What Kind of Rifle Barrel Am I Looking For?

[The_Armed_Therapist]

Hello, All,

I'm trying to learn more about rifle barrels. I want my next purchase/project to be a bolt action rifle. I've been reading a lot about how accuracy suffers when the barrels heat up. Call me impatient, but I really want to minimize this. I've been shooting frequently at 200 yards lately, and would like to stretch that out a bit further. Within 200 yards, heated barrels don't seem to cause major problems for me; but if I want to go further, then I just want to make sure I'm doing what I can to minimize the effects of the heated barrel on accuracy.

In addition, I also want a barrel that will be resistant to the elements--or at least as much as is reasonable. While mostly a range toy, I would like to take this rifle hunting.

So my reading has taken me to two distinct barrel categories--heavy/bull barrels (less heating), and stainless steel barrels (less effected by elements). What I would like to know is whether one or both of these serve both purposes fairly well, or if there is a third option for which I'd ideally be looking. In short, what should I look for in a barrel that both minimizes heat, and will withstand the effects of frequent use?

Thanks!

EDIT: As far as other information goes, I'm looking at .30-06 and .308 for this project in a number of possible platforms--From basic Savage 10s/11s to Sako, and anything in between.

 

[HOOfan_1]

fluted stainless heavy barrel

 

[The_Armed_Therapist]

OK, then! I didn't know that existed. LOL... Do companies offer that out the door, or will I need to purchase another barrel with whatever I choose to get?

 

[Skylerbone]

If by "stretch" you mean 300 yds. or so I'd skip on the heavy bit if you really intend to hunt. Here's the rub; if you buy a rifle, purchase an aftermarket barrel, a target level scope and set it up for bench shooting, you won't have a rifle you'd want to hunt with. Even if you "cheap out" and just buy a varmint or bull barrel factory rifle it'll be much the same for hunting minus the accuracy.

If 5 rounds in 5 minutes, with 5 minutes between groups is an acceptable pace, a sporter will be fine.

 

[jim243]

OK, then! I didn't know that existed. LOL..

Just rung out my new MVP-Flex yesterday. It is a Medium Fluted Bull Barrel. It takes about 45 rounds to heat up the barrel to any degree. I do not know what they did to make this barrel, but I can fire a round, extract it from the chamber and put it right then in my hand and it is ice cold. Can't do that with any of my other rifles.

This one is in 5.56 and it also comes in 308.

Jim

And yes that is a AR-15 20 round mag in the rifle.

 

[jmr40]

A heavy barrel takes longer to get hot than a thinner barrel. It also takes longer to cool down after it gets hot. Fluting helps some, it also helps reduce weight some while giving some of the advantages of a heavier barrel.

I agree, a sporter weight barrel will probably be just fine for your intended purposes.

 

[HOOfan_1]

OK, then! I didn't know that existed. LOL... Do companies offer that out the door, or will I need to purchase another barrel with whatever I choose to get?

Sure.
The Remington Sendero and VS SF II
Savage VLP DBM, BVSS, BTCSS
Kimber 84 Varmint, Varmint Pro, Longmaster
Cooper makes them.

among others

 

[Ramone]

Savage 10BVSS:



Fluted, Heavy, Stainless.

Which seems to be out of production, but there is a 12 BVSS in .308 availible:

http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/12bvss

 

[Arizona_Mike]

In order or importance to avoid temp POI shift:
- Free floated
- Heavy profile as possible (heats up more slowly)
- Fluted (high surface area cools down faster) -- More important in an automatic. Not much of an issue in a bolt gun unless are looking to decimate entire towns of prairie dogs. The least bang for your buck.

Stainless barrels tend to be a little more uniform metallurgically and are a little better for heat. Most importantly, most high accuracy barrels are stainless anyway since it is softer and easier t

Now for long barrel life, the last part of your question, a chromoly steel hammer forged barrel, even chrome lined or hot salt nitrided, is going to have the longest life but probably not give you "match grade" accuracy. Neither the .308 or .30-06 are barrel burners, so I wouldn't worry about it and go with stainless.

Mike

 

[1911 guy]

Factory fluted barrel. This increases the surface area of the barrel and therefor aids in heat loss. Increasing surface area relative to internal diameter also aids in stiffness, which results in more consistent harmonics when developing a handload or choosing the most accurate factory load. As an added bonus, it also weighs less than a similar diameter unfluted barrel.

 

[Arizona_Mike]

Factory fluted barrel. This increases the surface area of the barrel and therefor aids in heat loss. Increasing surface area relative to internal diameter also aids in stiffness, which results in more consistent harmonics when developing a handload or choosing the most accurate factory load. As an added bonus, it also weighs less than a similar diameter unfluted barrel.

