What would you like to see happen to Colt?

[Lycidas Janwor]

Colt needs to file bankruptcy and liquidate all its current assets (to pay off debt). It then needs new ownership, complete restructuring and a corporate move to a business friendly state like TX. Then it needs to retool and bring in a new workforce and managment which will cost $.

My recommendation: start making ammo. You gotta retool anyway so get into ammo production which will give you immediate cash flow.

The AR market is totally saturated and undervalued. Everyone and their grandmother is making a freaking AR platform rifle. My other reccomendation is to contract out the Colt badging to other AR manufacturers so that they can claim they are making a "Colt" and put the colt stamp on their AR stuff and then pay you for the right to use the Colt name. For example, if DPMS or PSA wants to sell "colt" ARs, let them. They just have to pay Colt to use the Colt name. Again, this is immediate cash flow for Colt.

Finally, I'd pick a pistol to start manufacturing immediately, the good ole Colt 1911. Making a pistol costs less than making a rifle. Make an excellent quality 1911 with the Colt name. Once there is cash flow from this, then start expanding into other gun platforms.

 

[Old Fuff]

In the past Colt (and for that matter, S&W) have "branded" ammunition and various accessory items (knives, holsters/cleaning/lubrication products, clothing, etc.) none of which have been outstanding sellers. It seems that their brand doesn't carry far beyond core products, but it does add some income. This however, won't pull Colt out of trouble.

If they can't make money in a super-heated boom market (and they didn't) they aren't going to do better if or when things slack off. The only thing they have left to sell is the name "Colt," and various patents and trade marks. Even those no longer have the value they once did.

Yes, it's really sad. :banghead:

 

[RustyShackelford]

S&W.....

Smith and Wesson had a small chain of retail stores that hawked clothes, coasters & BBQ sauce . This was in the go-go 1990s.
That was a mistake IMO.

Colt may market their brand or logo but people really don't know(or care) about the company.

 

[Kynoch]

In the past Colt (and for that matter, S&W) have "branded" ammunition and various accessory items (knives, holsters/cleaning/lubrication products, clothing, etc.) none of which have been outstanding sellers. It seems that their brand doesn't carry far beyond core products, but it does add some income. This however, won't pull Colt out of trouble.

If they can't make money in a super-heated boom market (and they didn't) they aren't going to do better if or when things slack off. The only thing they have left to sell is the name "Colt," and various patents and trade marks. Even those no longer have the value they once did.

Yes, it's really sad.

I'm sure they did from an operating standpoint. I suspect their margins are quite good. However, they were not enough to service their absurdly high debt load.

 

[Lycidas Janwor]

I'm talking about Colt actually becoming an ammo manufacturer (like Remington) and then letting other AR builders use the Colt name on their rifles, but pay Colt a fee for using the name. As for badging other stuff like coffee mugs and knives with Colt badging, that is not what I'm suggesting.

 

[Kynoch]

If no American company buys them out, then European and Chinese investors are just waiting to scoop them up. They are on a string ready to break. It could be before the year ends . Now 2015 looks bleak as well.

Like who? I suspect one prerequisite for making Colt a success (right behind acquiring its assets for a reasonable price) is having a bonafide manufacturer as the acquirer.

 

[george burns]

Guys something is happening, check out the price of a new Govt model
http://www.slickguns.com/product/colt-1991-government-45acp-bl-5-76949

 

[Kynoch]

I'm talking about Colt actually becoming an ammo manufacturer (like Remington) and then letting other AR builders use the Colt name on their rifles, but pay Colt a fee for using the name. As for badging other stuff like coffee mugs and knives with Colt badging, that is not what I'm suggesting.

Why would Colt leave a market they obviously know quite a bit about and get into a hyper-competitive market they have never been in before? A market that is destined to ramp down in the coming quarters?

 

[Kynoch]

***IF*** Cerebus/Freedom Group/Remington had done a good job in acquiring and managing the firearms conglomerate they built, I think Colt would have been a very good fit.

They already have the production capability to built AR15 platform rifles. There's little overlap with the M1911/SA revolver/DA revolver/.22 handgun market.

Sadly however they have not done a good job and if they did buy Colt I suspect they would pay too much for it and they would buy it with Colt's problems intact.

