Whatever Happened to the .17 Winchester Super Magnum

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SharpDog

SharpDog

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Heard a lot about it right before and during the Great Ammo Crunch. Some initial problems with the Savage BMags but nothing earth-shattering and now it's like 4 years later, ammo's cheap and nothing but crickets in the .17 WSM factory.

Is it alive ? Is it dead ? Sure seemed like it would be a great little cartridge. Very similar to a 5.7N but potentially a lot cheaper.

300px-WSM_%2B_Hornets.jpg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.17_Winchester_Super_Magnum

 
My brother is a fan of them, I feel it's an in between cartridge that I can't justify buying because anything that it does better than the hmr is done better by a 223 or 22-250.
 
It became popular for internet experts to dismiss any forum post about the 17WSM out of hand, posting some regurgitated BS about the B mag’s not shooting well or not cycling or what having warped stocks, or whining about the cock on opening design, even if the poster had never even laid eyes on one in person, let alone ever fired one.

Also, much like the unproductive criticism the 6.5 creedmoor has taken, too many luddites would level the question - “what does it do the 17HMR doesn’t?” Again, dismissing the cartridge out of hand without any real experience with the Savage rifle or the round.

Then Ruger’s version of the 17WSM became a supply chain nightmare worthy of a Remington launch, and not many folks were ever thrilled by the precision of a Ruger 77 since the day’s of the pushfeeders anyway...

So it got off to a rocky start...

BUT!!!

It’s alive and well, just not enjoying the market share it probably deserves. More ammo options have come to market, and there’s a steady production supply on the shelves for it.

I’m quite happy with mine, I’m dropping a new optic on top to milk a bit more precision from it, as the clarity in the Nikon Buckmaster scope on top right now is a major weakness. Mine is sub-moa to 200yrds in the field, running 0.6-0.8moa on the bench. No recoil, light handling, and devastating small game killing performance... it does what I expect of it...
 
I remember when the 17 HMR came out, a lot of guys said - “if I need more than a 22LR, I have a 223rem...” they say the same now about the 17 WSM. Back then, and again now, I have the same feeling - if a shooter considers the 17 WSM and the 223rem to be in the same class, there’s a lot about hunting and shooting which escapes their experience...

I liken that mindset above to the guy who says, “If I need more than 223rem, I have a 300win mag, so I don’t need a 243win...”

There’s a lot of land to live on between Mexico and Canada, as there is between 17HMR and 223rem...
 
Varminterror said:
I remember when the 17 HMR came out, a lot of guys said - “if I need more than a 22LR, I have a 223rem...” they say the same now about the 17 WSM. Back then, and again now, I have the same feeling - if a shooter considers the 17 WSM and the 223rem to be in the same class, there’s a lot about hunting and shooting which escapes their experience...

I liken that mindset above to the guy who says, “If I need more than 223rem, I have a 300win mag, so I don’t need a 243win...”

There’s a lot of land to live on between Mexico and Canada, as there is between 17HMR and 223rem...
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The Supermag is closer to 223 than the HMR. It drops half what the 17 does at 300yds with a heavier bullet.
My comment was based off usage. I can't hunt squirrel or rabbit with the Supermag. On the other side I can't legally hunt deer with it.
This limits it to a great training rifle and a varmint gun. Or a gun to make bets on what you can hit because no one will believe you.
 
I like the general idea (using the rimfire nail shooter case as a basis). I just don't have any good use for a 17 caliber out in the bushes on the ranch. I do wish that they would bring out a 22 WSR at the same price point so I could pick up an affordable alternative to a little 22 Hornet walking around gun. It would slide right into that little bitty niche between the 22 mag and 223.
 
Volquartsen makes a couple models for the 17wsm, eventually, if the round survives, I would like to pick up their lightweight rifle. It would be a perfect round for my purposes, shooting coyotes on my 50acres in city limits, where I don’t really want to push my luck popping off centerfire rounds. I figure I got a better chance of being left alone firing rim fire.
 
I missed the part where I can’t hunt squirrel or rabbit with my Super Mag... ‘cuz that’s what I’ve been doing with mine for the last 4yrs...
 
Nothing in .17 caliber has ever interested me so I don’t have any feeling positive or negative about the .17 WSM.
 
I love my HMR and thought that the 17 WSM would be nifty, but I didn't find the initial rifle offerings compelling, and then sort of lost interest. I'm sure not quite fitting in the vast majority of pre-existing rimfire platforms hasn't helped the popularity growth of the WSM.

Perhaps there is a lot of hunting and shooting that escapes my experience ;) , but I make a real effort to limit my layers of cartridge redundancy and streamline my logistics. I understand that the WSM is ballistically different, but in terms of actual application, I don't really have a use for the WSM now that can't be covered very well by the 22lr, 17 HMR or .223 Rem. I'm not a serious prarie dogger, when I go, I usually use .223, although 17 HMR and silenced .22 lr is fun at times too. Rabbits get a .22 pill through the head, not very challenging given the gazillion rabbits around here. When I just want to shoot something accurate at shorter ranges without having to worry about spending time reloading, I take my HMR.

