold for a bit.
 
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This says only 10% of them buy them in a store. But 1 out of 4 are purchased from an aquaintance aka a straw purchase. And 65% come from “the black market” which by their definition is just a guy who sells guns and drugs.

I would be that a clean gun would be preferable to a stolen one as well in case you get caught with it and have to give it to your non-felon brother to hold for a bit.
Where are you seeing that? A strawman is when you give someone money in advance to go purchase a firearm for you, and not when you borrow, rent, are gifted, or buy a firearm from someone you know who already has one to sell. Even if we count the percentage of "Gifted/purchased for prisoner" and "Purchased/traded from family/friend", those percentages are low compared to how most criminals obtain their firearms overall.

Also, were are you getting the one out of four figure?
 
Where are you seeing that? A strawman is when you give someone money in advance to go purchase a firearm for you, and not when you borrow, rent, are gifted, or buy a firearm from someone you know who already has one to sell. Even if we count the percentage of "Gifted/purchased for prisoner" and "Purchased/traded from family/friend", those percentages are low compared to how most criminals obtain their firearms overall.

Also, were are you getting the one out of four figure?

There is no category for straw purchase. Maybe I am inferring “from individual” incorrectly as a straw purchase. 25% are obtained from “individual”. 25% is 1 out of 4.

However,
"Wachtel says one of the most common ways criminals get guns is through straw purchase sales. A straw purchase occurs when someone who may not legally acquire a firearm, or who wants to do so anonymously, has a companion buy it on their behalf."
 
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There is no category for straw purchase. Maybe I am inferring “from individual” incorrectly as a straw purchase.

However,
"Wachtel says one of the most common ways criminals get guns is through straw purchase sales. A straw purchase occurs when someone who may not legally acquire a firearm, or who wants to do so anonymously, has a companion buy it on their behalf."


If I was a prohibited person, getting a gun through straw purchase would be by far the easiest method to get a gun.
 
Just asking here... why are we trusting a survey answered by convicted criminals while they are serving their sentence?
 
Just asking here... why are we trusting a survey answered by convicted criminals while they are serving their sentence?

I agree 100% but I don’t know what else to go on. I can tell you my personal experience is that people will ask their family to buy a gun for them. I had a guy that i barely knew ask me to buy a gun for him. It is an easy way to get a gun.

I dont know how much a stolen handgun sells for but when a brand new Sigma is $279... seems like a no brainer if you give the purchaser a case of beer and a blunt as a thank you.
 
I have incredibly bad luck in comparison. I have never in my 76 years of life ever "found" a gun. Gunny seems to report some guns being found every so often. If I ever find a gun,........... can I turn it over to the police with the proviso that they return it to me if the owner is not found?????
There is a gun show in Cadillac this week end. I'll be sure to check the parking area for lost guns! :)
 
I've actually found a gun that BELONGED to the police.
When I was going to the University of Alabama to get my Master's Degree I was working nights cleaning the lot of the University Mall.
Once, when pulling the sweeper truck out of storage, I noticed something shiny on the ground behind the Radio Shack,
It was a gold badge in a protective holder - attached to a clip-on holster - with a Glock and extra magazine in it!
I went over to the Krispy Kreme - the nearest place that was open at that time of night - and called the police, told them what I found, and read out the badge number.
A patrolman dropped by a few minutes later and relieved me of my find. He appeared to be doing his best not to grin.
I'll bet that a certain detective is still getting ragged over that!
 
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