Which snub/snubs should I keep

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chaim

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OK, I've made no secret that I'm not a big snub revolver fan. They are probably the hardest guns to learn to shoot accurately, and I'd rather put that practice time into other more enjoyable guns. The recoil isn't fun (especially in the lightweight versions) and it isn't just a matter of "manning up" since that translates into longer recoil recovery and slower follow up shots. So, slower follow up shots, and lower practical accuracy, plus only 5-round capacity, means I long ago retired them from my home defense and carry selection of guns.

I was going to sell all of them, but as I do every few years, I recently re-examined my assumptions, training and philosophy around carry and home defense. When I did carry a snub revolver, I often carried a 2nd as a backup (Taurus 85CH IWB, S&W 442 pocket carried). When I retired my snubs I planned to use my LCP as a backup, but due to all I carry in my pockets I don't like losing a pocket to pocket carry and stopped carrying a BUG. Now, I'm a fan of capacity, but my first criteria is to carry what I shoot best. It used to be to carry what I shoot well and carried DAO, but I've modified that back to carrying/using for HD what I shoot best . So, I will again be carrying 1911s, which doesn't really solve the desire for capacity, so I'm thinking about at least occasionally carrying a backup when I carry. Well, I do have some autos that will work as a BUG, but few guns do the BUG job better than a small framed revolver.

So, I will be keeping one, maybe two (but probably just one) of my snubs. So, now I have to decide which one (or two) stay and which 2 or 3 go.

Taurus 85CH
Pros:
  • It is the one that started me on my snub buying spree over a few years that lead me to having 4 of a type I don't particularly love. It is probably my favorite of the bunch.
  • It has been 100% reliable for me (I've had it for about a decade, give or take a year or two)
  • The concealed hammer and J-frame size is great for concealability
  • The weight and .38spl chambering gives it decent recoil absorption (maybe the best combination of small/lightweight for concealment and heavy enough to shoot comfortably as you'll get in a snub)
Cons
  • While it has been 100% reliable, experiences with my Taurus PT140 M. Pro and 2" Rossi 461 (as well as reading similar experiences of others) make me leary of trusting my life to a Taurus product. Though it was made in 1991 so issues with current production Taurus products may not be a problem
  • It is a little heavy for pocket carry and some other BUG uses (but it works)
  • 5 rounds
S&W 442
Pros:
  • It has been 100% reliable
  • Slightly smaller than the 85 (1 7/8" v. 2" barrel, no barrel shroud)
  • Lightweight (15oz) aluminum construction makes it perfect in a pocket, ankle holster, or in other BUG applications
Cons:
  • Lightweight- it is uncomfortable to practice with most .38 ammo and +P is as uncomfortable as .357mag in my 2" Rossi
  • 5 rounds
Rossi 461 (2")
Pros:
  • 6 shots instead of 5
  • Heavier than the others so it is comfortable with all .38spl and most +P
  • Chambered in .357mag
Cons:
  • A bit bigger and heavier than the previous revolvers so not as good for a deeply concealed BUG
  • Too big and heavy for all but short time periods in a pocket or ankle holster
  • I've had some reliability issues that keep me from trusting it (all with .357mag ammo, but who knows if it may sometime start happening with my chosen .38+P defensive ammo)
  • Uncomfortable (as well as unreliable) with .357mag ammo
Rossi 461 (3")
Pros:
  • I love a 3" revolver, more sight radius and better performance out of defensive ammo
  • So far, it has given me no trouble (I haven't shot it much though, and I've shot no magnum yet)
  • Chambered in .357mag
  • 6 rounds
Cons:
  • I don't trust it. It hasn't given me any trouble, but the issues I've had with the 2" 461 (and from reading, those issues are fairly common with current production Rossi and Taurus revolvers) make it hard for me to trust it (it hasn't given me any trouble, yet).
  • It is pretty big and heavy (6 shot cylinder, 3" barrel) for a small framed snub and too big to be a BUG.

Note:
If I do decide I trust and want to keep the 3" Rossi, I'll be keeping two snubs for sure. The 3" is big enough to be a primary on the belt and too big to be a BUG. Similarly, if I decide for practical reasons that I should keep the 442, I might also keep the Taurus 85CH as a "trainer" since it is more comfortable to shoot a box or two out of the steel framed 85 than it is to shoot a cylinder or two out of the aluminum framed 442 (though I could just brew up some pretty weak hand loads that aren't bad out of the 442).
 
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chaim

If I were going to go with one snubnose revolver it would be the S&W Model 442. Much like the Model 638 I have for concealed carry it is lightweight, 100% reliable, and extremely well suited for pocket carry. I would get rid of the Rossi's (though I doubt you'll get a whole lot for them), and keep the Taurus 85CH as a back-up.