Just to be clear. A fluted barrel is stiffer than a non-fluted barrel of the same weight. Adding flutes to a barrel of a given diameter reduces stiffness but less than achieving the same weight loss with a smaller diameter.

Mike

 

[The_Armed_Therapist]

OK, so I looked up some of the heavier-barreled rifles out there. Don't make fun of me for this, but I'm surprised

just

how heavy those rifles are. HAHAHA... I think that if this rifle exceeds the weight of my PTR91, then I've gone overboard with it. I WOULD like to hunt with it, and hike with it. A fluted barrel might reduce enough weight for my purposes, but it seems to exceed the $$$ that I'm comfortable paying at this point for this rifle.

So let me focus this a bit more. Stainless barrels are more resistant to wear. (Does everyone agree with that?) I have found conflicting information on the net with regards to accuracy and "heating up" differences between the two. Are there any differences? Theoretical knowledge or practical experience would be welcomed.

 

[The_Armed_Therapist]

Ramone, that Savage 12 sure is purdy! Even though it's 10 lbs, I'll still need to consider it.

 

[HOOfan_1]

. Stainless barrels are more resistant to wear.

more resistant to oxidation than blued carbon steel barrels.

Resistant to wear from shooting them? No..they are usually less resistant because stainless steel is softer.

A nitrided barrel should be more resistant to wear and more resistant to corrosion.

You really aren't going to get match grade accuracy, hundreds of thousands of rounds barrel life and a light weight rifle all in the same package.

 

[The_Armed_Therapist]

You really aren't going to get match grade accuracy, hundreds of thousands of rounds barrel life and a light weight rifle all in the same package.

Yeah, I'm realizing that.

I don't need a longer-than-usual barrel life, I don't think. When I mentioned stainless, I was referring mostly to rust and resistance to less-than-ideal external conditions.

As far as accuracy, I'm really looking for Vanguard/Tikka accuracy or less. I figure they guarantee under 1MOA, so why settle for less?

As far as weight--under 10 pounds. I don't want a "benchrest/competition" rifle, but not necessarily just a standard lightweight hunting rifle.

It's sounding like just getting a stainless version of the rifles that interest me is my best bet. The heavy barrels will just make it too heavy for hiking/hunting, and the fluted ones seem to be too pricey. I'll learn to be more patient and allow the rifle to cool.

 

[Arizona_Mike]

I don't think there is a significant difference between how stainless distorts with heat. Even if there was it would be swamped by the tendency of stainless barrels to be more accurate (because it is softer and more machinable).

There are very high quality hammer forged or button rifled barrels, some are even hand lapped afterward. When you look into it you will find the applications are military service or barrel burner overbore cartridges with a reputation for throat erosion like Weatherby Magnums.

For example, Krieger and Criterion Barrels are made in the same shop by the same company and people. Krieger are cut riflings, Criterion are button rifled. Krieger bore and chamber dimensions are set in the middle of spec for best accuracy when new and Criterion are set at the tight end of spec so they have the longest accurate life. The Criterion process was developed to make factory barrels for Weatherby.

The cartridges you indicated you are interested in are not at all barrel burners. I would buy the best "match grade" air-gauged, stainless, cut rifling barrel you can afford. Bonus points for hand lapping vs. machine honing, cryogenics treated blank, etc. I think it will last long enough and even if you eventually have to replace it, the cost will still be a fraction of the cost of the ammo expended.

Mike

 

[Art Eatman]

I had a very enjoyable time with a sporter-weight barreled .223 on prairie dogs to 300 yards. I didn't shoot fast enough such that the barrel got hot enough to burn my hand, but it got hot. Even so, no trouble making hits.

I've never hunted in precip more than a mist or drizzle, but I've never had any rust problems with blued steel or with warping of a stock.

 

[Skylerbone]

If I might offer a specific suggestion, a Winchester Ultimate Shadow for what you're describing or a Tikka T3, either for under $700.

If neither really floats your boat, buy a heavy barrel bench gun used and a new Handi Rifle or Savage Axis with a Bushnell for hunting. If you never get around to both activities, you can sell the one that gets no use without being out too much.

 

[Zippidydoodah]

Savage used to make a 25-06 police tactical with 26" heavy b l that is a tack driver. That was replaced by their 308 tactical probably a better choice.

 

[Cee Zee]

As far as weight--under 10 pounds. I don't want a "benchrest/competition" rifle, but not necessarily just a standard lightweight hunting rifle.

