Why is my first shot always high?

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hometheaterman

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So as many of you know I have a Browning BAR 30-06 rifle. It's the older style BAR's from the late 80's and early 90's. Anyway, I've always had accuracy problems and to be frank it's always shot like **** to me. Anyway, I finally found after testing much factory ammo that Federal Fusions in 150 grain do decently and seem to shoot about 1.5"-2" groups. That's the only ammo I've found that shoots worth a crap and I've tried many brands and different varieties. Anyway, I got the urge to work up handloads and am seeing a problem that I also see with factory ammo. Anyway, I'm shooting 3 shot groups normally then letting the barrel cool. On this target I did shoot a 5 shot group then a 3 shot group. Anyway, after letting the barrel cool the first shot always seems to be 3-4" high. It's been this way with each load I've tested. It's also this way with factory ammo. Once you shoot that first round that's several inches high I found a load that will group well after that. Here is an example target. I shot a 3 shot group. The one right next to the bullseye was the first shot. The other two down with the rest. Then I let the gun cool and proceeded to shoot 5 shots this time. The first shot is the other high one. The other 4 went down there with the first two.
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So what the heck is causing this issue? I can get it to group decently except for that first shot after letting the gun cool down.

BTW I'm also positive that it's not a scope issue and I really don't think I'm pulling that much and every time I take the first shot. I think If I was pulling I'd do it at other times too and it wouldn't always be on the first shot of a group.
 
No, not of the day. I've probably shot 15 rounds through it today. After 3 shots the barrel starts getting pretty hot so I let it sit for 15-20 minutes to cool down. The first shot after I let it cool shoots high like that. It's always the first shot after letting it sit for 15-20 minutes that shoots high and that seems to be the only one.
 
there are a couple things that could be the culprit.

the first thing is you may not be reestablishing your Natural point of aim properly after not shooting for 15 minutes.

the second possibility is after 15 minutes of not firing, you aren't flinching as much as during the rest of the group. Flinches can be very consistent, shot to shot if you have one.

another issue relates to how the first round is loaded, and is more commonly seen on semi-auto pistols. on certain weapon designs, the first round, which wasn't chambered by the action in a normal action cycle can sit in the chamber differently than subsequent rounds, causing it to shoot to a different spot.
 
I have had that issue on a 308 autoloader before (or two). What I think is important is to figure out what is important to you. For me while hunting the most important thing was that first hand loaded shot off of a cold barrel. So when shooting to sight in, I loaded only one round in the mag, then hand racked it for each shot. I zeroed off of that group using that method. That way my first shot from a cold barrel was likely to be a hit. If I was trying to hit varmints with full mags I would have had to do something different, but that is not what I intended to do with the rifle. A second method would be to load 3 or 5 rounds and shoot a group to find the average POI. Then move this POI to center the group on the target such that all shots will be probable hits even though the first shot may be a little high on the animal.
 
Are you using the bolt release to load the first round? I have problems with mine if I use the bolt release but not if pulling the bolt all the way back hard. Also are you using a sling with the sling attached to the barrel you can pull it down enough to change your poi.
 
It seems to me that in addition to the valid point of the first round is manually chambered is also the chance that heat is affecting the POI. My experience has been that a hot barrel causes POI "walk" or stringing but what if this man's rifle barrel was touching a spot on the stock kind of hard and then heat lessened this pressure as the barrel moved due to heat form the shots? I have a Remington 30-06 bolt that gives me 2-3 shots as sighted in and then starts stringing the POI. I have to wait for the barrel temp drops to ambient temp or within ten percent before the rifle returns to normal POA.
 
