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Which 6 MM Rifle and Cartridge?

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by medic68, Apr 14, 2019.

  1. Varminterror

    Varminterror Member

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    I expect a 243win to slip velocity and start spreading around 850. I expect 1400-1500 from a 6 creed.

    Ain’t difficult doubling barrel life when we’re talking such small numbers.
     
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  2. FL-NC

    FL-NC Member

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    I have 2 hunting rifles- a 243 and a 6.5 CM. I don't care for recoil, but I feel with these 2 rifles, I can address any critter I'm going to hunt in the US.
     
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  3. lightman

    lightman Member

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    I wrestled with this question when I decided to build a custom 6mm varmint rifle. I considered a 6PPC because of the accuracy, a 6BR for the same reason, a 6mm Remington for the velocity and finally settled on a fast twist 243. The 243 has decent velocity, is fairly well respected in the accuracy department and there is lots of good brass available, including Lapua. The 6CM was not on the scene at that time but I probably would still go either 6BR or 243.
     
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  4. Fiv3r

    Fiv3r Member

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    I saw Rural King has the 6.5 CM Ruger Predator on sale this week.

    I'm kinda tempted. I dont really need a hunting cartridge, but I'm down a bolt action gun. Sounds like a fun pinker with some performance to match.

    The last bolt gun I had was a Mosin Nagant with a metal buttplate. Should be a pussycat compared to that thumper.
     
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  5. Steel Horse Rider

    Steel Horse Rider Member

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    6mm Remington. Find a Remington 788 bolt action in 6mm Remington and you can shoot the heads off of snapping turtles at 100 yards, which is what I did with the one I purchased in 1973.....
     
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  6. stillquietvoice

    stillquietvoice Member

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    243 win got me back into hunting. I've joked that it's recoil is like getting hit with a piece of paper. I bought mine used reloading for it made it a 1/2 to 3/4 inch gun, but being used it already had some throat erosion. So to get accuracy I had to load over sami Max oal. One great feature of savage rifles is a generous mag length so my 2.7" coal still fed through the mag.

    The 1 in 9 twist even stabilized some 105 gr bullets.
     
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  7. jmr40

    jmr40 Member

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    If you're gonna shoot at 600 you can take advantage of much better bullets in the 6 CM than 243.

    It isn't about weight, it's length. A 105 target bullet is going to be much longer, and not work in a 1:9 twist barrel. A shorter 105gr hunting bullet will.

    I know some people get tired of hearing about it, but there is a reason the 6.5 CM is popular. You can MAKE a lot of other options do pretty much the same thing with enough time, money and effort. Everything is just a lot simpler with either the 6 CM or 6.5CM. At this point the 6.5 version is established and will be around for my great grand kids. The 6 CM, I'm not sure yet. No one will ever notice the difference in recoil between 260, 243, 6CM and 6.5CM. They are all within 1-2 ft lbs of each other. Most people can't distinguish any difference until you get to 4-5 ft lbs greater recoil
     
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  8. mshootnit

    mshootnit Member

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  9. LRDGCO

    LRDGCO Member

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    Sooooooooooo turn of the century. 27-08. It's Da Bomb!

    Honestly, if you dig .260 Rem, then 6.5 Creedmoor is the answer. They are ballistic twins and the Creedmoor was designed as the " .260 Moderne " - allowing use of VLD bullets that won't load in the .260 magazine. Virtually every rifle under the sun is chambered in it and components abound.

    Of course, the correct answer is that grande dame, The Swede. But affordable rifle options do not abound.
     
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  10. medic68

    medic68 Member

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    I've been pouring over Chuck Hawks Recoil Tables and there's a lot of truth in what your saying. Thanks
     
  11. medic68

    medic68 Member

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    The Swede with a 140 grain at 2700 fps rolls in at 12.1 f p of recoil on the Hawks chart, the .243 100 grain @ 2960 fps rates 8.8. My .300 WIN is somewhere in the 25 f p and that's what's prompted this saga. My biggest problem is finding a rifle that I'm comfortable with. I appreciate all of the information you folks are shooting my way, it's got me glued to some reference work reading about your suggestions. Thanks!
     
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  12. troy fairweather

    troy fairweather Member

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    what rifle is your 300wm?
     
  13. mshootnit

    mshootnit Member

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    Its a zero sum game if the mag length doesn't change. One touts longer bullets, the other more powder capacity. Take your pick. The 6.5 claims to solve the problem of bullet intrusion into the case, and they do this by eliminating that part of the case. Sounds like a great idea to me.
     
  14. Gtscotty

    Gtscotty Member

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    Imagine two different cartridges loaded with the same, long bullet to a magazine length of 2.82". One has the bullet seated deep into the case to fit in the mag, leaving the bullet .2" off the lands with no room for adjustment, the bullet ogive may also be below the case mouth. The same bullet can be seated in the other case all the way to the lands, or deeper, wherever best accuracy is found, all at mag length or less. Both cases have about the same net case capacity loaded to mag length. Which case is preferable? It's not really a zero sum game, for factory rifles and limited mag lengths, one is better and one is worse.

    OP,
    Is this rifle for hunting, or just for range shooting? If you plan to use it for hunting, what animals do you plan to shoot at what ranges? If it's just for targets and steel, even the lowly .223 can be a lot of fun at 600 yds and in as long as the wind isn't too bad.

    If you want to do some hunting and range shooting, a 6.5mm or 6mm would be a good bet. I'd never suggest anyone buy a .260 over a 6.5 Creedmoor, you'd have to look much harder to find rifles/ammo, and wind up with an inferior package for your extra effort.

