Quantcast

What's so great about .450 Bushmaster?

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by jcollins1007, May 2, 2010.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. jcollins1007

    jcollins1007 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2010
    Messages:
    82
    Location:
    Middle Tennessee
    This is an open question to all: what is so great about the .450 Bushmaster cartridge? It seems to me that ballistically it is the same as a sabot slug for a shotgun, and the shotgun itself is cheaper than an AR. Also, you can get an AR in .308 that has better ballistics, and is cheaper to reload AND buy. To me, it seems if you just want a heavy-grained cartridge for brush work in a semi-auto platform that you should just get a Mossberg 930 in a rifled barrel.

    I ask this question because I want an AR and I think the concept is cool (and very useful in Middle Tennessee), but it's hard to justify the cost for all that.

    Any thoughts?
     
  2. Zerodefect

    Zerodefect Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2009
    Messages:
    5,115
    Location:
    Yakutsk, Sakha Republic
    Your on the right path, but a bigbore AR is alot easier to swing about than a shotgun.

    .450, .50 beowolf are good short range rifles calibers for those that want an AR that can penetrate barriers better than an AK. Tons of power but limited range. Kinda limits the AR to specific uses IMO. Kind of a brute smash everything round.

    I prefere the new 6.8spc AR varients. The extra "power" like a 7.62x49 AK but withour giving up range or accuracy. Possibly stretching out the AR's range even further.
     
  3. Welding Rod

    Welding Rod Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2008
    Messages:
    1,774
    Location:
    PacNW
    It gives you good punch and short range ballistics in the same firearm platform you usually shoot. If the AR platform is not what you usually shoot, it is no better than anything else.

    If you want my comments on the 450 BM cartridge in an AR, there is a current Bushmaster thread going that contains them. I owned two and was not impressed at all with BM for not building a suitable purpose built magazine - trying to accomplish a cheap make do with the GI mag body is slipshod at best.
     
  4. Tentwing

    Tentwing Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2010
    Messages:
    211
    Location:
    GA Dawg being held captive by the TN Volunteers
    What's so great about .450 Bushmaster?...........well it knocks really BIG holes in stuff:D,.....but them holes ain't cheap though:rolleyes:



    ...........Tentwing
     
  5. MetalHead

    MetalHead Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2009
    Messages:
    217
    What's so great about .450 Bushmaster?.........It gives the Bushy fan-boys something to lust after?

    If I ever get around to wanting a big bore it will be in 45Win, the round used in the Wildey pistol.
     
  6. Maverick223

    Maverick223 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2008
    Messages:
    11,269
    Location:
    28078
    Not much from my perspective, I would go with the .458SOCOM which offers about the same performance, but uses .458cal bullets which are designed for rifle velocities. This may be a non-issue if you don't plan to hunt with it, but why use a thumper like this for a plinker?

    :)
     
  7. Boomm

    Boomm Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2010
    Messages:
    91
    Jesus used one.


    But on a more serious note, its like a .223 on steroids without the range. Its kind of like a light, semi-auto .45-70.

    I feel like it would be an excellent hog hunting round.
     
  8. OhioChief

    OhioChief Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2009
    Messages:
    426
    I wanted it. Well, I wanted the .458 SOCOM and bought it. Very expensive ammo, not a plinker. I wanted to be able to punch something really hard at a 100 yards out. Not much chance of a accurate shotgun slug hit from that range. At least for me. Has a really big bang when it goes off. It's fun when everybody at the range stops and looks. Makes me feel like kid at Christmas when I fire it. And I like having the ability to change my platform depending upon the mission. And one last thing, Do you really need a reason to buy another toy?
     
  9. dom1104

    dom1104 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2007
    Messages:
    1,366
    the 458 socom has a purpose in Indiana, its one of the only rifle rounds allowed for deer.

    Always thought about gettin one, always let the cost kill that thought :)

    I wonder what the full cost would be? $1000 for the upper, 150 for the dies, probably 300 for some brass......

    yikes.
     
  10. redneck2

    redneck2 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    12,864
    Location:
    Northern Indiana
    Just got one. Uppers have dropped to $750. Brass is still expensive at 80 cents per. Any .458 bullets are also pricey, maybe 40-60 cents each.

    Got mine for deer hunting. Thought of carrying a 10 round EBR for deer was too good to pass up.
     
  11. Txhillbilly

    Txhillbilly Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2008
    Messages:
    529
    Location:
    Where Else! TEXAS
    The 458 SOCOM is a whole lot better caliber than the 450 Bushmaster for any purpose. The 450 uses pistol bullets,the 458 uses 45-70 rifle bullets,and there are a whole lot more choices in bullets for the 458.

    You can find factory ammo for the 450 easier than the 458,but I handload,so it's easier to load the 458 SOCOM,brass is just hard to find.
     
  12. jcollins1007

    jcollins1007 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2010
    Messages:
    82
    Location:
    Middle Tennessee
    For the record, the 450 uses the same rifle bullets of other 45 caliber rifles...
     
  13. R.W.Dale

    R.W.Dale Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2005
    Messages:
    11,442
    Location:
    Northwest Arkansas
    No it does not

    45-70 450marlin 458win mag ect ect all use .458" dia bullets

    450 bushmanster uses .451-.451" bullets as does 45acp,colt, 460 S&W ect ect

    at one time this would have been a real advantage. But with today's EXCELLENT 45 cal handgun bullet selection not so much. Plus theres the very real advantage of .45 handgun bullets being much much cheaper.
     
  14. Maverick223

    Maverick223 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2008
    Messages:
    11,269
    Location:
    28078
    True, just as long as they are chambered for .454Casull, .45LC, or .45ACP. No question about it, it is a .452cal bullet, not a .458cal as used in the .45-70Govt., .458WM, and all other notable centerfire rifle cartridges. Can you use a .458cal bullet instead...most likely. Is it safe to do so...absolutely not!

