Why does printing matter?

[Space Ghost]

Concealing the fact that you are walking around with a deadly weapon strapped to your waste can be easily done. Get a good gun belt. Get a good holster. Wear a properly sized cover garment. DON'T keep checking on the gun by touching it all the time.

I'm a fat old grey bearded cripple with a service dog, so that adds to my allure of "helplessness" that probably makes most people overlook me in a crowd.

You have to choose your cover garments wisely. If I wear a button up shirt, or a Pink Floyd t-shirt, I can probably go un-noticed. Especially since most people have their faces in their phones these days.

However... The reason I'm a cripple is because of my military service. If I walk around looking like the typical "disgruntled vet" in my t-shirt that says "the fastest way to a man's heart is 2,750 feet per second" on it, and has a picture of an M4 on it, and my U.S. Army Retired hat... it's not gonna matter if I'm printing or not...

 

[whughett]

Space Ghost. Can’t be that old if you wear a Pink Floyd T shirt.
Just a little levity in an otherwise serious discussion.

 

[bassjam]

I don't think printing is generally a big deal. I think some people really overthink things and give criminals more tactical credit than they deserve. The fact is very few people will notice an odd shape printing under your shirt. The ones that do probably won't give it a second thought as to what it is. The ones that notice the outline looks similar to a handgun....are most likely just other CCW carriers obsessed with checking out other dudes for some odd reason.

If I'm carrying a j-frame in my pocket it certainly looks like a bulge of something, but I don't give it a second thought. If I'm carrying a pistol on my belt with an extended mag sometimes the butt will show a tell through my t-shirt, again I don't give it a second thought. Occasionally when I'm out shopping or with the kids the way I'll move will pull my shirt high and it'll ride over the top of the gun and get stuck. Again, doesn't really bother me and when I have a chance I'll casually pull my shirt back down.

I think the biggest exception is only if you're carrying somewhere you're not supposed to be carrying, such as at work where they aren't gun friendly. When the same people see you day after day after day they might start to wonder why you always have that odd point sticking out of your love handles.

 

[Kleanbore]

I don't think printing is generally a big deal.

You are probably right--generally.

But had a couple of people been more careful about it, one facility I know of would not have been posted--and that's not conjecture.

I think some people really overthink things and give criminals more tactical credit than they deserve. The fact is very few people will notice an odd shape printing under your shirt. The ones that do probably won't give it a second thought as to what it is. The ones that notice the outline looks similar to a handgun....are most likely just other CCW carriers obsessed with checking out other dudes for some odd reason.

What has led you to believe such things?

If I'm carrying a j-frame in my pocket it certainly looks like a bulge of something, but I don't give it a second thought. I

Why would you? It is not the carrier who might suspect the presence of a firearm.

 

[bassjam]

What has led you to believe such things?

I've never seen anything to the contrary. Why do you not believe such things? Do you have any evidence? Any proof? Or just hearsay?
What I have heard discussed is that the more experience criminals will pay attention to how someone acts or carries themselves. If you stare down at the ground and avoid eye contact, that makes you more of a target for a mugging than someone who walks confidently and isn't afraid to looks someone in the eye. But I've even heard a thing about criminals trying to spot a printed firearm. Because in reality it'd just be a waste of their time as it's not reliable enough.

 

[wagonburner]

I doubt he'll do anything but disarm you, cuff you and put in the back seat...

.

In my case it was a VHS recorder taken off me, and I got myself some “stick time” from the officers before I was placed in the back of the police car. Those were the days before tazers.

On reflection I realized compliance and less ad hominem would have worked a lot better.

 

[Kleanbore]

I've never seen anything to the contrary.

You may never have noticed people detecting concealed carry, but you cannot say that you have never seen it.

It makes no sense to at all say that those whom you have never noticed were most "likely just other CCW carriers obsessed with checking out other dudes for some odd reason".

Why do you not believe such things?

Believe what things?

Do you have any evidence? Any proof?

I have proof that people carrying concealed have been detected. I have been one of them. On e occasion caused quite a stir among employees of a store, though perfectly legal.

What I have heard discussed is that the more experience criminals will pay attention to how someone acts or carries themselves.

There is truth to that, and a whole lot of literature about it.

But I've even heard a thing about criminals trying to spot a printed firearm.

Alrighty then.

 

[whughett]

#Kleanbore:
Did I miss an exchange somewhere relative to “ those persons breaking into unoccupied dwellings aren’t thieves.”
The jack who my wife and found in our home when we returned three years ago got two years in the ACI and a court issued restraining order after his release.

 

[bassjam]

You may never have noticed people detecting concealed carry, but you cannot say that you have never seen it.

It makes no sense to at all say that those whom you have never noticed were most "likely just other CCW carriers obsessed with checking out other dudes for some odd reason".

Believe what things?