Getting a 17 WSM rifle would be neat, but not as useful for me as buying a couple thousand more bullets for rifles I already have, more jugs of powder, more cases, a better bipod, another suppressor, better scopes, etc. Given my infinite wants and finite funds and free time, I'm trying to get away from buying neat stuff just because it's neat.

I suspect that a lot of shooters and hunters are in a similar situation. If you want one though and feel it would address a need you have, I say go for it, there's never a shortage of 17 WSM ammo at my local Sportsman's Warehouse.
 
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I like the 17 HMR a lot. I also like the 22 Hornet. I am curious and interested in the 17 WSM but have never shot one... As much as I like the 17 HMR if I had a 17WSM I'm sure I would like it too. However, I think if I ever decide I need more "17" then the 17 HMR has to offer I'll probably go with a 17 Hornet instead of the 17WSM... It's reloadable, capable of higher velocity, has greater rifle selection and I won't ever need to be concerned about whether the reloading companies will make it an orphan...

I generally don't criticize or comment on guns and cartridges that I haven't owned, shot, worked on or hunted with. But, after you've been involved in shooting and reloading, etc. for a while I disagree with the assertion that one is unable to extrapolate performance to some degree, based on experience with other cartridges, to draw some logical and worthwhile conclusions. I think the above is an example of that...
 
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If you’re referring to me, I never said a shooter can’t extrapolate performance (actually interpolate, in this case).

What this thread bears, in my mind, is an indication of how little folks think of the 223rem. Or maybe how much they think of their 17 HMR. The gap between the two is huge.

Here’s a thought experiment: you need to build a bridge with numbers from 1-10. You don’t want any two consecutive numbers, but you can’t skip more than one or two at a time.

1, 3, 5, 7, & 9 is one option for a bridge.

2, 4, 6, 8, and 10 is another.

Standing up on “a 22, a 223, and a 30-06 will do it all,” is just as valid as saying, “a .17wsm, a 6.5 creed, and a 338wm will do it all.” But some folks like to throw stones at anything new because they have something old...
 
Varminterror said:
Don’t buy one.

Not everyone owns a 22LR, 17HMR, and .223rem.
Click to expand...

I probably won't, and a lot of other folks in similar situations probably won't either, that's kind of the point of this thread. The title of this thread pretty much answers the OPs question, obviously the WSM is not exactly taking the rimfire world by storm if folks are asking whatever happened to it 4 years after it was introduced. The next obvious question would be Why?

I'm not exactly freakishly over-gunned with a .22 lr, a 17 HMR and a .223. Winchester probably should have known that many of their potential customers would already have some combination of the above and decided what the value proposition for the WSM would be to this large chunk of customers before trotting it out.

So, as I see it, that's where the rubber meets the road, what usage or need do people have that could convince them to buy a 17 WSM beyond "hey that's neat". Does that usage case only apply to people that don't already have a .22lr, 17 HMR or .223? If so you've already cut a bunch of customers out of the market and taken a step down the current road of low market penetration and eventual marginalization.

Varminterror said:
What this thread bears, in my mind, is an indication of how little folks think of the 223rem. Or maybe how much they think of their 17 HMR. The gap between the two is huge.
Click to expand...

I don't think people are confused by these concepts, or ignorant of the ballistic space between 17 HMR and .223, but the big question is: Why does it matter? What use or application lies in that space that would drive people to go buy a 17 WSM?

For what use would 17 HMR not be quite enough, but .223 would be unacceptably or inconveniently overpowered?

I can't really think of a good, widespread answer to that question, and I bet that's why the 17 WSM is languishing.
 
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More ammo coming out, and more rifles... rifles and ammo at Walmart... but it’s languishing?

If you pull the thread of “why do we need this between that and that?” then the entirety of your position is either narrow sighted, or illogical. What gap does a 7-08 fill between 260rem and 308win? What gap does 260 Rem fill between 243win and 7-08? What does 30-06 fill between 308win and 300wm? It all becomes a trivial discussion, regardless of which three cartridges you pick.
 
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But some folks like to throw stones at anything new because they have something old...
Click to expand...

Or something new...something borrowed, something blue... no wait, that’s something completely different.

I have almost picked up one of the CZ convertible rifles in the 22lr/.17 HMR configurations a few times. I am a .22 guy myself but you can’t own one of everything...without one of everything. I’d likely already own one but it would cost more to shoot than any of my .22’s from LR, Hornet, 223 and even 22-250.

Use or utility really doesn’t matter if you are trying to sell something. Saab sold a lot of cars as well as other “oddballs” just because they were different, not because they did anything spectacular.
 
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