In between those two weight classes are the varmint barrels. You won't have a 25 lb. rifle that is made for shooting accurately and nothing else but you will have more resistance to heat than a sporter barrel has. What you should buy depends on what you want to do with your rifle. It gets hard to lug a 12 lb. rifle around the woods even for those who are young and in good physical condition. It can be done but for hunting you won't likely need to shoot a lot really quick. So a sporter barrel might be best. OTOH if you want to sit down and wipe out a p'dog colony a varmint rifle barrel comes in handy. But like others have said it takes longer to heat one up and it takes longer for one to cool down. I have a varmint gun (Savage 12 LRPV) that takes quite a few rounds before it starts to have accuracy issues. I don't like to get it that hot though because that's a lot of heat and I don't want to cause problems that won't solve themselves by the rifle cooling down. That rifle is a .223 so it isn't going to heat up as fast as a .338 or whatever. All these things factor into what would be the best rifle for you.

I enjoy plinking so I picked a smaller caliber with a heavy barrel so I could shoot a lot without having heat issues. I generally take more than one gun to the range though so I can shoot something else if I start to overheat my Savage. Mostly I bought the gun to control coyotes but then I moved from the area I was in to an area where the surrounding population shooting is more of a concern as far as shooting coyotes goes. I've still had some chances to shoot at coyotes but they would have been too close to a line where a ricochet could mean serious problems.

But again I really like to plink at 400-500 yards just because I like the idea of being able to reach out with a weapon to that distance and knock something down. I wouldn't hunt anything large with a .223 of course but coyotes are another story. I would hunt them out to about 300-400 yards with the .223 I have. If I want to go farther I'll use my 110 in 30.06.

So back to the subject, I'd decide how much shooting I wanted to do and what caliber of rifle would work ok for me to shoot that amount. I made my choices and I'm happy with them. The one thing that solves all the issues is of course to buy guns for whatever kind of shooting you want so you'll have one of each. You should see me just trying to decide which rimfire rifle to use for a particular purpose. There are lots of rifles in the world.

 

[The_Armed_Therapist]

Thanks for the help, guys.

I'm really liking the Varmint rifle products that are available. I guess my only issue is that they don't come in .30-06. I like .308, too, but was really hoping I could stick with it.

So I guess I'm just leaning towards a stainless steel version of the Vanguard, Tikka, Savage, etc. A combination of doing what I can to minimize heat (bedding, free-floating, etc.) and becoming more patient is probably my best bet. Still will consider the varmints, though.

I have another, relatively unrelated, question... How would adding iron sights to one of these things affect it? I'm assuming it's doable--although drilling a brand new stainless barrel seems questionable--but is this an acceptable idea, or is it not a good idea?

 

[Skylerbone]

TAT, I've hunted in pretty miserable conditions from 85 degrees and humid to sub-zero and snowing. The only rust I've ever gotten was the year I wrapped my blued muzzleloader in cloth grip tape, similar to an Ace Bandage. It was raining that day, the gun had been wiped of oil before application and it rusted within hours. Never a problem with any other blued firearm before or since.

Somewhat related, there is an ongoing thread testing products and several have endured weeks without visible change after saltwater misting and natural exposure. Link: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=751408 I don't feel limiting choices to SS models only is a must but that will be your call.

If a rifle is designed to shoot irons it should be set up differently than a clean model meant to be scoped so without an adjustable cheek rest or an aftermarket one installed you're better off choosing based on your most likely scenario, scope or sights. That was the reason for suggesting a pair of rifles as many hunting opportunities require shots within 200 yds where absolute accuracy is often unnecessary.

 

[The_Armed_Therapist]

TAT, I've hunted in pretty miserable conditions from 85 degrees and humid to sub-zero and snowing. The only rust I've ever gotten was the year I wrapped my blued muzzleloader in cloth grip tape, similar to an Ace Bandage. It was raining that day, the gun had been wiped of oil before application and it rusted within hours. Never a problem with any other blued firearm before or since.

Somewhat related, there is an ongoing thread testing products and several have endured weeks without visible change after saltwater misting and natural exposure. Link: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=751408 I don't feel limiting choices to SS models only is a must but that will be your call.

If a rifle is designed to shoot irons it should be set up differently than a clean model meant to be scoped so without an adjustable cheek rest or an aftermarket one installed you're better off choosing based on your most likely scenario, scope or sights. That was the reason for suggesting a pair of rifles as many hunting opportunities require shots within 200 yds where absolute accuracy is often unnecessary.

Thank you!