What's the difference between "Scout" scopes and handgun scopes?

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Sam1911

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Hi!

I'm trying to pick out a scope for my Marlin 336 Scout project and I guess I don't really understand the basic differences between the few scopes sold as "Scout" models and the many various ones sold for handguns.

They all seem to have longer eye relief (say from 15" to 24") and fairly low power.

They all seem to feature a reduced field of view at any given range compared to conventionally mounted models. I assume this is a simple geometry issue -- as you move the tube away from the eye, the arc you can see out the other end is reduced. Is there more to it?

Many handgun scopes are now advertised to stand up to any recoil level, so that shouldn't be an issue.

What else is there to it?

I'd love to hear your suggestions on my current front-runner: Thompson/Center's "Recoil Proof" handgun scope -- 1.5-4x28mm. I'm leaning towards this one as it's range of eye relief is much greater than most other models. It will work as close as 8" from the eye, which would let me move it back to the rear of a Scout-type mount.
I'm thinking that by going with the forward mount, but placing the scope towards the rear of the mount I could get the benefits of a Scout scope and better FOV, to boot.

How's the logic, here?

Many thanks for any and all advice!

-Sam
 
And question two would be: If you WOULDN'T go with a forward mounting location and long-eye-relief scope, why not?

Thanks again!

-Sam
 
My understanding (and it's pretty limited) is that it's about both eye relief distance AND mag power.

Here is a Leupold FX-II 2.5x28mm Scout scope on my Marlin 1895.

It's low power and also the long eye relief.

I think, at least when I was shopping, that most of the handgun scopes are a higher mag power. 2.5x isn't a lot, but it's in keeping with the Scout Rifle's intended use I guess.

It works fine for me but I wondered the same thing as you.

Truth be told, here in Texas at least, I'm not liable to run into dangerous game so having the quick acquisition of the scout scope doesn't mean much to me.

If I was going to do this again I would mount a traditional scope directly to the receiver and avoid having to mess with that rail.

marlin.jpg
 
Thanks for the ideas and the cool pic!

Could you be a little more specific about "messing with that rail?" Was it a hassle? Did it not work right? Are you unsatisfied with something about how it turned out?

I'm not 100% sold on the idea. Still weighing the options so I'd love to hear good and bad.

Thanks again!

-Sam

EDIT: And the handgun scopes I'm considering are all 1-4x or 1.5-4x or something like that. Nothing higher than 2x at the low end.
 
Well it wasn't TOO hard to install, but you lose the iron sights.

With a traditional mounted scope you could at least get some high posts and keep the irons if you wanted to.

Plus the cost of the rail. I just don't think I would do it that way again, but as they say, it's bought and paid for :)

I have nothing bad to say. Took a real nice whitetail with it last year, hope to again this year. It's just..... different.
 
Ahhh, I see.

I'm thinking about getting the XS Sights ghost ring sight set as back up irons and using Quick Detach rings for the scope.

Probably WAY overkill to have all that on a hunting rifle, but maybe someday I, or my son, will be glad I did.

Thanks for your advice!
 
I'm thinking about getting the XS Sights ghost ring sight set as back up irons and using Quick Detach rings for the scope.
Click to expand...

Ahhhhh. Very nice. See that would work. I just didn't think of that when I was putting this one together. I like that.
If you do it that way post a pic :)
 
If you were willing to go the extra expense you could also install aperture sights. I was looking at that option with a scout project on a 336 but I decided that for the price I could almost assemble an AR.
And an AR is a much more useable rifle for me in my current situation...
Still a solid concept though and I wouldn't shed any tears about having one in my collection.
To answer your question, I don't think there is much difference. I used a pistol scope on a scout rifle before with no issues and I shot some very nice one hole groups with it. If anything, I would think that a scope mounted on a rifle would actually suffer less recoil than one on a handgun because rifles are heavier, held by both hands, and they recoil more straight back than up and back like a handgun.
One thing - when you go to buy one though just make sure that the eye relief is good - some scout mounts seem to put the scope just a little closer than it would be to the eye when mounted on a handgun so you gotta make sure that you can see the whole field of view. A way to do it might be to get your rifle ready to scope and then just lay the scope on the bottom half of the ring to make sure the eye relief is OK.

BTW - if you are interested in a 2.5x Simmons (2.5x20mm Prohunter I think?) I have one that I'm planning to put up for sale (it was on my Savage Scout and was going to go on the Marlin). PM me if it sounds like something you might want to talk about.
 
I'm thinking about getting the XS Sights ghost ring sight set as back up irons and using Quick Detach rings for the scope.

Probably WAY overkill to have all that on a hunting rifle, but maybe someday I, or my son, will be glad I did.
Click to expand...

I agree that it's the way to go.

I like having back-up sites. If I tromp back into deep brush, I like to have as many backups as possible so I don't have to go back to camp until I want to.
 
Sam1911

Hey there!

