When do you think is the right time to replace a barrel with a new one? Right now I dont know if i should use 200 dollars on a new barrel. Right now my barrel has some fouling that wont go away and also my barrel has few minor scratches within the bore.There are not visible unless you use a bore light.(Due to cleaning rod) And one small dent in the groove near the chamber area. Should i replace it or should I stick with the one I already have? My main concern is reliablity if i was to be in a situation where i would need it to function flawlessly.
When should one replace the barrel?
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Low-Sci
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That really depends on what kind of firearm we're talking about.
Thought I'd get a reply in quick before it gets moved, so here goes.
If we're talking about a pistol barrel, I sincerely doubt that some scratches from a cleaning rod will interfere with your reliability. Especially if you can only see them with a bore scope. If you're really uncomfortable with the barrel, you could see if you could get it lapped. but it probably isn't worth the effort or the money.
As far as the fouling goes, I'd say try a different solvent.
If we were talking about a benchrest or highpower competition rifle, then the bore scratches would be something to avoid in the future as much as possible. Start cleaning the barrel with bore guides so the rod can't scratch.
The dent thing is hard to say without seeing it. If your gun shoots, and its a pistol, this dent probably isn't a real big deal. Almost assuredly not worth $200, especially if the gun still functions and puts bullets more or less where you point them.
On the other hand, there is one caveat that can render all of the above advice immaterial: Are you going to be less confident of your weapon if you don't change the barrel? Because if you are, change the barrel. Be absolutely confident in your weapon, it'll help you respond better if you ever need to respond.
Thought I'd get a reply in quick before it gets moved, so here goes.
If we're talking about a pistol barrel, I sincerely doubt that some scratches from a cleaning rod will interfere with your reliability. Especially if you can only see them with a bore scope. If you're really uncomfortable with the barrel, you could see if you could get it lapped. but it probably isn't worth the effort or the money.
As far as the fouling goes, I'd say try a different solvent.
If we were talking about a benchrest or highpower competition rifle, then the bore scratches would be something to avoid in the future as much as possible. Start cleaning the barrel with bore guides so the rod can't scratch.
The dent thing is hard to say without seeing it. If your gun shoots, and its a pistol, this dent probably isn't a real big deal. Almost assuredly not worth $200, especially if the gun still functions and puts bullets more or less where you point them.
On the other hand, there is one caveat that can render all of the above advice immaterial: Are you going to be less confident of your weapon if you don't change the barrel? Because if you are, change the barrel. Be absolutely confident in your weapon, it'll help you respond better if you ever need to respond.
American By Blood
Member
When CSI finds the bullet from that through-and-through in the wall...
I keed, I keed.
I keed, I keed.
Ohen Cepel
Member
Unless the weapon is giving real poor accuracy I wouldn't think about it.
I think the money is better spent on ammo and practice.
I've been reading Elmer Keith's book and he talks about a rifle of his missing about 6in of rifling in the middle of the barrel. However, it still hit dead on (and he did a lot of shooting and was a critical guy on his rifles).
I honestly wouldn't worry about it unless the accuracy is shoot. Even then, I would keep it for practice and shooting cheap ammo through it.
I think the money is better spent on ammo and practice.
I've been reading Elmer Keith's book and he talks about a rifle of his missing about 6in of rifling in the middle of the barrel. However, it still hit dead on (and he did a lot of shooting and was a critical guy on his rifles).
I honestly wouldn't worry about it unless the accuracy is shoot. Even then, I would keep it for practice and shooting cheap ammo through it.
larry_minn
Member
If you said type of weapons that would help. Don't see how it would affect reliability. Cousin has a S&W M-19 (.357 mag) with a belled barrel. He was shooting action and got a primer only rd. Next shot fired before he realized and instant bell. Thing still is very accurate. My guess he has fired couple thousand rds thru it since then. (heck I fired 30 myself as it has nice trigger)
Low-Sci
Member
With a 3" barrel, its not really about accuracy, as it were. Its about putting a big chunk of metal into someone who's relatively close. Not much accuracy required or implied.
Accuracy and reliability are separate entities. Take the AK-47 for example. Ridiculously reliable. Famously reliable. Accurate? You could do better.