Still, if the price is low enough, I suspect Remington would bid.

 

[Lycidas Janwor]

Why would Colt leave a market they obviously know quite a bit about and get into a hyper-competitive market they have never been in before? A market that is destined to ramp down in the coming quarters?

I'm not saying they leave gun building altogether. Also, my understanding is that it's actually more difficult to obtain federal permission to make ammo and since Colt already works with the feds, getting licensed to build ammo might be easier because they are already an arms manufacturer for the federal gov. That being said, I think there are less ammo makers than gun makers.

Ammo will always be needed. IMHO, it's a much more stable market.

 

[larryh1108]

Sell their pistol name/rights to Kimber who can put out a nice "pony".
Sell the military rifle names/rights to DD.

Shut down the rest. The Colt name will live on and the Colt operation, which is a folley, will close down.

 

[Kynoch]

Sell their pistol name/rights to Kimber who can put out a nice "pony".
Sell the military rifle names/rights to DD.

Shut down the rest. The Colt name will live on and the Colt operation, which is a folley, will close down.

Sell the M4 name/rights to the Department of Defense? The name is already in the public domain and the taxpayers already own the design.

It's interesting that Kimber could likely charge 15-25% more for each gun they produce if they could stamp "Colt" on it.

 

[nathan]

Good ole Century Arms International can be a good savior for Colt . They have been importers and builders at the same time . If they can own the Colt tooling , then they can do anything.

 

[B!ngoFuelUSN]

Thanks for spelling this out USAF. Surely the pendulum that describes union behavior has swung once or twice in my lifetime. There surely have been times and places where unions, and union workers have created an anti-company and inefficient environment for management, shareholders and ultimately the union workers themselves.
But that era is principally gone today if only because inefficiency and absurdly restrictive rules, that were ultimately agreed to by management BTW, have reduced economic opportunity for union workers across the country thus affecting their bargaining position and behaviors.
What seems to be lost by a few on this thread is the ability to do the thought experiment of how workers would have been treated, how pay scales would be substandard, now benefits would be non-existent, how there would be no middle-class, if unions did not exist in the early/mid last century.
And one could argue that the fall from grace of unions, the breaking of union control by the Walmarts, Honda and other big companies is a contributor to the dramatic weakening of the middle class today.
Now, back to Colt!
B

I find that union blaming is still very easy for most
non union employees. Unions, UAW in particular (and for the life of me I don't understand why the UAW was involved with Colt) has restructured their policies to be more favorable to corporations. There was a long time where unions were pretty useless, and got lazy, fat and bored, which turned them corrupt. Them being the union management, not the rank and file worker (although they do exists, too). Long gone are the days of the 50 year old janitor making $40 an hour because he started at the company at 15 years old. Wage caps exist, although still a bit high for unskilled labor.

In my own company, a UAW shop, management is horrendous and I sometimes wonder how they keep the doors open. Management loses contracts, not the union. Management squanders capitol on frivolous nonsense to impress corporate, not the union. The union exists to protect the workers from heartless corporatists who would still walk away with fat bonuses after running the company into the ground. If the union somehow lost a contract worth 30% of their annual revenue changes would be made immediately. Management does it, they get a slap on the wrist from corporate and infused with gobs of cash to keep the doors open (and lay off a few dozen union employees to boot). Tough trade off, I know.

Anyway, yeah, blame the union if you must, and be thankful you live in a state and work for a company where you can be fired at will for idiotic reasons like 'personality differences.'

I've worked for companies run by idiots as a non union labor, and there was always the shadow looming over. Now that I'm working for a union shop, that fear isn't there, and I actually look forward to going to work. Still work for a company run by idiots, though.

But anyhow, I doubt the union had much, if anything, to due with the latest down fall of Colt.

 

[rhinoh]

Sell the M4 name/rights to the Department of Defense?

He said DD not DoD.
I took that to mean Daniel Defense..

 

[larryh1108]

Sell the M4 name/rights to the Department of Defense? The name is already in the public domain and the taxpayers already own the design.

The DD I was referring to is Daniel Defense, who already makes a quality rifle. Put a pony on a lineup and you have the name on a quality piece.