Jeff Cooper's idea of the scout rifle revolved around having a fairly low magnification 'scope, with an easily acquired reticle (the German Reticle #1, a pointed post with two, heavy, horizontal bars), mounted forward for quick target acquisition. This allows for a "both eyes open" handling/shooting technique. The forward mount permits use of stripper clips in reloading a typical Mauser. He also wanted power and light weight.

I did this on a Spanish FR-8 carbine, using a Burris 1.5x Scout Scope. It was wonderful! It made for a great, handy, hunting rifle -- quick to reload and with decent long-range potential, out to 200 or 300 yards.

Most lever guns already are quick to point. A "scout mount" will help the shooter with quick target acquisition. The fast reload feature (compared to a Mauser) isn't available.

A "scout mount" can be useful if hunting in dense woods at less than 100 yards but Cooper sought a different solution when he pondered the scout rifle concept.

My SOCOM 16, similarly, adapted scout rifle characteristics. Equipped with an EO Tech sight, it approaches Cooper's ideal but it's WAY too fat -- not a true scout rifle!

. . .hope I didn't flog that issue to death. . . .
 
. . .hope I didn't flog that issue to death. . . .
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Not at all! I'm overthinking it extensively, myself! (See my other post on ring heights for a different set of conundrums.)

The lever gun can't reload quickly, but it also doesn't then need the scope quite so far forward (to clear the action of a bolt gun). I'm thinking of getting a scope with an intermediate eye relief that I can mount sort of in between the normal and "Scout" locations.

Most folks (like TexasRifleman above) mount their Scout scope as far forward as possible. It seems to me that this maximizes the eyes-wide-open quick target acquisition feature, but would also narrow the field of view. I'm looking at a scope that can operate as close as 8" from the eye (most need at least 11" or 12") and move the ocular lens back to about the middle of the 336's receiver.

I'm betting that I'll get a best-of-both-worlds result. We'll see...

Thoughts?

Thanks!

-Sam
 
Sam 1911

I hope that you can find suitable hardware.

I went through this when searching for optics suitable for the SOCOM. It seems as though, with the exception of a single Leupold, everything is either "standard" eye relief or infinite eye relief. There are some IER handgun 'scopes available, but they all seemed to have simple wire or "duplex" reticles.

For rifle work, I am prejudiced toward the German #1 or #4. --couldn't find one. That's why I swallowed hard and bought an EO Tech. At least I didn't blow my budget on an ACOG. . . . :evil:
 
I actually have had some luck with the NCSTAR 1.5-7x long eye relief scope. Considering I only spent forty bucks on the scope and it hasn't broken after about a hundred rounds of Mosin it is great for the money.
 
I'm thinking about getting the XS Sights ghost ring sight set as back up irons and using Quick Detach rings for the scope.
Click to expand...

That is the set up I have on my 1895 Guide Gun...it's SWEET!

But back too your original question; only the differences are eye relief and magnification.
 
If I'm not misremembering what I've seen on the subject, there are two differences. Apparently, most handgun scopes have an eye relief that is a little further out than the "traditional" ;) mounting position of scout scopes made by Leupold and Burris. And the parallax-free distance on handgun scopes is supposed to be something like 50 yards, more like a shotgun scope than a rifle scope.

Again, I might be mixing these up 'cause it's been a while since I researched the topic. If I'm blowing smoke, hopefully someone will correct me.

Barrett
 
Thanks very much to all the replies!

I think I'm just about sold on the Thompson/Center "Recoil Proof" handgun scope.

1.25-4x28, and the eye relief is listed as 8"-21" which is a lot better than every other handgun scope I've found which are all listed as needing at least 11" between the eye and ocular lens. The Burris Scout lists 4"-22" and Leupold's FX-2 Scout scope needs about 9-1/2"! So the T/C is looking good.

And it's $270 or so, which seems like a good deal.

No, it doesn't come with the German recticle, which I *really* wanted, but I guess you can't always get what you want.

-Sam
 
Truth be told, here in Texas at least, I'm not liable to run into dangerous game so having the quick acquisition of the scout scope doesn't mean much to me.
Click to expand...

Hunt hog in the northern hill country on foot. You'll really want a fast pointing rilfe when you find pigs coming out from the cedar five feet away.

My Piggy Gun
 
A "Scout" scope (Leupold and Burris) are intermediate eye relief. The Leupold has a 9.3" eye relief and the Burris 2.75 is good between 8.5" and 14". Comparable handgun models from Leupold and Burris are 18" and 10-24". So a handgun scope may work, but it certainly isn't ideal. I've done all of my IER shooting with Leupolds and have absolutely no complaints. One of my Leupold IER Scouts even had a German #1. Another THR member now owns it. Leupold's Custom Shop can put one in for you.
 
Don't forget that pistol scopes parallax is set at 50 yards and rifle scopes are set at 100yards.
 
The eye relief on my Burris 2-7 Handgun seems to be just about 12 inches on 7x, and perhaps 13 on 2x. Has a ballistic plex reticle..works pretty well out to nearly 600 yards with .308.
 
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