What make is this rifle?

[Another_Kelley]

A family member inherited this thing along with several others last year and is just now getting around to shooting a few of them...

Action has minimal markings. Only thing that seems easily identifiable is the serial. No caliber stamped on the barrel. Calipers placed inside the muzzle indicate it's a 30 cal. Chambers and easily extracts a sized piece of .308 brass. Are there other 30 cal cartridges that would also chamber a 308 case? Thanks for help!

 

[mdThanatos]

Looks to be a bubba'd Japanese Arisaka. I am probably wrong, but a Type 38 variant would be my guess.

 

[Jim Watson]

It is a heavily sporterized Japanese Arisaka Type 38.
Nothing left of the IJA rifle except the action and trigger guard.
New barrel in .308 (vs 6.5), bolt handle bent to clear scope, drilled and tapped for scope mount - Redfield JR, maybe - sporter stock.
Retains the Mum, a collector is crying.

 

[kBob]

yep former 6.5 type 38.

nicely done from the looks of it. I do wonder what scope mount fits the ground away clip guide and D&T there and the two D&T holes on the forward receiver ring, one right through that afore mentioned Mum.

Keep in mind that when that work was likely done 6.5 "Jap" ammo was basically not to be found. The 7.7 type 99 could be fed with .30-06 brass doctored minorly and .303 enfield bullets. That rifle Uncle Burt brought back from the "Filler Peens" and got tired of when he could not find ammo and gave to his teen aged nephew was good for two things to nephew, hanging on the wall and going ooh and ah over, or turning into a usable hunting rifle.

let's not curse our forebearers for making something that was useful to them.

-kBob

 

[Another_Kelley]

Much appreciated fellas... Still curious if it's safe to assume, based on the bore diameter and the fact that it'll chamber piece of .308 brass, that it is in fact a .308WIN?

I do wonder what scope mount fits the ground away clip guide and D&T there and the two D&T holes on the forward receiver ring, one right through that afore mentioned Mum.

It did have a scope mounted... removed it to get a better look at the receiver.

 

[someguy2800]

yep, heavily sporterized arisaka. They are good strong actions. The little crest symbol on the front of the receiver is the Imperial crest. The Japanese ground them off before surrendering them so its pretty rare to find one intact like yours. It was probably a battlefield souvenir. If you look up the markings on the left side of the receiver you can find the manufacturing date and location.

 

[Offfhand]

Much appreciated fellas... Still curious if it's safe to assume, based on the bore diameter and the fact that it'll chamber piece of .308 brass, that it is in fact a .308WIN?

A .308 case will fit in chambers of dozens of other calibers. So don't assume your rifle is safe to fire with a .308 Win. cartridge.

 

[Merle1]

American Derringer

Intercontinental Arms Dakota

Virginian Dragoon

I've never seen or heard of any other rifle makers other than Marlin and Henry who have made a .41 other than a few TC Carbines barrels that were 16.5" and made for the TC Collector's Association....I have one.

A .308 case will fit in chambers of dozens of other calibers. So don't assume your rifle is safe to fire with a .308 Win. cartridge.

yes indeed - some would be safe to fire, but others could become a hand grenade.....

a chamber casting is the only way to know for sure.

 

[MrCleanOK]

Measure a chamber casting to determine the caliber. Guessing could be potentially dangerous.

 

[Slamfire]

That is most likely a war time capture Japanese rifle receiver. Used to be a war time capture rifle. After the war the Japanese ground off the crests of surrender rifles, as my Dad brought back two from an arms depot in Tokyo Bay in Feb 1946. He said the Japanese had ground the crests. But, and this blew my mind, Sammy, our last WW2 veteran, told me that when his troop ship arrived in San Pedro Harbor, he had to get in line and have the crest of his Japanese rifles ground off! Why we were grinding off crests off captured Japanese rifles on US soil is totally beyond me. All Sammy could say "we had an agreement with the Emperor".

I believe the original owner decided to make a sporter out of the rifle. It would have made sense as 6.5 and 7.7 Japanese ammunition was non existent and making it from 30-06 cases was dangerous. And then, it was his and he captured it and brought it back from half a world away. Might as well make use of it given all the trouble in getting the thing back.