 

[wally]

I'd like to see happen to Colt as happened to S&W after they got new owners -- new and popular products at competitive prices with great availability and fantastic customer service and support.

 

[<*(((><]

I would like to see Keltec merge with Colt, a merging of vision and manufacturing experience. I really like Keltec pushing the envelope on what firearms can be but their QC and Production is lacking. Keltec could really benefit from experienced workers and the equipment and manufacturing processes of Colt.

 

[RustyShackelford]

Colt DoD, M4....

I think Colt or Colt Defense took the federal government/DoD to court over the "name" M4 but was unsuccessful.
The DoD & military said Colt didn't own or have exclusive rights to the terms M16, M4, AR etc.
I'm not sure how the civil actions turned out but Colt didn't get full rights to the brands/names.

 

[Kynoch]

The DD I was referring to is Daniel Defense, who already makes a quality rifle. Put a pony on a lineup and you have the name on a quality piece.

"DD" doesn't have the resources to purchase Colt.

 

[Kynoch]

I'd like to see happen to Colt as happened to S&W after they got new owners -- new and popular products at competitive prices with great availability and fantastic customer service and support.

Interesting comparison, but big differences.

S&W, even when it was owned by Bangor Punta, always seemed to invest in PP&E. It also never turned its back on a specific market. Most of all, leeches didn't systematically suck the blood out of S&W and leave it with insurmountable debt.

 

[Kynoch]

I would like to see Keltec merge with Colt, a merging of vision and manufacturing experience. I really like Keltec pushing the envelope on what firearms can be but their QC and Production is lacking. Keltec could really benefit from experienced workers and the equipment and manufacturing processes of Colt.

Let's see...

Both Kel-Tec and Colt suck at planning and manufacturing it would seem. Colt has long had a hostile, unionized workforce running largely antiquated machinery. George Kelgren is most certainly a talented designer but some of his products are rather questionable.

Colt's assets need to be acquired by a well heeled and experienced manufacturer of firearms. I'd have to bet on Remington or FN.

 

[ForumSurfer]

I'd like to see them turn their situation around. They have problems in management.

Ruger reached out and queried shooters about what they want in a 1911. They gave us the sr1911 as their sole production 1911 and it sold like hotcakes.

Colt did the same thing and came up with the Colt Concealed Carry Government. Only it was available as a limited production gun through Talo.

Someone was listening, they just failed to deliver products we wanted.

One thing I don't want to see is a slip in quality. I have a colt series 70 repro and rail gun, both current production and really well fit and finished for the money.

 

[RustyShackelford]

Big mistake....

The "big mistake" in my view was when Colt & the West Hartford CT plant let the skilled labor force/trained tool workers-machinists/engineers trail off or retire rather than plan for new Colt staff or laborers to replace them.
Colt could have been widely known for the Pythons, D/Det Special .38spl/Anaconda .44/etc as well as the popular 1911a1 .45acp models.
Colt tucked their tail & let the anti-gunners & handgun control crowd scare them off.

I'm sure many US gun owners would still purchase Colt Pythons or a D series .38spl snub well into the 1990s or early 2000s.
Colt just didn't or wouldn't make the efforts.

 

[blarby]

Larry the Liquidator will be swinging through soon.

Colts assets and contracts do not in any way shape or form equal the massive amount of debt incurred through leveraged "takeouts".

Its done, sadly.

Even if they could magically teleport to a "guns-r-us" friendly state, balance sheets need to balance, and this one certainly doesn't.

Ammo is not a bad idea, but thats delaying the inevitable- its not a solution. Even the most basic of hydraulic machinery can be converted to functional ammo presses with some second year engineering.

It certainly doesn't appear to be profitable, and with the legacy debt and labor costs (blue collar family, not hating- just the truth) it would be very hard to right the ship.


A well structured bankruptcy that would leave Colt unburned by the horrors of the last few decades would certainly be one way out. The question is how fast, and if, they could convince a judge that this path would lead to solvency.

Then, all of a sudden, Colt ammo specifically tailored to their line of top-end revolvers doesn't sound like so bad of an idea, and they could run those two operations side by side. An immediate upsell for any Colt product would be Colt branded ammunition, and any retailer could see this. THAT is something you COULD bank on.