    In 6mms, I would personally lean towards the 6mm Creedmoor, it's a better design for shooting heavy bullets out of the box, but unlike in the case of the 6.5s, the 6mm Creedmoor is not nearly as popular (yet?) as the .243. If you do go with a .243, be sure to get one with a decent twist rate. You couldn't give me another .243 with a 10 twist, been there and done that, it really gimps the cartridge for heavy bullet use.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2019
  15. rayatphonix

    rayatphonix Member

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    Nobody has mentioned it, but there’s also the option of a Howa 6.5 Grendel. It has less recoil than any of the other choices mentioned, works well as a range rifle, and is a good hunting rifle at ranges most people hunt at.
     
  16. medic68

    medic68 Member

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    It's an old Browning A bolt medallion with Leupold VX-3. 3.5X10X50 scope.
     
  17. Varminterror

    Varminterror Member

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    Good call out. The CZ or Ruger American as well. I haven’t quite developed the habit of recommending the Grendel, maybe only because the Howa wasn’t great for what I was trying to do, and there’s not a lot else out there for 6.5 Grendel rifles, but this round really should be considered.

    I have said for probably 10-15years now, the 243win is (and those like it are) probably the most efficient and effective deer hunting round(s) on the market. No concessions needed for typical 0-600yrds, any shot I would take on a deer with a 30-06, I would take with a 243win. It did take me about 10yrs of hunting deer with larger rounds and only dabbling with the 243win for whitetails to reach that realization. Now after ~15years with the Grendel, I’m realizing it’s becoming my new “ground floor” for deer hunting. Any shot I would take on whitetail deer while hunting in typical conditions, excluding a highly engineered long range hunt where I wouldn’t even choose a .30-06, I would be happy to take with a 6.5 Grendel. It also carries with it ~25% less powder use, lower recoil, and less blast than the 243win, 6mm Creed rifles.

    As our country is healing from the magnumitus of generations past, folks are realizing how effective these smaller cartridges really are when paired with modern bullet designs and utilizing higher external ballistic understanding than the past.
     
  18. medic68

    medic68 Member

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    Will be used for both range and hunting. We also have a burgeoning population of dogs in NW Utah and I had hoped to start thinning them out on some property a buddy of mine owns ;) . Looking at the Hawks charts, in an 8 pound weapon, the .243 rolling a 75 grain pill at 3400 fps generates 7.2 and maxes at 11.0 (95 grain @3100 fps) f p of recoil, that doable. I can't find any figures for the 6.5 Creedmoor but I can't believe it's over those numbers looking at the Grendel.
     
  19. medic68

    medic68 Member

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    OK folks, the .260 Remington and .243 are off the table for all of the reasons noted......... Mahalos all the input! Let's talk 6.5 Creedmore vs Grendel and a sub 1K, non-AR platform to launch 'em.
     
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  20. medic68

    medic68 Member

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    Side note: There is a SERIOUS discrepancy between what folks post on various long range forums about their in the field experience and what the manufactures and book writers post. I'm more inclined to not read anything the manufacturers have to say :cuss:
     
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  21. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    lol, but a lot of truth to this.
     
  22. Gtscotty

    Gtscotty Member

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    What didn't you like about the Howa mini? Most reviews I've read thus far have been pretty positive.
     
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  23. Varminterror

    Varminterror Member

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    @Gtscotty - I almost hesitate to mention I had owned one, because I don’t think it is really fair to the rifle. The fact I got rid of it makes it seem like there’s something inherently wrong with it, which really isn’t the case.

    I bought it with the intent to use it for a few specific purposes:

    1) Precision Competition practice rifle
    2) Long range trainer for my son
    3) Deep bench back-up or fun-match fun-gun Precision Rifle Competition Rifle
    4) ‘Cuz this is A-freakin’-merica and I like trying new rifles

    For what I wanted to do, the 6.5 Grendel is a bit lacking, and the magazines and feeding for the Howa were sub-ideal, plus some challenges getting exactly the right kitting together how I wanted it.

    For a hunting rifle, and casual plinking rifle, the Howa Mini Grendel will certainly put a smile on your face, and envy in your buddies’ hearts.
     
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  24. rayatphonix

    rayatphonix Member

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    Medic, I’ve got multiple rifles in Creedmoor and Grendel. Between the two, that’s probably 80% of my shooting. Both Grendels are CZs. One I put together and the other is stock. They’re a blast to shoot and like Verminterror, have become my deer rifle in many areas. I didn’t mention the CZ because of your original price point.

    I’m not sure what to say about the Creedmoor that hasn’t been said many times over. Whenever I deer hunt and need a deer DRT, that’s my choice. I got my first Creedmoor around 2011 or 2012 when Ruger did a small run of them. I enjoyed it so much I’ve bought a couple of bolt action rifles in that chamber and all shoot well.

    I’ll be happy to answer any questions you may have.
     
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  25. Varminterror

    Varminterror Member

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    I bought a couple of 6.5 creeds before the 6 creed came out. It’ll do what you need, but will have more recoil than the 6 creed or 6.5 Grendel would have.

    Between the 6/6.5 creeds or 6.5 Grendel for what you’re describing, eh, I didn’t want to choose, so I have all of them. Even have a 6mm Grendel variant coming together nicely to have all 4 in the safe together. I shot my buck last winter with a 6.5 Grendel, shot my buck this winter with a 6 creed. Tastes the same either way.
     
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