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They aren't particularly valuable guns. Sale/trade value is likely to be insultingly poor.

I'd say keep them all and try to figure out something to do with them. Bug-out bag, car gun (if you have a way to secure it), etc.
 
Since you no longer carry a BUG but want to, and you don't want to pocket carry due to the list pocket space, I would keep the M442 and carry on your ankle as a BUG. As you already said, the M442 is a good choice for ankle carry.

A M442 happens to be my daily carry gun.
 
I'd keep the S&W. It's light enough that you will probably carry it most times rather than not cause it's too bulky or heavy.

Me? Mine's a .38 Charter Arms Undercover I've had for more than 30 years
 
Oh, I should mention how I plan to carry a backup since I don't like pocket carry (too many things I usually carry in my pockets would need to be left home). I will occasionally carry in my pocket, in which case my 85CH would be fine. Though, especially when spending a lot of time in the car or otherwise sitting, I plan to use an ankle holster (if I can get used to it, that will probably become my main BUG carry). I'm also thinking weak side IWB or some kind of bag style carry (probably no fanny packs since I don't like them, but maybe the "Sneaky Pete"). The Sneaky Pete needs something small and I'm not sure even a 5-shot snub is small enough for it not to be too big, so I may just hold my nose and get a fanny pack for a BUG, at least while on vacation.

As for strict need, I can probably get rid of all of them and use the money to help me get a 3" L-frame or another 4" K-frame (I haven't had one in some time). I have a Ruger LCP (which I will replace with something with better sights, maybe a SIG P238 or Colt Mustang, but I'm not quite sure) and a SIG P290RS which can do pocket or ankle duty. Just about any subcompact pistol and many compacts can do IWB weak side as a BUG while a 1911 Commander or Officer is IWB strong side as my primary. However, it seems that a small snub is the quintessential BUG, and I have several, so I figure I should keep one.


All that said, I am thinking another option. Sell them all and get another. I don't like the 5-shot capacity of the J-frame and similar, I don't like the recoil of a lightweight aluminum .38 and a steel frame is a little heavy for some BUG carry options. There are other possibilities.

After watching some ballistic gel tests on .22WMR out of a short barrel (all the tests I watched used a NAA revolver with a 2" ish barrel) I'm thinking that .22mag would be acceptable for a BUG (not a primary). In three tests I watched using common ammo, 1 expanded and 2 tumbled leaving a larger than caliber wound channel. Unlike the small auto calibers (including .380) the hollow points also had sufficient penetration (typically 14" or greater) and unlike FMJ .380, few overpenetrated.

So, I could possibly sell all of my snubs and use them to finance a S&W 351PD...7 rounds of .22mag, lightweight, and a hi-vis front sight. That may be the perfect BUG revolver.
 
If keeping two, Smith 442 and the 3" Rossi 357. I think that would be the best balance for pocket carry and belt carry. My personal preference is a Ruger SP101 and a Ruger LCP.
 
I cast my vote with those that suggest you keep them all.... And then start hiding your nickels and dimes away for your next purchase....

BOARHUNTER

Ps: Pick up a Smith 43C 22lr, and it will pay for itself in no time in ammo-cost savings. I did and am now saving lots of cash shooting my FOUR identical model 43Cs.... Those little guns are addictive.
 
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WOW! Someone posting a pic in a Thread about "snubs" that actually contains only true "snubs" .... not even one 2½" or 3" barrel amongst them.

I find that to be refreshing. Thanks, Alte Schule! :)

EDIT: OOPS! Just went back thru the Thread and came across the pics that bannockburn added via EDIT after I read his post earlier today. Thank you, sir! :)
 
GBExpat said:
WOW! Someone posting a pic in a Thread about "snubs" that actually contains only true "snubs" .... not even one 2½" or 3" barrel amongst them.

I find that to be refreshing. Thanks, Alte Schule! :)

EDIT: OOPS! Just went back thru the Thread and came across the pics that bannockburn added via EDIT after I read his post earlier today. Thank you, sir! :)
Click to expand...
I agree with you sir. Over 2 inches and it ain't a true snub. My Colt Detective Special has a 2 inch barrel and my other true snub is a LCR in .327 with a 1.7 inch barrel. Had the LCR in .22 Mag. Loved the caliber hated the rimfire trigger.
 
This isn't really an answer to your OP question but it's an opinion based on having going through a similar process many years ago. Instead of worrying about a BG I elected to always carry a spare magazine and I practiced my reload until it became second nature and around 2 sec. to execute. That was faster than I could draw the M-60 I had at the time and it provided another 8 rounds in my Commander which comforted me way more than 5 rounds of 38 Special ever would. And like you, I never met anyone who could shoot a 2", 5-shot J-frame quickly and accurately.