Actually, in my experience, accuracy and reliability tend to work, in the field, as an inverse proportion. The more accurate your gun is, almost by necessity the more precise the parts are and the fits are, which leaves less room for damage, debris, etc. A benchrest rifle will drive tacks, but get some debris in the action and you're likely to have reliability issues. Conversely, With less precise fits, there's more room for error and debris and damage, which results in better reliability, but it also means that the parts don't always locate in exactly the same place, which means a final result of reduced accuracy.
Think of it like race cars. A Ferrari is fast as hell. But toss it in a desert and see if it beats out a baha racer. reverse the situation and see if the baja buggy can lose without being embarassed.
A Formula 1 handles tight and fast on a clean racetrack. It's precise, which makes the difference between a win and a loss on an F1 track. Get sand in something, and its screwed.
An offroad baja racetruck is designed for handling offroad. Its not as fast, not as precise, but that means it doesn't break down in the sand.
A
Accuracy and reliability are separate entities. Take the AK-47 for example. Ridiculously reliable. Famously reliable. Accurate? You could do better.
Actually, in my experience, accuracy and reliability tend to work, in the field, as an inverse proportion. The more accurate your gun is, almost by necessity the more precise the parts are and the fits are, which leaves less room for damage, debris, etc. A benchrest rifle will drive tacks, but get some debris in the action and you're likely to have reliability issues. Conversely, With less precise fits, there's more room for error and debris and damage, which results in better reliability, but it also means that the parts don't always locate in exactly the same place, which means a final result of reduced accuracy.
Think of it like race cars. A Ferrari is fast as hell. But toss it in a desert and see if it beats out a baha racer. reverse the situation and see if the baja buggy can lose without being embarassed.
A Formula 1 handles tight and fast on a clean racetrack. It's precise, which makes the difference between a win and a loss on an F1 track. Get sand in something, and its screwed.
An offroad baja racetruck is designed for handling offroad. Its not as fast, not as precise, but that means it doesn't break down in the sand.
A
rangerruck
Member
o would use a foam cleaner, and let it sit for 20 min. repeat this 3 times. then plug up the ends, with some more soaking in there. clean thoroughly. Then i would plug up the muzzle, stand it on end , muzzle down, and pour in some moly synthetic lubricant. Leave it outside , in your garage, in the heat for a week. then check it again, also fire it , see if it is better.
bogie
Member
A 3" .45?
Why worry?
Clean the thing nicely, and keep everything lubed, and it'll function just fine.
DO NOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, USE AN ALUMINUM CLEANING ROD.
Yeah, they sell them. Doesn't mean you need to use 'em.
Why worry?
Clean the thing nicely, and keep everything lubed, and it'll function just fine.
DO NOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, USE AN ALUMINUM CLEANING ROD.
Yeah, they sell them. Doesn't mean you need to use 'em.
Medusa
Member
If the barrel doesn't affect reliability and accuracy by your standards, then let it be, especially if it's a handgun.
Don't buy a aluminium rod, buy a decent spring-steel, polymer coated cleaning rod instead. Do not use plain rods without rod guide, also if the rod is bent or scratced.
rustymaggot
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bogie, why not use aluminum cleaning rod?
Medusa
Member
It bends easily under pressure, like hard pushing, Rustymaggot, and as it can be quite elastic you may not see that it has bended, Al gets scratched easily and then the rod is rough at this place, producing metal bits and collects other grit, this starts to rub in the barrel (if the shooter has a habit of hard pushing) and all the grit and roughs starts to scratch and wear the barrel. That's the basic version IMHO, anyway if here's any gunsmith then feel free to correct me.
I just use regular factory bullets. Mainly from Federal either in 230 gr or 165 gr. When i looked at it close i think it is a mixture copper and lead fouling. I forgot to mention that i went i think 3months without cleaning it after i put 60 or so rounds through it. Maybe or is the reason why its so hard to remove. Im thinking of tryin the Iosso bore cleaner next. If that doesnt work i am going to switch to more stronger copper solvents.
Ball 3006 I dont if its dirt. If it is, is it suppose to stick to the bore? And i tried a lot of methods to try and get rid of the fouling. I used phosphor and nylon brushes (i stay away from steel brushes) i soaked it for a night and used various copper and non solvents. A little bit did come off and when i looked at the patch it was like brownish black. But the fouling remains in the bore.
