What's the reason for the Henry lever rifle loading from the front of the tube?

[CavalierLeif]

Hi all,

I've been reloading quite a bit of .38 special and .357 magnum lately, and I'm looking towards a .357 lever rifle for hunting whitetail and further standardizing on that ammo choice. The two I've come across the most are the Rossi 92 and the Henry Big Boy.

I like the Henry - smooth action, fit is pretty good, and I found a great one at my LGS with the large loop. The only thing I don't particularly like is that you have to reload from the muzzle end via the tube mechanism. I much prefer being able to top off the rifle through the traditional method on the receiver.

I've searched around and couldn't find any good answer as to why Henry does this with their rifles. Anyone know?

 

[Laphroaig]

The original Henry rifles loaded from the front of the mag tube also. I guess they are trying to be authentic.

 

[Slamfire]

I assume you are talking about an 1860 Henry. Like the one in this UTube video.




The first Henry rifles were loaded that way.

According to various sources, Nelson King had a patent for a side loading gate and that was purchased by Winchester in 1866.

Springfield Armory Museum - Collection Record
http://ww2.rediscov.com/spring/VFPC...g/DETAILS.IDC,SPECIFIC=13015,DATABASE=objects,

In 1866 the New Haven Arms Company changed its name to the Winchester Repeating Arms Company. The first firearm to be built under the Winchester names was the Model 1866. This first Winchester was a much-improved version of the Henry. A new magazine tube developed by Nelson King, Winchester's plant superintendent, was a vast improvement over the slotted magazine tube used on the Henry and its predecessor. The old tube allowed dirt to enter through the slots and was weakened because of it. King's patent, assigned to Winchester, featured a solid tube that was much stronger and reliable. His patent also dealt with an improved loading system for the rifle. The rifle now featured a loading port on the right side of the receiver with a spring-loaded cover. The frame continued to be made from cast brass.

 

[dfariswheel]

The action as used in the Henry was originally developed as the Volcanic rifles and pistols.
These fired "Meteor Balls" which were lead bullets with a little priming mixture in the rear that acted as both the primer and power charge.

These early guns loaded from the front end of the magazine, and this carried over to the Henry.
In the 1860 Winchester the King patent loading gate in the receiver was adopted as an upgrade to the problems of the magazine tube being open on the bottom to debris and bending, and the problem of loading the rifle while on horse back.
A problem with the Volcanic and Henry rifles was if they were carried across the saddle the opening on the bottom of the mag tube could bend, jamming it, and it let dirt in.
It was also difficult to load the rifles while mounted.

The King's Patent loading gate in the receiver solved all this.

 

[Bushpilot]

The reason is that it is cheaper and easier for HRA to make them with a removable tube compared to a loading gate. That is also why so many different types of repeating .22 rifles use a removable tube, it's cheap and easy to make. The King's patent loading gate by the way is a far better loading solution in several ways then the removable type of tube mag that the Big Boy has. Incidentally, Nelson King, the inventor of the King's loading gate, was a shop foreman in Winchester's plant. Winchester bought the New Haven Arms Company (briefly called the Henry Repeating Rifle Co.) from Tyler Henry, inventor of the original Henry rifle in1865/66. Since there is no connection or similarity between the Big Boy and the original Henry whatsoever other then they both have levers and gold colored receivers, the idea that it is because that is the way the original worked is doubtful since the original Henry's front loading tube worked completely different and didn't use a removable tube.

 

[Varminterror]

Idiocy.

 

[MTNSTRYDER]

The front loading tube on a lever action makes it easy and safe to unload after a long day in the woods.Its also faster for a full reload.On a 22
But I like being able to top off rounds on my bigger lever guns,They should all have BOTH front and side

 

[Nuclear]

That's a really good idea.

 

[AZAndy]

The front loading tube on a lever action makes it easy and safe to unload after a long day in the woods.Its also faster for a full reload.On a 22
But I like being able to top off rounds on my bigger lever guns,They should all have BOTH front and side

I like the way you think. "Both" is often the best answer. "Ice cream or cake?"

