Who does revolver "combat" training?

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Well being willing to travel makes a difference. Josh Lentz has classes I know. Miculek used to as well but I don't know about now. I'm sure there are more. I'd look into those rather than combat if I were you.
 
The gunsite revolver class is offered ONCE in 2019, and that's during the first week of school. No way my principal is going to let me take an "extended summer."

By contrast, the autoloader pistol class is offered thirteen times in 2019.

That is a very clear indicator of the effects of the law of supply and demand.
 
The gunsite revolver class is offered ONCE in 2019, and that's during the first week of school. No way my principal is going to let me take an "extended summer."

By contrast, the autoloader pistol class is offered thirteen times in 2019.

That is a very clear indicator of the effects of the law of supply and demand.

Not necessarily. The standard 250 class includes revolvers. So what's remarkable is that there is sufficient demand for an exclusive revolver class even once this year. I can't say that you'll get the revolver-guru you're seeking in a standard 250 class, but it's clear that revolvers are included. They even mention how many speedloaders you'll need to bring: 6.

A good way to proceed would be to call Gunsite and ask them who the instructors are for the revolver course. Then ask what other dates those instructors are teaching a 250 class. Make it clear that you're seeking expert revolver instruction, and I think you'll get the answers you need. If you do get the names of instructors suitable to teach a revolver course, see if you can get their email address or search it out. Then contact them and find out when and where else they might be teaching. Quite a few of the Gunsite instructors are part-time or itinerate and they may be teaching at other schools or doing their own classes in other locations. If they're any good, it's doubtful they only teach one class a year. If you do find out more, post back here.
 
Not necessarily. The standard 250 class includes revolvers. So what's remarkable is that there is sufficient demand for an exclusive revolver class even once this year.

That would be another, equally valid, way of saying the same thing I just said. If there are 13 autoloader classes and 1 revolver class, then it's obvious that the demand for autoloader classes far outstrips that of revolver classes. However, I agree that it is remarkable that there are still enough revolver people to create the demand for at least one class per year.

I can't say that you'll get the revolver-guru you're seeking in a standard 250 class, but it's clear that revolvers are included. They even mention how many speedloaders you'll need to bring: 6.

SIX!? I go through that many speedloaders in a single string in USPSA. I typically carry 18 speedloaders into match, and I've got another 50 rounds nearby to reload speedloaders between strings, if necessary. (It is almost never necessary to do so, but there are times where I just say "screw it" stop shooting, and take the penalties for paper/steel misses.

To bring this back to training at Gunsight, I'm not sure the benefit of paying $1700 for instruction, plus lodging and food costs, plus airfare, only to have the same experience I get every week at my local range--of struggling to keep up with 50 Glocks.

A good way to proceed would be to call Gunsite and ask them who the instructors are for the revolver course. Then ask what other dates those instructors are teaching a 250 class. Make it clear that you're seeking expert revolver instruction, and I think you'll get the answers you need.

That's a good idea, and it's probably worth my time.
 
I've pretty much hit a plateau in USPSA with my revolver, so I'm really looking for additional training to improve or add skill sets.
Not to try and discourage you, but I don’t know that the typical self-defense centered class is going to help you all that much if your goal is to improve at USPSA.

While shooting and reloading quickly and accurately are beneficial to both sport and defense, there are a number of areas that would help you improve at USPSA that won’t be covered in a defense class. (Breaking down a stage, planning when/where to reload/etc). Reloading techniques are often taught differently as well.

If improving at USPSA is your end goal, you would be better off asking over on the Brian Enos forum, where you could get more competition-specific responses.
 
I would just go to the autoloader course. It will basically teach you the same thing. You need to learn to reload quickly with the revolver

The only thing I can think of that they might not teach you is reloading under duress. They would probably show you that also.

Draw, fire move would be the same for both guns.
 
I would just go to the autoloader course. It will basically teach you the same thing. You need to learn to reload quickly with the revolver

The only thing I can think of that they might not teach you is reloading under duress. They would probably show you that also.

Draw, fire move would be the same for both guns.
I imagine that the way you manage ammo is the biggest difference between self defense and shooting games. In self defense situations you are willing to waste ammo in order to always have a full or nearly full mag in the gun. In shooting games isn't it more common to shoot all the ammo and then reload rapidly. In other words reloading speed is important in shooting games, but not because someone is likely to be shooting at you like in self defense. In SD you don't expect to have to shoot all your ammo, but you want to be full at all times. In games you do expect to shoot everything and then refill. As always, correct me if I'm wrong.
 
Ive not been to any competition classes. I have shot steel with competition guys (I'm not competitive at all with those guys) as well as taken defensive classes. About 50% of it would be wasted in a competition.
Your going to waste time scanning the area after each shot in a match, running off the course to find cover rather than cardboard concealment. Most sd classes talk about when to legally shoot for a while. Most also work on one handed shooting for a bit. Malfunction drills, Also some talk about shot placement (not of the utmost importance on a steel or cardboard torso) for a while too. Over penetration and lining your target up with a solid bullet stop.....All of that (which can add up to a day of a 2 day course) is not going to benefit someone trying to break a plateau in their competition performance.
 
