when to get custom dials
- Thread starter mainecoon
- Start date
- Status
Chuck R.
Member
Do you man the CDS Dials??
IF so, then yes, they are based on a specific loads and to some extent environmental conditions for expected use.
https://www.leupold.com/dials
What I have done is a complete load development, averaged out the conditions where I'm most likely to use the rifle, and used that data for the free dial that comes with the scope. It works pretty well for normal hunting & 3GUN match distances, it is more accurate than using a BDC reticle. It is pretty fast to use, no looking up data on a dope card taped to your gun, just turn to the range mark on the turret. I have a couple scopes with combinations of BDC reticles and CDS dials. Great combo for shooting fast. One is on my 3GUN carbine. Varying distance targets I go with the BDC, IF I've got time, I turn the dial. Minute of steel plate consistently out to 500 yards.
But keep in mind you're not going to get the same accuracy you'll get by connecting a Kestrel to a ballistic app and clicking in due to the weather & elevation deltas and IF you're using a temp sensitive powder add that variable to the mix also. I don't bother buying a second dial for those reasons.
I just mounted a VX6HD 2-12X BDC FireDot on a new .270 and will not be bothering with the custom dial. I can use the BDC when time is critical and will click in using a dope card when I have time.
IF so, then yes, they are based on a specific loads and to some extent environmental conditions for expected use.
https://www.leupold.com/dials
What I have done is a complete load development, averaged out the conditions where I'm most likely to use the rifle, and used that data for the free dial that comes with the scope. It works pretty well for normal hunting & 3GUN match distances, it is more accurate than using a BDC reticle. It is pretty fast to use, no looking up data on a dope card taped to your gun, just turn to the range mark on the turret. I have a couple scopes with combinations of BDC reticles and CDS dials. Great combo for shooting fast. One is on my 3GUN carbine. Varying distance targets I go with the BDC, IF I've got time, I turn the dial. Minute of steel plate consistently out to 500 yards.
But keep in mind you're not going to get the same accuracy you'll get by connecting a Kestrel to a ballistic app and clicking in due to the weather & elevation deltas and IF you're using a temp sensitive powder add that variable to the mix also. I don't bother buying a second dial for those reasons.
I just mounted a VX6HD 2-12X BDC FireDot on a new .270 and will not be bothering with the custom dial. I can use the BDC when time is critical and will click in using a dope card when I have time.
Last edited:
The custom dials are for a specific bullet at a specific velocity. In my opinion they are not necessary for big game hunting. The difference in trajectory between most modern cartridges firing pointed bullets isn't enough to cause you to miss a big game animal at "normal" hunting ranges. By normal I mean out to 300-400 yards. There will only be 3-4" at most difference in point of impact between most of them and when shooting at targets with a 12-18" kill zone that isn't enough to worry about.
For hunting I like scopes with multiple aiming points better anyway. It is faster and easier to use and accurate enough. On scopes with dials I plug the numbers into a ballistics program to figure out roughly the amount I'll need to move dials then shoot at the range to either confirm or fine tune. Then record the data for later use.
For hunting I like scopes with multiple aiming points better anyway. It is faster and easier to use and accurate enough. On scopes with dials I plug the numbers into a ballistics program to figure out roughly the amount I'll need to move dials then shoot at the range to either confirm or fine tune. Then record the data for later use.
Ks5shooter
Contributing Member
I am going to get the CDS dial because one is included with my scope just to do an experiment to see how well they work. Cool little project I think.
Chuck R.
Member
I am going to get the CDS dial because one is included with my scope just to do an experiment to see how well they work. Cool little project I think.
IMHO IF you do your homework up front and provide Leupold the data, they work pretty well. In addition to mine, a friend of mine has a couple on a .300WSM and .270WSM (both Nosler M48s). Prior to hunting season we'll drive about in my UTV engaging steel plates from 200-600 yards (variable distance) on my backyard range. Just stop, laze and shoot from field positions. He generally has more 1st round hits than I do with a BDC reticle. Where I'm holding a dot on 530yds, which in actuality is a 500yd dot, but really 547yd value due to my cartridge, he's clicking in to between 500 and 550yds as his dial is marked.
Biggest problem I've encountered with mine is the "sooner or later changing the load/bullet effect".....
Varminterror
Member
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2016
- Messages
- 14,857
Custom dials fail in many of the same ways as any drop compensating reticle. The knob is marked to correspond with one ballistic solution - one bullet velocity and ballistic coefficient, in one environmental condition. If you never hunt anywhere other than your home field, only in similar environmental conditions (pretty difficult to control this one), and never expect to really be dialed perfectly, then they can be usable. A few years ago, I called coyotes in 3 states over a 2wk period where I varied elevation by 6000ft and temperature by 50 degrees.