 

[Steve51]

I don't know why Henry chose to use the loading tube but I have owned both the Rossi 92 in .357 mag and have the Henry Big Boy Steel in .357 mag.
I much prefer the Henry for several reasons.
1. The loading gate on the Rossi was a finger pincher. I normally would use a round of ammo to push ammo past the gate to save my fingers.

2. The Rossi would not feed ammo with an OAL exceeding 1.53". The Henry has no problems.

3. The Rossi action was very rough - the Henry action very smooth

Rossi's are much cheaper and are lighter. I did a Steve Gunz action job on mine, which included modifying the loading gate spring (it still pinched your fingers). I also refinished the stock. Mine was an accurate rifle but it would not feed some factory ammo with longer OAL and it would not feed my handloads that exceeded 1.53 OAL.

 

[eastbank]

marlin made a factory tube loading centerfire lever action rifle, I have one. eastbank.

 

[jmr40]

The front loading tube on a lever action makes it easy and safe to unload after a long day in the woods.Its also faster for a full reload.

Faster maybe. But I'm not so sure about safer. I don't want to have to be loading and unloading with my hands that close to the muzzle. The original Henry's were done that way because it was simpler for the day's technology. I have no problem with the reproductions of those rifles being authentic in that way. But when making a "copy' of the more modern 30-30 or 45-70 lever rifles they should stay with the period correct side loading gate.

Henry doesn't do so because it is a manufacturing shortcut that saves them money. And having owned many 22's over the years that loaded that way I can say the system is also the weak link for durability. I have a couple of 22's that have had the tube mag fail from repeatedly loading and unloadng them. Never had any issues with loading gates or other style magazines.

 

[Bushpilot]

The front loading tube on a lever action makes it easy and safe to unload after a long day in the woods.Its also faster for a full reload.On a 22
But I like being able to top off rounds on my bigger lever guns,They should all have BOTH front and side

Rossi's in 454 Casull came with both a loading gate and a front loading tube.

 

[someguy2800]

I assume they were trying to find some sense of nostalgia by reminding the user of the tube loading 22 they had as a kid.

I think tube loading makes sense for relatively fragile 22lr, but it's just idiotic on a centerfire rifle. I can't imagine loading my 45/70 bear thumper like a kids 22.

Henry doesn't seem to be well in tune to what people want. I was talking to a Henry rep at a gun show this spring and asked when the single shots are going to be ready. In the conversation he told me they were originally going to make interchangeable barrels for it but decided that people would rather just buy multiple guns!

 

[Jim Watson]

I once saw a picture in a gunzine of a real Henry period modified with slip-tube loading and foreend. Nobody knew who, when, where, or why it was done, but it occupied a place of honor in a Winchester collection.

I agree, a King loading gate can be a finger biter. When in CAS, I learned to pick up several cartridges, get one started and then push each one in with the next round. The last one was rather gingerly thumbed past the gate. Most of the posse carried little tools of wood or antler to poke them in with.

 

[chicharrones]

I'd vote for Henry aiming to keep the complexity and cost of their centerfire rifles down. The loading tube unload is very useful for quick unloads during ceasefires at shooting ranges these days. I figure there are many more shooting range shooters than hunters, so Henry sales won't be affected much.

Risk for loading? Action open, chamber empty, and load at the tube cut-out while looking at the gun from the side.

Regarding rimfire tube mags, I'd hate to cycle the action on 15 or more soft lead bullet Long Rifles to empty the gun. LR ammo (Short and Long included) seem to get beat up pretty easily when forced to go through an action unfired.

 

[DM~]

In all the years I've owned/used tube feed 22's, I've yet to have one damaged, so it wouldn't work or function properly...

Personally, I prefer them.

DM

 

[Riomouse911]

It boils down to preference I guess. Side loaders have their plusses and minuses, and the tube loaders have them as well. See what fits you best, and roll along with it . I, too find the smaller-caliber gates to be finger pinchers, but the .44 or .45 sized cartridges slid into the gates don't seem to bite me as much.

Of my 11 lever guns, 3 are .22's with the tube loading style, and the rest are Winchester/Marlin/Rossi side-loaders, so I have a little bit of both worlds...