    EDIT: Krochus beat me to it.

    :)
     
  15. jcollins1007

    jcollins1007 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2010
    Messages:
    82
    Location:
    Middle Tennessee
    If the 450 is a pistol bullet, then the 458 and 45-70 is also a pistol bullet, because the only difference between the two are the diameter. Otherwise, the shape is the same.

    Still, the 450 BM (and the 458 SOCOM) just seem like a waste of time and money. I hunt in the brush were 30-30 and 7.62x39 do just fine, and Foster Slug Shotguns perform just as well. I read that this was the fruition of the Jeff Cooper "Thumper" concept, which is a niche that I don't see a reason to be filled. It seems like having a four-wheel drive ferrari for mudding.
     
  16. TexasPatriot.308

    TexasPatriot.308 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2009
    Messages:
    2,424
    Location:
    Luling Texas
    the cost of ammo is great, very, very great...:evil:
     
  17. R.W.Dale

    R.W.Dale Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2005
    Messages:
    11,442
    Location:
    Northwest Arkansas
    Massive thread fail!

    I'm punching out on this one as I can see that no good can be done here
     
  18. Maverick223

    Maverick223 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2008
    Messages:
    11,269
    Location:
    28078
    No the difference is the caliber, construction, and the weight, because heavy .452in. bullets are not available (or at the very least common). I believe that you are confusing bullets with metallic cartridges, which are not interchangeable terms.

    You can't compare a shotgun slug to a rifle cartridge, the latter is always more accurate due to the design (including sabots). Furthermore the "thumper concept" is proven, just ask the NA buffalo (bison) which are just now beginning to make a comeback largely due to a cartridge with very, very similar external ballistics to the .458SOCOM/.45Pro./.450Bush., the blackpowder .45-90Sharps.

    I agree, a better question (than: What's so great about .450 Bushmaster?) would be "why start a thread simply to bash a class of cartridges that shows merit and brings something new and welcome to an existing, ubiquitous platform?" (and I don't even care for the AR and prefer the .458SOCOM).

    :)
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2010
  19. dom1104

    dom1104 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2007
    Messages:
    1,366
    The death of the bison has less to do with the 45-70, and more to do with the unique lung structure of the bison that made them very, VERY easy to kill.

    Just sayin.

    It IS hard to make a case for the .458. a shotgun is much more versatile, and with sabots and rifled bore almost as practically accurate at the >150 yard ranges of both firearms.
     
  20. jcollins1007

    jcollins1007 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2010
    Messages:
    82
    Location:
    Middle Tennessee
    I'm not saying that the thumper concept doesn't work, just that it isn't necessary. Why limit yourself with such a round when you can get better ballistics with a .308 and about the same kinetic energy, and is already available for the AR platform.

    And the point I was making about the "pistol" bullets was sarcasm because the bullets that Hornady used to make the 450 BM is the same that they use for other large caliber cartridges like the 444 marlin and 45-70. Jeez, didn't mean to offend the resident Razorback.
     
  21. R.W.Dale

    R.W.Dale Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2005
    Messages:
    11,442
    Location:
    Northwest Arkansas
    OK I think I see your problem

    You're generically refering to AR's 308 and other as the same platform when they're not.

    Ar's that shoot 308 based rounds (ar10) are a great deal more expensive, heavy and not nearly as common as they share almost NO parts with the much much more ubiquitous AR15 that EVERYBODY now owns.

    Saying you should just get a 308 AR is like saying you should just get a Diesel engine in your Ford truck.

    You're making no mention that you have to buy the much larger and expensive Super Duty to get one. Think of cartridges like the 450 BM as a AR15 version a diesel F-150 as you're getting the smaller platform to do things only the larger one could do before
     
  22. jcollins1007

    jcollins1007 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2010
    Messages:
    82
    Location:
    Middle Tennessee
    I thought you left...:)

    First of all, there is such a thing as a Ford Ranger with a diesel engine. Only it isn't sold in America and its called the Toyota Hilux. One of the best selling trucks in the world, but American enviro-hippie laws prevent it from coming here. But I digress...

    I understand what you are saying, that there is no such thing as a 308 "AR-15." The point I was making is that there is already the infrastructure there for the AR-10, as well as 6.5 creedmores, 6.5 grendel, 6.8 SPC, etc. It just doesn't make any sense to me to do this when there is already a plethora of other cartridges that fill that niche of a big game caliber AR.

    BTW, good job on the EBR kills, krochus. I'll be taking the WASR out this summer for piggies.
     
  23. jmorris

    jmorris Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2005
    Messages:
    12,123
    The best thing about the 450 bm is that it uses cheap bullets as 230 grain 45 acp bullets go for around $100/1000. Where bullets for the 458 socom generally weigh and cost more like 405 grain and around $100/500. For my use I wanted the most energy subsonic and didn't want to suppress any larger hole than I had to.

    458socom.jpg
     
  24. R.W.Dale

    R.W.Dale Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2005
    Messages:
    11,442
    Location:
    Northwest Arkansas
    I've seen this argument made 100 different times for a 100 different platforms for 100 different cartridges.

    The answer is still the same

    If folks only stuck with what made sense EVERY centerfire rifle would be either a 223, 30-06 and 375H&H

    So now a Ranger is a Toyota

    You really really gotta quit making blanket statements as it REALLY isn't working for you.

    And for the record there is a global diesel ranger and it's not a Toyota Hilux

    Whats next calling a cat a dog because they both have four legs and a tail?
     
  25. jcollins1007

    jcollins1007 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2010
    Messages:
    82
    Location:
    Middle Tennessee
    Did I hurt your feelings or something?
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice