White House, DOJ Gun Control Proposal Includes Universal Background Checks
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jmorris
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https://www.breitbart.com/politics/...roposal-includes-universal-background-checks/
And you are right. The ink won’t even dry on the signature before they point out the obvious fact that they won’t know if people are following the new law unless they know exactly what every person has in their possession.
After they get that, they will know where to come and what they are there to pick up, if it’s not there they arrest you on the spot because you broke the law.
If they ever find you in possession of something to didn’t declare in step 2, they arrest you because you broke the law.
The ray of hope is that it doesn’t say anything about private sales, yet.
And you are right. The ink won’t even dry on the signature before they point out the obvious fact that they won’t know if people are following the new law unless they know exactly what every person has in their possession.
After they get that, they will know where to come and what they are there to pick up, if it’s not there they arrest you on the spot because you broke the law.
If they ever find you in possession of something to didn’t declare in step 2, they arrest you because you broke the law.
The ray of hope is that it doesn’t say anything about private sales, yet.
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The key phrase is "...advertised commercial sales...."
If I read that correctly, it would not cover individual-to-individual exchange in most any instance outside those two words: "advertised" and "commercial"
What say the legal beagles ?
If I read that correctly, it would not cover individual-to-individual exchange in most any instance outside those two words: "advertised" and "commercial"
What say the legal beagles ?
BSA1
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“Commercial” sales of firearms must be done through a FFL dealer/business so a background check is done when the dealer calls the FBI instant check on the buyer.
So it comes down to what the definition of “commercial” is in govspeak. A business is required to have a FFL.
Then we are going to add somebody called a Licensed Transfer Agent. Is this a FFL that has been neutered?
So I see no change here. I have no idea what “advertised” means. As always the devil is in the details.
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The legal guys are not chiming in without the text of a bill.
This is a lot better than it could have been as it seems to forego any attempt at a registry by allowing sellers to record their own bill of sale and by exempting private sales.
Let's face it, something had to happen or the 2A guys would probably lose the Senate and maybe the White House.
There's also probably a provision to give money to the states to enact RFLs.
This is a lot better than it could have been as it seems to forego any attempt at a registry by allowing sellers to record their own bill of sale and by exempting private sales.
Let's face it, something had to happen or the 2A guys would probably lose the Senate and maybe the White House.
There's also probably a provision to give money to the states to enact RFLs.
theotherwaldo
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. I read the one page proposal (above). The only truly new thing in this appears to be the creation of a new
position - the Licensed Transfer Agent.
It doesn't even require all states and branches of the military to make reports to NICS.
Big deal.
FlSwampRat
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Not sure of the laws governing regular gun shops but our corporate lawyers have read all the current laws and for us to transfer a firearm we have to actually take it into our inventory (bound book and electronic gun log) and the output it to the receiving person. This is why we stayed away from facilitating private sales because there could be liabilities like, for example, a semi auto weapon that has been converted to full auto or some such thing where that gun is coming out of our legal inventory. Perhaps the transfer agents won't have to keep logs, just have identifiers to where they can log into the governing agency's checking system, whether NICS or, in our case, FDLE.
AlexanderA
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At this stage, the proposal is very nebulous. It appears to be an updated Manchin-Toomey. It's a trial balloon, but it's not going anywhere unless Trump indicates that he will sign on, and he has not given any indication that he will do so.
The innovation here seems to be the renaming of certain private sales as "unlicensed commercial sales." The key thing would be the solicitation of the sale by advertising, either by listing the item on the Internet or setting up a table at a gun show. Sales and transfers among friends and family would be exempted.
These "unlicensed commercial sellers" would have to run NICS checks on their buyers either through FFL's, or through a new category of "licensed transfer agents." Transfer agents would be like FFL dealers, but would not have inventory (or a brick and mortar store) and would just handle transfers for a fee. Could this herald the return of the old-fashioned "kitchen table dealer"? Maybe people could get FFL's without having premises open to the public or satisfying zoning requirements?
Established FFL dealers are just going to hate this aspect of the proposal.
What seems to be missing is a carve-out for existing voluntary check systems, such as the State Police check point at gun shows that we have here in Virginia. Other states should be encouraged to adopt such a system, as an alternative to the transfer agents..
The innovation here seems to be the renaming of certain private sales as "unlicensed commercial sales." The key thing would be the solicitation of the sale by advertising, either by listing the item on the Internet or setting up a table at a gun show. Sales and transfers among friends and family would be exempted.