I called at home in Kansas, then Arizona at the same elevation as home, but higher temp, Colorado at the same temp as home, but higher elevation. My zero didn’t shift at all, but the combination of the temperature sensitivity of my powder and the change in environmental conditions meant I had 4-6” difference in drop at 600yrds. I had a range card at the time for use at home, but it was wrong in both Arizona and Colorado... I had to make a new version for those hunts. Pretty easy to write numbers on a piece of paper while I was flying between locations, but it’s a little different story to order new dials just to correct for a couple 5 day hunting trips.
Naturally, you can count clicks away from the standard numbers on your custom dial to correct for environmentals, but if that’s the game, why bother with the custom dials at all? Is it actually different to dial an extra click above 2.2mils, instead of an extra click above 500yrds? What if the coyote in my scope isn’t at 500, but is really at 543yrds? I have to know how many clicks to dial past 500, oh yeah, and then know how many clicks up or down from there to correct for environmentals... There are no free lunches - gotta know enough about your real trajectory to make your estimate based on the actual range in the field, under the real environmental conditions of the shot.
Free is free, in the case of the CDS dials offered for many Leupold scopes. But a waste of time is a waste of time, and money spent for nothing still gets you nothing.
I called at home in Kansas, then Arizona at the same elevation as home, but higher temp, Colorado at the same temp as home, but higher elevation. My zero didn’t shift at all, but the combination of the temperature sensitivity of my powder and the change in environmental conditions meant I had 4-6” difference in drop at 600yrds. I had a range card at the time for use at home, but it was wrong in both Arizona and Colorado... I had to make a new version for those hunts. Pretty easy to write numbers on a piece of paper while I was flying between locations, but it’s a little different story to order new dials just to correct for a couple 5 day hunting trips.
Naturally, you can count clicks away from the standard numbers on your custom dial to correct for environmentals, but if that’s the game, why bother with the custom dials at all? Is it actually different to dial an extra click above 2.2mils, instead of an extra click above 500yrds? What if the coyote in my scope isn’t at 500, but is really at 543yrds? I have to know how many clicks to dial past 500, oh yeah, and then know how many clicks up or down from there to correct for environmentals... There are no free lunches - gotta know enough about your real trajectory to make your estimate based on the actual range in the field, under the real environmental conditions of the shot.
Free is free, in the case of the CDS dials offered for many Leupold scopes. But a waste of time is a waste of time, and money spent for nothing still gets you nothing.
Legionnaire
Contributing Member
Varminterror summarized my thinking well. I have a couple of CDS scopes, but have never ordered a custom dial.
Skylerbone
Member
I have a pair of VX-2s, a discontinued line, both CDS models and neither has a custom dial to date. I’ve considered ordering the dials, both for use with one or the other in order to have two loads, or more aptly, two “conditions” available for the same rifle (my daughter’s). At her skill level and speed I think the CDS might allow for a less fuss solution when I’m glassing.
They weren’t really free as the price figured in the cost at purchase time so there’s no harm in ordering and I did witness their effectiveness at distance while hunting with my father. He being an old school inside 200 or forget it type, managed two for two at 423 yards standing with a tiny dead tree for support.
When I say tiny and dead, the branch initially broke from the weight of his rifle being rested on it and again between shots but as he’ll never read wind or make a card, CDS gave him a smidgen of confidence he might have lacked without. He confessed later those shots were the furthest he had fired in 40 years since leaving the military.
Still wearing their OEM dials, the unmounted one I set back in its box and have yet to find a good home for.
They weren’t really free as the price figured in the cost at purchase time so there’s no harm in ordering and I did witness their effectiveness at distance while hunting with my father. He being an old school inside 200 or forget it type, managed two for two at 423 yards standing with a tiny dead tree for support.
When I say tiny and dead, the branch initially broke from the weight of his rifle being rested on it and again between shots but as he’ll never read wind or make a card, CDS gave him a smidgen of confidence he might have lacked without. He confessed later those shots were the furthest he had fired in 40 years since leaving the military.
Still wearing their OEM dials, the unmounted one I set back in its box and have yet to find a good home for.
Last edited:
Skylerbone
Member
POI between loads may only be a few inches but at 425 yards the drop is considerable. Aiming at a deer’s back will garner you a gut shot or clean miss if your scope has no other solution ie BDC or dial. If no, you’d still be checking and doping for a theoretically more accurate placement or recalling which hold-over to use while fighting the brain’s tendency to center the target (animal) inside a round scope tube with (often) a center crosshairs.
The CDS can be adjusted in a few seconds with the rifle rested in your lap or on a bipod so I wouldn’t say speed of deployment is an issue, only fine accuracy and of course being a Leupold, it won’t track like a Nightforce year after year. For prairie dogs I’d say pick something else entirely, but for large game you’re likely in the kill zone if your range finder works.
Again mine were bought with a pre-teen in mind with more concern for Monica and Chandler than guns and ammo. One sits on her .22 rimfire, the other will probably top her 6.5, and both dials ordered for the centerfire.
Chuck R.
Member
Cmon, everybody knows 425 is a top of the ears shot........
Top of the back, hold on hair is a 300+....
Nature Boy
Member
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2015
- Messages
- 8,228
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