I've tried cycling it anyway I can think of. I've let it slam close, ease forward, etc. This model doesn't have a bolt release. You have to pull the bolt back with a loaded magazine, or push the magazine in with your fingers through the action if unloaded, or drop the magazine. I don't have a sling or anything touching the barrel, and I even sanded the forearm where it was touching the barrel. The thought of selling this thing keeps popping my head as every time I shoot it I remember how much I dislike it. I even have two guys I hunt with that want to buy it even knowing the issues. However, for some reason I've not been able to bring myself to part with it. It just looks so nice and it does shoot well enough to hit deer at 100 yards. It's just annoying when target shooting.

I think I may try to do some more testing with how I release the bolt.
 
It is probably just heat, or the lack there-of.

You might also want to see is the bullet tip on the first (manually loaded) round is getting smacked or damaged differently than the other rounds which are being self loaded.

It may need a slight feed ramp tweak.

OOPPS almost forgot....

You might also want to try only loading one or two rounds in the magazine and see what that changes. It could be something on that end as well.

Alex
 
If you like the gun that much, there are severals things you can do.
Heat is definitely the issue. As the gun is fired, the barrel expands and it's changing the harmonics due to forces (tension) that is impinging on the barrel. In your case, I suspect the gas piston/tubes and their attachment points and hardware. As the barrel heats, the barrel also grows in length. (Thousandths of an inch, but it does expand....) This is pulling against the lower attachment on the bottom of the barrel, and causing it to "pull" the barrel "downard".

1. Check the torque on the barrel attachment fittings. Loosen however the barrel is attached. Lightly retorque the fittings after locktighting them (thread locker).

2. Inspect the forend attachment. Likewise, don't over tighten the attachment hardware.

3. Avoid "pulling" the firearm down into the rest your'e using when firing.

If you are not comfortable with performing the first two, take the gun (or send) it to a reputable gunsmith familiar with the BAR action/firearm.

Or, better yet, contact Browning directly and send it to them.

In my neck of the woods, the BAR has a better reputation for accuracy than the other similar (Remington 742, ect). Your's just needs a little "tuning" to get it to shoot consistently.
Consider how much some of the Remington M700's need extensive "operations" to get them to "shoot straight"......

Lastly, keep a diary on the gun. Sight in so the first shot is ~2.5" high at 100yds. It's the first shot that really counts anyhow....
 
I had a problem similar to yours except with a bolt action rifle. I spent a young fortune experimenting with different brands of ammo, bullet weights etc. I even tried changing the bedding of the action and barrel. Nothing that I did made a significant difference. I finally gave up and put a new barrel on the action. The problem went away and the rifle shoots fine now.
I would suggest taking the rifle to a gunsmith that knows semiauto firearms.
I know precious little about BAR's but it sounds like the problem is barrel/ bedding related.
 
One thing I have noticed is that the forearm has always been loose at the receiver end. I mean not falling off, but at the receiver end it has maybe half an inch of play or so. It only has the sling stud to hold it tight and I've tightened it until it was as tight as I could get it. actually, I broke it off the first time. It has been like this since I got it. I thought maybe I crushed the wood a little on the forearm so I ordered another forearm off of gunbroker and this one is the same way. It's just not tight. Now I heard on another forum that they should be tight and them being loose can cause accuracy issues. Is this true? On you guys BAR's are they tight? I've read that this is a common problem. Are there any fixes to it?
 
My dad has a BAR in 30.06 and the forearm is tight. The gun shoots extremely accurate and with a broad range of ammunition as well. I don't know what is causing your problem, but I wish you luck in figuring it out. If you do ever figure it out, please post your solution here.:)
 
Heating and cooling of barrels have an odd effect on them.
In cannons a tube will actually move very slightly based on the uneven heating and cooling from the warmth of sunlight. Lube also has a great effect on that first round. As stated the way that first round is loaded could have an effect.
It would seem from your post that everything goes back to your zero after the first round, is this correct?
 
Well, it groups with some ammo after the first round. Not good groups, but 2" or under. However, once you let the barrel cool after a few shots it throws the first shot again after it cools. Even though it has a dirty barrel this time. So it's not the clean barrel making it throw the shot.
 
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