These "unlicensed commercial sellers" would have to run NICS checks on their buyers either through FFL's, or through a new category of "licensed transfer agents." Transfer agents would be like FFL dealers, but would not have inventory (or a brick and mortar store) and would just handle transfers for a fee. Could this herald the return of the old-fashioned "kitchen table dealer"? Maybe people could get FFL's without having premises open to the public or satisfying zoning requirements?
Established FFL dealers are just going to hate this aspect of the proposal.
What seems to be missing is a carve-out for existing voluntary check systems, such as the State Police check point at gun shows that we have here in Virginia. Other states should be encouraged to adopt such a system, as an alternative to the transfer agents..
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jmorris
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I would be all for private access to NICS, I think we should already have access to that.
Not like the only time we come in contact with someone nefarious is when we sell a firearm...
He does know he needs us in about a year and we have long memories but he also has the benefit of Liberals actually stating their end goal like Beto. I understood he was no true friend of gun owners before he was elected, just hoping he doesn’t “throw us a bone” on this one to keep enough loyal.
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old lady new shooter
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IANAL, but I think it means posting online or setting up a table at a gun show.
AlexanderA
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Would "transfer agents" be able to handle sales across state lines, both for long guns and handguns?
That would be my interpretation as well.
If so, that neatly steps around the most onerously-stupid aspects of the Washington State's I-594 mess.
`Wanna make a bet that this limited-aspect of the proposed UBC is really just political trading material ?
old lady new shooter
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Nothing in the proposal indicates any loosening of current requirements pertaining to interstate sales.
AlexanderA
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This new "FFL lite" ("licensed transfer agent") would presumably be able to do interstate transfers, and would be easier to get than a regular FFL. I can see a mushrooming of "kitchen table dealers."
newfalguy101
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Maybe I am missing something...
Near as I can tell, anybody making commercial sales.....either has an FFL or is dealing without a license, which is illegal..
Sooo this will what " force" the guys who are illegally dealing without a license to follow a background check rule???
What could possibly go wrong
Near as I can tell, anybody making commercial sales.....either has an FFL or is dealing without a license, which is illegal..
Sooo this will what " force" the guys who are illegally dealing without a license to follow a background check rule???
What could possibly go wrong
CapnMac
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The third assertion is patently unsupportable.
"Commercial sales" must be conducted by a federally licensed dealer.
"Commercial sales" without record keeping is a violation of Federal law, and the FFL.
Unless that third assertion is that there are criminals engaged in the commercial sale of firearms. Except that is also patently illegal.
I presume "advertised sales" refers to Armslist, GB, et al. Unless we are to make the rather large logical leap that a billboard stating "Gun Show" constitutes "advertising."
newfalguy101
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Well...Capn'....a billboard advertising a gunshow IS advertising..
AlexanderA
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Yes, both of you are missing something. This would create an entirely new definition of "commercial sales," nothing like the current "engaged in the business." By "unlicensed commercial sales" they mean private sales with the added factor of public advertising (including online listings and tables at gun shows). What they are trying to do with this proposal is close the "gun show" and "Internet" "loopholes" while leaving transfers among families, friends, and acquaintances alone.
CapnMac
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Maybe, until we see the text, all we get are journo-produced copy at less than fifth-grade writing level.
Sorry, I'm feeling grumpy.
Sorry, I'm feeling grumpy.
old lady new shooter
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No. Right now in many states a private person can list a gun for sale on craigslist and sell it to another private person who is a resident of the same state, without going through an FFL.
I wonder if the buyer can also be the License Transfer Agent? If someone purchases a number of guns every year could they become a transfer agent and effectively act like a modern day Curio and Relics FFL with a couple extra steps.
I had my C&R license for a number of years and it was a fairly painless process.
Closing the “gun show loophole” makes sense and it’ll be interesting to see the reaction to this. I guess I’d rather have the Republicans initiate any legislation and try to minimize the impact rather than anything the Democrats would propose.
If the law outlaws armslist type transactions by someone who sells 1 or 2 guns per year that’d be a mistake and I’m not sure how I’d feel about it then.
I had my C&R license for a number of years and it was a fairly painless process.
Closing the “gun show loophole” makes sense and it’ll be interesting to see the reaction to this. I guess I’d rather have the Republicans initiate any legislation and try to minimize the impact rather than anything the Democrats would propose.
If the law outlaws armslist type transactions by someone who sells 1 or 2 guns per year that’d be a mistake and I’m not sure how I’d feel about it then.
danez71
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badkarmamib
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While I agree with you, I can also hear voices in the background calling the proposers "turncoats". Actually, I can't hear them, I am reading them in my spam emails from the usual activism groups. But, as worded, I am not seeing the bad, I am seeing another way to have confidence that I am not selling to a prohibited person, but...
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