 

[ColoradoMinuteMan]

I think the OP is referring to rifles made by Henry Repeating Arms and not the "Henry Rifle" which was made by New Haven Arms Company. These two entities being unrelated.

As to firearms made by Henry Repeating Arms, I guess it was a design choice made for one reason or another. My guess is that it may be related to the fact that Henry's initial offering was a .22LR lever action rifle. Their subsequent offerings seem to be scaled up versions based off of that design.

 

[Jason_W]

The loading gate is a Must!

When I got into a protracted gunfight on Monday, I had a Henry with front tube loading. I almost didn't make it out alive. I even took a bullet to the shoulder that I of course dug out with a glowing hot knife and then sewed up with some old fishing line and sharpened piece of guitar string I found lying about.

Now, during the protracted gunfight I was in on tuesday, I had a levergun with a loading gate and I made short work of all 50 ex special forces gone rogue criminal outfit who were set on stealing my crappy TV. Got out of that one without a scratch on me.

 

[Speedo66]

I don't know why Henry chose to use the loading tube but I have owned both the Rossi 92 in .357 mag and have the Henry Big Boy Steel in .357 mag.
I much prefer the Henry for several reasons.
1. The loading gate on the Rossi was a finger pincher. I normally would use a round of ammo to push ammo past the gate to save my fingers.

2. The Rossi would not feed ammo with an OAL exceeding 1.53". The Henry has no problems.

3. The Rossi action was very rough - the Henry action very smooth

Rossi's are much cheaper and are lighter. I did a Steve Gunz action job on mine, which included modifying the loading gate spring (it still pinched your fingers). I also refinished the stock. Mine was an accurate rifle but it would not feed some factory ammo with longer OAL and it would not feed my handloads that exceeded 1.53 OAL.

My Rossi .357 is about 2 years old and feeds everything, short and long, .38Spl. to .357 Mag. I handload .357 to 1.6 OAL and it eats them like jellybeans, almost faster than I can reload them. lol

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Hi all,

I've been reloading quite a bit of .38 special and .357 magnum lately, and I'm looking towards a .357 lever rifle for hunting whitetail and further standardizing on that ammo choice. The two I've come across the most are the Rossi 92 and the Henry Big Boy.

I like the Henry - smooth action, fit is pretty good, and I found a great one at my LGS with the large loop. The only thing I don't particularly like is that you have to reload from the muzzle end via the tube mechanism. I much prefer being able to top off the rifle through the traditional method on the receiver.

I've searched around and couldn't find any good answer as to why Henry does this with their rifles. Anyone know?

That's the loading system the original Henry rifles used, around 1860. The King's Patent Loading Gate wasn't invented until around 1865.

 

[Doug Jeffries]

The reason is that it is cheaper and easier for HRA to make them with a removable tube compared to a loading gate. That is also why so many different types of repeating .22 rifles use a removable tube, it's cheap and easy to make.

I've also read that .22 brass is too thin to take the stress of being pushed through a loading gate without deforming.

 

[Doug Jeffries]

I don't see the notion of a loading gate adding that much complexity. You still have the same basic process of advancing and loading each round when cycling the action. I think it's more a strategic move should states like NY or California try to change laws on side gate loading capacity. Plus you can empty the tube without cycling.

 

[Bushpilot]

I've also read that .22 brass is too thin to take the stress of being pushed through a loading gate without deforming.

I seem to remember that way back in the day a lever action rifle manufacturer made some lever guns in 22 rimfire with with a loading gate but quickly stopped or never put them into production because the loaded gate deformed the bullets too much along with the fact that it was difficult to manipulate the small round into the gate. It might have been when Winchester was chambering 1873's in 22 rimfire but I'm not sure about that.

I don't see the notion of a loading gate adding that much complexity.

I think the addition of a loading gate might be a little more complicated then it first appears. First you have to have room for the gate to operate (depress into the receiver), you need to have a cartridge stop that usually doubles as a lifter but that also allows additional cartridges to be fed into the tube, past the cartridge stop, while at the same time a means of keeping the cartridges already in the tube under spring pressure from coming out of the loading gate when the gate is depressed. With the front loaded 22 type of tube you just need a cartridge stop/lifter which is pretty simple.