 

[Buckeye63]

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/strongest-action-arisaka.3994/

Here is a old thread about the Arisaka
Its a stout action

 

[Rob Starline]

Either take to a gunsmith or get some headspace gauges

 

[Dave DeLaurant]

FWIW, on closer inspection of the photo, the mum is defaced with an 'O' punch. That may serve as a clue to help trace the history of the action.

Were this mine, I'd do a full cerrosafe chamber cast to be sure what I had. Someone spent real money on the sporterization, and that may have extended to a rebarrel job.

 

[Merle1]

FWIW, on closer inspection of the photo, the mum is defaced with an 'O' punch. That may a clue to help trace the history of the action.

Were this mine, I'd do a full cerrosafe chamber cast to be sure what I had. Someone spent real money on the sporterization, and that may have extended to a rebarrel job.

for some reason, the mums on a few rifles were "defaced" by striking out some portion - perhaps it was a matter of time available at that command?

 

[Browning]

FWIW, on closer inspection of the photo, the mum is defaced with an 'O' punch. That may serve as a clue to help trace the history of the action.

He just took off the scope and rings.

I’m guessing the mount left a mark.

 

[CraigC]

Oooh, nice Beuhler mount!

 

[tark]

If a 308 round will chamber in the gun it is no longer a 6.5 X 50 Japanese barrel. Will the bullet end of a loaded 308 round almost enter the muzzle? Actually that barrel is not an Arisaka barrel at all, the contour is all wrong. It is entirely possible that the gun was re-barreled to a 308. This makes a perfect conversion. The action is more than strong enough, the round fits perfectly into the mag and very little or no modification to the bolt face would be needed.

However, gunsmiths who do this kind of work invariably stamp the caliber somewhere on the barrel. Apparently, your gun wasn't.

making it from 30-06 cases was dangerous. A

Not always. It depends on the Arisaka and how sloppy the chamber is. It the chamber is sized like it should be, making brass out of 06 cases works just fine. I have done it for years and gotten many re-loads from the brass. An oversized chamber, and there are plenty of those, presents the obvious problem. You usually find those on the later guns

 

[Dave DeLaurant]

for some reason, the mums on a few rifles were "defaced" by striking out some portion - perhaps it was a matter of time available at that command?

There seems to be more lore about this than solid data. Defacing with a punch appears to have been done on at least some occasions by Japanese arsenals when transferring rifles from Imperial ownership -- there is an interesting discussion available here: https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/206923-british-contract-arisaka/

One contributor included a photo with an almost identical pattern of defacement:

He just took off the scope and rings.
I’m guessing the mount left a mark.

The mount did indeed leave a mark, but the only one I'm seeing is on the rear bridge rather than the receiver ring.

 

[theotherwaldo]

I've seen a number of Type 38s that had mums that were defaced this way when they were transferred to a school or training facility... .

 

[funnelcake]

As noted, chamber-cast + I'd get at least the correct Field Gauge once caliber is determined. I had a conversion back in the day that turned out to be 6.5 x .257 Roberts & after figuring that out, closed on a Field Gauge. Wall Hanger...

 

[caribou]

The crest was removed post war, in Japan. This was by order of the US Military occupation.
Most rifles captured during the war and brought home were not ground or defaced, but maybe those that landed home post war had a few done.
Transferred to schools or decommissioned rifles had 3 concentric circles struck over the Chrysanthemum.

Are you sure its not a Type 99 Arisaka?
The Type 99's 7.7 chamber will take a .308 into the chamber and with some neck/throat relief, a 30-06 can be chambered and fired.
The 6.5 chamber of the Type 38 wont take a .308 , but I could try one just to see

 

[Dave DeLaurant]

Are you sure its not a Type 99 Arisaka?

There is an easy trick for distinguishing the Types 38 and 99 at a glance by their receiver markings -- without knowing any Japanese. The rifles generally have three characters or Kanji stamped on the receiver. The first character 式 (appearing on the right or bottom, depending on orientation) means type or model, and the other two are Japanese numerals. With "99" the same character is used twice 九九 , while "38" 三ハ uses two different characters.

Also, numerals 1-3 are easy to remember because they are just horizontal hashmarks.

 

[Shanghai McCoy]

^^^
I am truly in awe of the knowledge that members here on THR have.
And I am also impressed that Dave has Kanji keys on his computer...

 

[caribou]

Thanx Dave D!

 

[tark]

An even easier way to tell the two apart is the number of gas escape vent holes in the receiver. Type 38 has two , the 99, only one.