I have proof that people carrying concealed have been detected. I have been one of them. On e occasion caused quite a stir among employees of a store, though perfectly legal.

There is truth to that, and a whole lot of literature about it.

Alrighty then.

So you can provide no proof, other than that you like to check out other men?

 

[Kleanbore]

Did I miss an exchange somewhere relative to “ those persons breaking into unoccupied dwellings aren’t thieves.”

I don't know. Did you?

I was distinguishing, between burglary and theft, which are two distinctly different crimes, one much more severe than the other.

They can differ greatly in terms of what a citizen may lawfully do to prevent them, but preventing unlawful entry into an unoccupied dwelling would not justify the threat of deadly force in most jurisdictions.

A burglar may enter a structure for the purpose of committing theft. Whether he might be charged with both crimes, I do not know.

The jack who my wife and found in our home when we returned three years ago got two years in the ACI and a court issued restraining order after his release.

That sounds like an extremely light sentence, unless there were mitigating circumstances.

 

[Kleanbore]

So you can provide no proof, other than that you like to check out other men?

NO!

Read it again!

 

[whughett]

I don't know. Did you?

I was distinguishing, between burglary and theft, which are two distinctly different crimes, one much more severe than the other.

They can differ greatly in terms of what a citizen may lawfully do to prevent them, but preventing unlawful entry into an unoccupied dwelling would not justify the threat of deadly force in most jurisdictions.

A burglar may enter a structure for the purpose of committing theft. Whether he might be charged with both crimes, I do not know.

That sounds like an extremely light sentence, unless there were mitigating circumstances.

Right. Not too good reading between the lines. No distinction made in that paragraph. It’s just legalize to the average citizen anyway.

Ya, I agree on the sentence. Kicked the door in, tossed the bed room and was caught in the act. Non violent dumb dude who actually tried to talk his way out of it. Couldn’t make bail, spent a year waiting for a court date pleaded guilty sentenced to two years with credit for time served.
Dumb because he borrowed a mini van and left it running in my drive way, we blocked it in when we arrived home. I heard later he was deported to Portugal.

 

[Kleanbore]

Dumb because he borrowed a mini van and left it running in my drive way, we blocked it in when we arrived home. I heard later he was deported to Portugal.

That's a great story!

I should mention that the discussion of what to do upon returning home and finding something not right has come up many times, and it is covered in somme of the recommended books.

Drive away immediately and call 911!

We had a murder here when a resident came home to find two burglars inside. One of them was her son's friend.

Good thing your doofus was non-violent.

 

[whughett]

That's a great story!

I should mention that the discussion of what to do upon returning home and finding something not right has come up many times, and it is covered in somme of the recommended books.

Drive away immediately and call 911!

We had a murder here when a resident came home to find two burglars inside. One of them was her son's friend.

Good thing your doofus was non-violent.

I’ve told my self that many times.

 

[The Exile]

There are people who are "busybodies", who like nothing more than to notice such things and make your life miserable. There are people who may target you physically, verbally, politically, etc.

Yes yes I've said hello to my aunts at thanksgiving before.

 

[BCC1]

I agree with the comment that not printing ‘is the polite thing to do’. In Florida, there are folks who would be upset knowing someone nearby was carrying a gun. While I don’t share their perspective, I see no reason to cause them concern. I do my best not to print.

I dress around the gun I want to carry.

 

[Styx]

I agree with the comment that not printing ‘is the polite thing to do’. In Florida, there are folks who would be upset knowing someone nearby was carrying a gun. While I don’t share their perspective, I see no reason to cause them concern. I do my best not to print.

Some people see those who are uncomfortable around firearms for whatever reason as "the enemy", so they could not care any less about being polite. Other believe that they're going to beat others into submission by trying to force them to be around firearms. Both groups believe having the right to do something means it's okay to be inconsiderate, inappropriate, rude, etc by exercising the right whenever and wherever ever they personally feel like it, and to hell with everyone else.

The last group are the ones who believe no one will ever notice the gun shaped outline protruding from the inside of a shirt. Even if someone does notice, they'll assume Apple came out with a new handgun shaped iPhone, and will go on about their day...

 

[jimbo555]

It really depends on which state you live in and the law in that state. In Georgia if you have a weapons license it's legal to carry concealed or openly. You get used to seeing open carry when it's commonplace. Not rude in my book, a choice.

 

[Trashyshoots]

Born and raised in arizona so its a non issue, printing, not printing, or open carrying. However, in other states, can you get in legal trouble for printing? Would they try to argue its brandishing?

Even in az where its a no-hecks-given-conceal-it-if-you-got-it state, you still see dudes open carrying a lot. I always assume for every 1 gun you see theres 100 you didnt.

 

[Space Ghost]

Some people see those who are uncomfortable around firearms for whatever reason as "the enemy", so they could not care any less about being polite.