Dave
 
As others have suggested, keep the 442. Throw a crimson trace grip on it while you're at it. I like the LG105 for maximum concealabilty but the 305 and 405 have their attributes as well. Some folks find that the 305 and 405 help mitigate recoil.
 
Keep the 442 - light and convenient to put in a pocket when you don't want to "gear up." Then keep the 3" 357 Rossi for those time when you feel like carrying... well, a... 3", steel, 6 shot, .357. :)
 
Keep the 85 and the 442. You can sell the Rossi but I would wait till we have a dem In office. Right now the gun market is flourishing and the resale value will be low. It doesn't help they aren't normal capacity bullet squirt guns. They will more likely than not always be legal to own. So the panic isn't in your favor.
 
sell em all and buy a old S&W m60/36 38spl and bob the hammer.
 
Taurus 85CH....It is probably my favorite of the bunch.
Click to expand...

That quote says it all.

I'm guessing that some people who'll advise you to keep a gun based on what brand it is won't even read your "pros" and "cons" lists. To them, the "pro" of a S&W is that it's a S&W, and the "con" of a Taurus is that it isn't a S&W. Not real rational thinking, given that you've said your favorite is the Taurus.

I can't say much about the Taurus era Rossi's, though, as I only have one - a 351. It's finish is decent and it works great, though I do wish the cylinder lock up was just a hair tighter. But that's the only on I've ever owned. The best Rossi's are from the late Interarms era, and the several I own are generally as good as my vintage Smith and Wesson revolvers in function and accuracy. Better in some cases. The Rossi's that are earlier than this era, however, can be somewhat crudely made, though still decent working guns. Certainly not at the level of S&W. I have a few of those, too, and I would describe them as "adequate" but not optimum.

So what happens if you ever have to send one of your S&W's back for repair? Will all other S&W's become suspect? Because I've had to send two back to the factory, and I certainly don't feel that way about S&W. Nor would I about Taurus era Rossi, necessarily. And spend just a few days at the S&W forum and you'll see threads about 442 problems.

But you're certainly correct to be suspicious of the Rossi that failed, and I'd be inclined to sell that one off (after the issue is addressed.) Kind of depends on the issue, though...a cylinder gap that's too tight is a whole different thing than a cylinder that won't rotate or is out of time. If the S&W is more saleable, then that might be the other gun to sell along with it. That'll leave you with a 5 shot .38 with a 2" barrel and a 6 shot .357 with a 3" barrel, and that's not too redundant.
 
I've shot a model eighty five and I own an Airweight. If one was to wear one on the ankle it should probably be the lighter of the two. I wholeheartedly endorse Taurus, I own two. However, if needed one won't care how nice the shot felt, just that it was there and did. I still recommend the Smith, but not on any perceived greater quality.
 
As someone who is thinking about selling off some of my handguns, I'll toss out a slightly different perspective.

First, keep the Taurus 85 (you like it best), and - maybe - the Rossi 3".

The reasons for my recommendation are as follows:

1. your EDC carry gun selection should be based on what works best for you, not brand name, not looks, not what will impress your friends. an EDC gun is a tool, and may be expendable given it will receive daily wear, and - if you ever have to use it - will likely be surrendered as evidence (at least for a time). so the Taurus 85 may be unloved by the gun community, but it works for you. my EDC and home protection guns are tools that work just fine for their purpose, but I couldn't sell them for much because they have issues, either cosmetic or brand.(beat up glocks, sig p250, bersa, old & worn S&W's, etc)

2. in the current market, you will be able to get more money selling the S&W because of the brand. this is somewhat counterintuitive, but it goes along with #1. (for my range guns, or guns I like to collect, I want and keep guns that are "loved" by the firearms community, because they hold their value better.)

3. for protection, don't keep a gun you don't trust. period. therefore the 2" Rossi is useless to you - not a range gun and not a defensive gun.

4. for practice and range use, the 3" Rossi may be worth keeping. i'd only keep it if a) it's useful at the range to practice shooting a snubbie AND you feel that practice translates to your 85, OR b) you fix whatever issues that cause you not to trust it - then it is both a range gun and a belt carry gun.

Full disclosure: Most of my handguns are semi-autos, but I currently own a S&W 642 with a larger grip for occasional belt carry, a Ruger LCR for occasional pocket carry, a Armscor M206 for a car gun, and some S&W Model 10's for range guns. I've owned and sold a Taurus 85 and a couple of Rossi 68's.

but opinions are like elbows, everybody has a couple. best of luck, & take care!!!










i
 
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