06
Member
Some quality time with a bore brush/solvent will get rid of it. Try not to leave it dirty so long or so often-makes cleaning easier if done regularly. Are the land's edges still pronounced? What size group do you have at 50 feet from a rested site? Make sure your aiming is exactly the same each shot.
LeonCarr
Member
Try using a chore boy type copper pot scrubber, cut into 1 1/2- 2 inch squares and wrapped around an old .45 bore brush, and run it back and forth through the barrel several times. This will not scratch the barrel, and does a great job of removing lead fouling. Try that, and if it removes the lead fouling use a good bore solvent (I like Shooter's Choice) after that.
Just my .02,
LeonCarr
Just my .02,
LeonCarr
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bogie
Member
Why not to use aluminum cleaning rods:
The exterior oxidizes. This is called aluminum oxide (doh...). It is abrasive, and actually harder than the aluminum that it is attached to, but it'll come off.
Also, the "carbon fiber" rods may look ultra tacticool, but consider this...
You're using a solvent that'll dissolve carbon in your barrel. You've got it on your rod. Think of what it's gonna do to the rod. That isn't pretty.
Use something that will do the job on copper and carbon. I like Butch Fisher's mix for copper, and I've been hearing great things about Tom Meredith's mix for the carbon (and copper...).
The exterior oxidizes. This is called aluminum oxide (doh...). It is abrasive, and actually harder than the aluminum that it is attached to, but it'll come off.
Also, the "carbon fiber" rods may look ultra tacticool, but consider this...
You're using a solvent that'll dissolve carbon in your barrel. You've got it on your rod. Think of what it's gonna do to the rod. That isn't pretty.
Use something that will do the job on copper and carbon. I like Butch Fisher's mix for copper, and I've been hearing great things about Tom Meredith's mix for the carbon (and copper...).
I wouldn't concern myself with the .45 barrel. A general rule of thumb for full-size .45s is replace when you can't see the rifling anymore. Yes, you can shoot one to a smoothbore, I don't think anyone gets that much trigger time with a 3" gun. The dent? I had a Sistema barrel that was a rifled dent. I had to use it as an expedient replacement while I awaited a new barrel. Worked great. Outers makes a nylon flexible chamber brush, works great for cleaning pistol barrels.
The .22? Why clean it? You will never get lead fouling and the waxy bullet lube protects your bore. If you really wanted to oil it for storage use a cord pull-through and patch. No need to clean a .22LR barrel unless you expose it to the elements. All a cleaning rod does is wipe away your accuracy. If I saw someone touch my Marvel .22 with a cleaning rod I'd kick them where it hurts. Clean the action so it runs. Leave the barrel alone!
The .22? Why clean it? You will never get lead fouling and the waxy bullet lube protects your bore. If you really wanted to oil it for storage use a cord pull-through and patch. No need to clean a .22LR barrel unless you expose it to the elements. All a cleaning rod does is wipe away your accuracy. If I saw someone touch my Marvel .22 with a cleaning rod I'd kick them where it hurts. Clean the action so it runs. Leave the barrel alone!
here's an interesting article on a sig p220 subjected to a 10k round torture test. accuracy started to fall even tho the gun was cleaned every 1k rounds so the sig rep suggested cleaning the bore with a bore cleaning product:
http://www.galleryofguns.com/ShootingTimes/Articles/DisplayArticles.asp?ID=1230
http://www.galleryofguns.com/ShootingTimes/Articles/DisplayArticles.asp?ID=1230
No, not an idiot, just probably doing un-necessary work. Over time you will kill the barrel if not really careful. PM responded to.
I noted happily that the Marine Corps makes their personnel clean M-16s from the breech as is correct. Other services are not so strict. I think they all clean too much, You'd think some of the bolt carriers I saw were stainless steel, they'd been scrubbed so much they were shiny.
I noted happily that the Marine Corps makes their personnel clean M-16s from the breech as is correct. Other services are not so strict. I think they all clean too much, You'd think some of the bolt carriers I saw were stainless steel, they'd been scrubbed so much they were shiny.
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