I never understand why folks can't find quality training and are always stuck with and denouncing militaristic, commandos as the mode for training. Research is your friend.

Quality - no nonsense folks who teach SD revolver (if you want competition training, that's different but I know the SD world):

http://rangemaster.com/training/defensive-revolver-offsite/
http://www.hardwiredtacticalshooting.com/classes - they do a revolver centered event periodically
https://tacticalprofessor.wordpress.com/ - Claude Werner - excellent snubby classes. He also has quite a few practice drills.

Revolver classes are rarer than semis as we all know. That's the market. There are geographical limitations.
 
I never understand why folks can't find quality training and are always stuck with and denouncing militaristic, commandos as the mode for training.
I think it's because they don't want to put the money and time into getting training but have a nagging feeling that they should, so they have to manufacture reasons that they can't.
 
At one of our local ranges, that unfortunately recently closed, revolver classes were a regular feature. Both the basics and for self defense. Private classes were also offered including for PPC which remains popular here. The classes were usually well attended and weekly.

Anyone who is a serious handgunner realizes the need, and should have the desire, to become knowledgeable and have some skill with revolvers. This means both single action and double action revolvers. So it's useful to go to at least local classes at some point. It's part of building and developing skills.
 
At one of our local ranges, that unfortunately recently closed, revolver classes were a regular feature. Both the basics and for self defense. Private classes were also offered including for PPC which remains popular here. The classes were usually well attended and weekly.

Anyone who is a serious handgunner realizes the need, and should have the desire, to become knowledgeable and have some skill with revolvers. This means both single action and double action revolvers. So it's useful to go to at least local classes at some point. It's part of building and developing skills.
Why is there a need and should there be a desire for everyone interested in shooting to become knowledgeable and have some skill with revolvers? Do you assume we will all find ourselves in a shootout with only a stray revolver lying nearby to get us out of the jam? I will take my chances with that possibility. As far as I am concerned revolvers are the most unwieldy and annoying of firearms. I will let Jerry M. have my share and good riddance. There, now my generalization is even more absurd than yours was.
 
Well, being an aberrant individual - I shot two guns at yesterday's IDPA match. One was a 1911 and one was a revolver. I will take a class using both next week.

I guess I suffer from bi-hoplophilia. I'll propose it for the next DSM revision.
 
I imagine that the way you manage ammo is the biggest difference between self defense and shooting games. In self defense situations you are willing to waste ammo in order to always have a full or nearly full mag in the gun. In shooting games isn't it more common to shoot all the ammo and then reload rapidly. In other words reloading speed is important in shooting games, but not because someone is likely to be shooting at you like in self defense. In SD you don't expect to have to shoot all your ammo, but you want to be full at all times. In games you do expect to shoot everything and then refill. As always, correct me if I'm wrong.

I think you're pretty much spot on here. I often dump 1-2 live rounds on the ground, so that I can go into the next portion of a string, especially if there are moving targets or spinners, with all 6 rounds. Fast reloads are critical, again, especially with moving targets, but I can imagine that, in a SD scenario, should a reload become necessary (and, with a revolver, there is about a 3x greater chance that it will be necessary as compared to an autoloader), that reload speed would be just as critical. In fact, one of my biggest problems is I have to put 100% of my focus and attention on reloading my revolver. My head is completely down, and the only thing I can see is the back of my cylinder. Ina USPSA game, this isn't a big deal. can imagine that, in a SD scenario, this could be really bad.
 
Well, being an aberrant individual - I shot two guns at yesterday's IDPA match. One was a 1911 and one was a revolver. I will take a class using both next week.

I guess I suffer from bi-hoplophilia. I'll propose it for the next DSM revision.
Nah, nothing aberrant about that. You like ‘em both, you like ‘em. Fair enough. I just don’t see saying everyone should.
 
I would just go to the autoloader course. It will basically teach you the same thing. You need to learn to reload quickly with the revolver

The only thing I can think of that they might not teach you is reloading under duress. They would probably show you that also.

Draw, fire move would be the same for both guns.
You might be right, and if that's the case, then this is a moot discussion. I can draw, aim, shoot, and move with any gun. I understand the difference between cover and concealment and how to use them.
 
I think it's because they don't want to put the money and time into getting training but have a nagging feeling that they should, so they have to manufacture reasons that they can't.
From what I've seen thus far, it's really not that much money.
 
So it's useful to go to at least local classes at some point.
There are no local classes in my area, especially for revolver. Everything in my areas seem to be, as one poster stated earlier, "militaristic commando" type training. I did that at Ft. Jackson in '94. Thankfully, my "warfighting" days are behind me. (And even more thankfully, I never had to fight a war.)
 