I see people who are "uncomfortable around firearms for whatever reason", as people who can't deal with reality. While I could not care less about them, I do make an effort to be polite. When I say I try to be polite, I mean I use good manners, and I behave in such a way that they shouldn't feel the need to fear me. (based on my behavior) If they continue to fear me (based on the fact that they think they saw a bulge in my clothing) that's on them. That means they're judging me, same as they would were I a person of color, or a gay guy holding hands with my boyfriend. Shouldn't matter that I have a firearm, as long as that firearm is resting quietly in it's holster.

Other believe that they're going to beat others into submission by trying to force them to be around firearms. Both groups believe having the right to do something means it's okay to be inconsiderate, inappropriate, rude, etc by exercising the right whenever and wherever ever they personally feel like it, and to hell with everyone else.

I'm pretty sure I'm not gonna change anybody's mind, and turn then into a gun enthusiast, However, I do have the right to carry, just as they have the right to not. Here, we are both right, so it wouldn't really be fair (or legal) to expect me to worry if someone else likes me exercising my legal right. There's nothing inconsiderate, inappropriate, or rude, about it. Someone expecting me to stifle my freedom based on their fear? That's pretty damn inconsiderate, inappropriate, and rude... Yes, I'm gonna be exercising that right whenever, and wherever I personally feel like it... and to hell with everyone else. Not trying to be mean on purpose here, just not gonna allow somebody else to say when I can, and can't carry (be a free man) based on their precious feelings. It's not like I'm screaming obscenities, or racial slurs in someones face then citing "free speech". By the way, in my home state, I can carry either open, or concealed. I almost always choose concealed, both to keep the tactical advantage, and to keep from attracting attention, upsetting others.

The last group are the ones who believe no one will ever notice the gun shaped outline protruding from the inside of a shirt. Even if someone does notice, they'll assume Apple came out with a new handgun shaped iPhone, and will go on about their day...

If you replace the "no one" with something like "most people" I'd be in this group too... I'm sure that other gun enthusiasts, may notice, if they're looking. Law enforcement would, especially if you're acting squirrelly. A particularly astute criminal may as he sizes up the crowd looking for an easy target...Most people though, probably would not notice a little bulge in a cover garment.

 

[Kleanbore]

I see people who are "uncomfortable around firearms for whatever reason", as people who can't deal with reality.

That may be a possible diagnosis for a few of them, but he reasons f r their discomfort is completely irrelevant to the issue.

Here, we are both right, so it wouldn't really be fair (or legal) to expect me to worry if someone else likes me exercising my legal right.

You might worry if you behavior leads to your loss of that legal right, either in private property that you might like to visit, a public place, or your jurisdiction.

That happens.

That's pretty damn inconsiderate, inappropriate, and rude...

Like beauty, rudeness is in the eye of the beholder.

Yes, I'm gonna be exercising that right whenever, and wherever I personally feel like it... and to hell with everyone else.

Ah, the very model of arrogance.

"Somebady else" permits carry, and "somebody else" can forbid it. You can help motivate them do do the latter.

 

[MechAg94]

I worry a little about printing, but I try not to obsess about it. A little printing is not likely to get noticed (for the most part). Sometimes a pistol that is only marginally smaller or has fewer edges will print a lot less. I have an HK VP9 and an HK P30. Both are nearly the same size, but the VP9 prints just a little more than the P30. Some of that is the different style holster I have for each.

I do notice some colors/textures of shirts make printing less obvious.

 

[Kleanbore]

A little printing is not likely to get noticed (for the most part).

Certainly true.

I do notice some colors/textures of shirts make printing less obvious.

Yes, and fit, too.

 

[Hangingrock]

We reside in a predominantly rural county and yes we have a Walmart along with that we have a recreation area that draws the spectrum of humanity. Open Carry is legal along with Concealed Carry. I've not personally witnessed anyone, except for one occurrence. A woman tourist from Ohio at Wendy's screamed "man with a gun". Individuals' were exiting the place in haste until someone with a command voice said " Open carry of a weapon is legal and allowed in NC" The stamped came to a halt post hast.

Open carry is not common or uncommon but occurs where as the local citizens don't fuss about it. As for myself I do not open carry but others do and I am not demeaning of them. As for shooting fatalities there are two that I can recall. There could be more but I can't remember.

Now if I was to go to one of the major population centers as an example the city of Greensboro, open carry, thus a response to open carry could or would be potentially problematic.

 

[bassjam]

NO!

Read it again!

Your "proof" wasn't a criminal. I want to hear proof that criminals worry about such things as trying to see someone's firearm printing. And then I want to see proof that if a criminal saw you printing, they'd then shoot you first as opposed to just leaving. Criminals like easy victims. They tend to avoid people that can fight back.