I think you're pretty much spot on here. I often dump 1-2 live rounds on the ground, so that I can go into the next portion of a string, especially if there are moving targets or spinners, with all 6 rounds. Fast reloads are critical, again, especially with moving targets, but I can imagine that, in a SD scenario, should a reload become necessary (and, with a revolver, there is about a 3x greater chance that it will be necessary as compared to an autoloader), that reload speed would be just as critical. In fact, one of my biggest problems is I have to put 100% of my focus and attention on reloading my revolver. My head is completely down, and the only thing I can see is the back of my cylinder. Ina USPSA game, this isn't a big deal. can imagine that, in a SD scenario, this could be really bad.
Yeah, that was my point. In SD training, they teach you to align the mag with your index finger while feeling for the top round and tilt it into the mag well. That is so you don’t mess up, but also so in a pinch you could do it without looking. The ideal situation is to have the rising full mag and falling discarded one pass each other in the air. You should be lifting the fresh one right past the falling discarded one. We had one guy who was very, very fast at all the manipulations. He didn’t lose a single point on any of the loading, reloading, or clearing malfunctions drills due to speed.
 
Why is there a need and should there be a desire for everyone interested in shooting to become knowledgeable and have some skill with revolvers? Do you assume we will all find ourselves in a shootout with only a stray revolver lying nearby to get us out of the jam? I will take my chances with that possibility.

I'll take a stab at this one. I equate this to my students' similar questions (and, honestly, my own thoughts) as to "Why do I have to lear this?" A well rounded person, what was once referred to as a "Renaissance Man" was knowledgeable in all topics: math and science, history, languages, the arts, etc., and could at least discuss topics in each. He was likely an expert in only one or two areas.

I see the same benefit for the armed citizen. The consummate shooting enthusiast should be able to competently (perhaps not expertly) use the broad range of the most popular firearms designs. He may be an expert in only one type, but he can effectively utilize the others. And take note that I used the term "armed citizen" as opposed to "citizen soldier" (or "tacticool citizen). I don't see a need for the well rounded shooter to know how use full auto fire as a suppressive fire tactic, or to be able to clear buildings bock by block.
 
I'll take a stab at this one. I equate this to my students' similar questions (and, honestly, my own thoughts) as to "Why do I have to lear this?" A well rounded person, what was once referred to as a "Renaissance Man" was knowledgeable in all topics: math and science, history, languages, the arts, etc., and could at least discuss topics in each. He was likely an expert in only one or two areas.

I see the same benefit for the armed citizen. The consummate shooting enthusiast should be able to competently (perhaps not expertly) use the broad range of the most popular firearms designs. He may be an expert in only one type, but he can effectively utilize the others. And take note that I used the term "armed citizen" as opposed to "citizen soldier" (or "tacticool citizen). I don't see a need for the well rounded shooter to know how use full auto fire as a suppressive fire tactic, or to be able to clear buildings bock by block.
I feel like you are confusing desirable with necesssary. Of course it is desirable, but tipoc was suggesting an importance to the exercise that to me bordered on necessity. BITD learning Latin and Greek was cute, but it didn’t truly accomplish anything. It just filled up the days of folks who were too wealthy to have anything else they had to do. Kind of like keeping them out of trouble while the folks who had to work for a living took care of business and politics.
 
I don't see a need for the well rounded shooter to know how use full auto fire as a suppressive fire tactic, or to be able to clear buildings bock by block.
I disagree on that one. The point of the 2A is to have the citizens own and train with the same weapons and tactics as the military.
 
I think you're pretty much spot on here. I often dump 1-2 live rounds on the ground, so that I can go into the next portion of a string, especially if there are moving targets or spinners, with all 6 rounds. Fast reloads are critical, again, especially with moving targets, but I can imagine that, in a SD scenario, should a reload become necessary (and, with a revolver, there is about a 3x greater chance that it will be necessary as compared to an autoloader), that reload speed would be just as critical. In fact, one of my biggest problems is I have to put 100% of my focus and attention on reloading my revolver. My head is completely down, and the only thing I can see is the back of my cylinder. Ina USPSA game, this isn't a big deal. can imagine that, in a SD scenario, this could be really bad.

What method do you use to reload? Do you use the strong hand or weak hand on the ejector rod? With what hand do you hold the gun when using a speedloader? Is the gun vertical or at a 45 degree angle when you're charging it with the speedloader?


In this video, at least three different methods are discussed and the choice of techniques for each step is explained with some alternatives. To your point, he also mentions how some techniques cause you to lose your "danger scan." Personally, I use the weak hand on the ejector rod just like he demonstrates (forefinger and thumb straddling the barrel). But I use the weak hand to reload without changing my grip on the gun. His argument against doing this is that it uses a non-dextrous hand to perform an operation that requires dexterity. Watching Jerry Miculek set a world record for revolver reload, he appears to use the "FBI" method described in the video with a thumb on the ejector rod. But he's also using moonclips and short 9x19mm cases. I haven't studied Miculek's method in any detail to see how he might deal with the issue of the hot forcing cone on the finger. I am sure there is more than one solution. Ayoob's method is clearly focused on combat, and you can bet than Miculek has figured out what saves him even a hundreth of a second.

More methods explained:

 
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