Why is my first shot always high

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Kwaynem

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I know this has been covered but eyes got tired reading and the replies were cut off every time I go out the first shot is always about an inch higher then the rest are about a 5/8 group now before someone says cold barrel is always high I shoot once get in the truck with a/c on high with the rifle wait 15 minutes then shoot and it’s always the same factory ammo don’t do it
 
Residue in the barrel from the last cleaning. Unless you use acetone to clean the barrel your never getting all the residue out and then some believe the carbon residue from shot 1 will create a lube of sorts that helps settle your groups in.
 
Residue in the barrel from the last cleaning

Actually this is backwards. It is a LACK of residue in the barrel because of cleaning. A perfectly clean barrel will always shoot to a slightly different point of impact than the other shots. The 1st shot is the only one that will be from a clean barrel, unless you clean after every shot. The fouling in the barrel will be the same for all other shots and you'll get better consistency. At least up to a point. Most barrels need 3-4 rounds to get best accuracy and will retain that accuracy for a while. But at some point accuracy will fall off and the barrel must be cleaned to get it back. That could vary from 50 rounds to over 300 before the barrel needs to be cleaned again.

No two barrels are exactly alike. Some will place the 1st shot close enough that you'll not notice. Others will see a significant difference. I won't hunt with a perfectly clean barrel. My rifles get cleaned prior to hunting season, but I get in 1-2 more range trips to foul the barrel before I take them hunting. They don't get cleaned until after hunting season unless they get wet. And I won't hunt with that particular rifle again until I get to the range for some practice and to foul the barrel. Same reason target shooters get a few practice shots before competing. It fouls the clean barrel for better accuracy.
 
This barrel has only about 50 rounds shot through it and like I said it don’t do it with factory rounds
 
I know this has been covered but eyes got tired reading and the replies were cut off every time I go out the first shot is always about an inch higher then the rest are about a 5/8 group now before someone says cold barrel is always high I shoot once get in the truck with a/c on high with the rifle wait 15 minutes then shoot and it’s always the same factory ammo don’t do it
A clean non lubricanted barrel will have increased friction and probably shoot low. ( mine does)
My first thought would be table manners.
Second would be rear bag if you use one, settling in
J
 
Obviously, nobody believes you when you said and said again that "factory ammo don't do it." ;) Waiting for somebody that does. Curiouser and curiouser.... but not smart enough to know the answer. :)
 
I don't have an answer, but I do have some questions.
1. Do you get in the truck with a/c on high with the rifle wait 15 minutes then you shoot the first shot or only after the first shot?
2. How are your reloads different from factory ammo?
3. How many times has this happened?
4. Has the first shot ever not been higher with your ammo?
 
OP. Your question is valid, but, you have given no information. What cartridge, rifle, factory ammo, handloads, are you using. Also are you single loading or from the magazine. Many variables. More details may get you a better reply.
 
I know this has been covered but eyes got tired reading and the replies were cut off every time I go out the first shot is always about an inch higher then the rest are about a 5/8 group now before someone says cold barrel is always high I shoot once get in the truck with a/c on high with the rifle wait 15 minutes then shoot and it’s always the same factory ammo don’t do it

Punctuation is your friend.
 
Savage axis II 6.5 creedmoor heavy barrel single load no mag in the rifle 143 grain ELDX 41.0 grains H4350 shooting at 100 yards
 
Savage axis II 6.5 creedmoor heavy barrel single load no mag in the rifle 143 grain ELDX 41.0 grains H4350 shooting at 100 yards
And in load development, how many rounds/group did you test before deciding on this load? I'd say you were close to an accuracy node but just shy of what you really needed. I don't know how you did your work up but I think if you had done 5 or 10 rounds of each charge weight working up to 42 in .4 gr increments from 36 gr, you'd have likely found that either 41 gr is not what you need or it's time for a different powder or different seating depth or different bullet.
Eta @factory ammo, you don't say what kind, but if it's an eld load as well, I'd compare coal, if not then ogive to ogive, what's the difference in seating depth?
 
It is very common in black powder competition to fire a 'fouling shot' into a practice target, or even the berm, before shooting for score.
I dont know why, but the first shot from a clean barrel can go a little wild.
 
And in load development, how many rounds/group did you test before deciding on this load? I'd say you were close to an accuracy node but just shy of what you really needed. I don't know how you did your work up but I think if you had done 5 or 10 rounds of each charge weight working up to 42 in .4 gr increments from 36 gr, you'd have likely found that either 41 gr is not what you need or it's time for a different powder or different seating depth or different bullet.
Eta @factory ammo, you don't say what kind, but if it's an eld load as well, I'd compare coal, if not then ogive to ogive, what's the difference in seating depth?
Seating depth is 2.800 I worked my way up in .3 increments all the way to 43.0 with no pressure sighns anything above 41.0 the groups got bigger 41.0 was the best the factory rounds were s&b fmj 140 grain and they were .525 group if I remember right
 
That’s only picture I have on my phone and not the best one it shows the high shot like always there are 3 lower left that I shot with a warm barrel just to see where they would hit I think that is 9 shots I always shoot five to ten rounds
 
Perfect ,
Couple things come to mind.
Some scopes will move poi after the first shot then settle down, field and cave sells scope checker mounts however this process requires a frozen scope for comparison.
Scope adjustment;
Do you know the correct way to adjust your reticle?
You may also have a parallax issue
J
 
At the matches at the rod and gun club, the serious competitors call for fouling shots before firing for score.
They insist first or second shot from a barrel clean, cold, maybe lightly oiled will impact slightly different from the next ten.
They always score ahead of me on pistol and rifle, so what do they know.
 
Perfect ,
Couple things come to mind.
Some scopes will move poi after the first shot then settle down, field and cave sells scope checker mounts however this process requires a frozen scope for comparison.
Scope adjustment;
Do you know the correct way to adjust your reticle?
You may also have a parallax issue
J
Yes I know
 
No two barrels are exactly alike. Some will place the 1st shot close enough that you'll not notice. Others will see a significant difference. I won't hunt with a perfectly clean barrel. My rifles get cleaned prior to hunting season, but I get in 1-2 more range trips to foul the barrel before I take them hunting. They don't get cleaned until after hunting season unless they get wet. And I won't hunt with that particular rifle again until I get to the range for some practice and to foul the barrel. Same reason target shooters get a few practice shots before competing. It fouls the clean barrel for better accuracy.

I will agree that no two barrels are exactly alike and the way they perform will confound any predictions that they "always do that".

I wanted to see just how repeatable greased bullets are on target. This is a practice, very popular around WW1 because the bullet jackets of the era fouled something awful and it took nasty chemicals to remove cupronickel fouling. I know the Austrialians were still greasing their 303 British rounds in the 1940's, and the Swiss were still greasing their service rifle ammunition until the 1970's.

nvm0dMv.jpg

I either greased this first shot like this
0kUSURg.jpg

or this

WYu3fXJ.jpg

This is the rifle, not a target rifle, but a first year production M70

HB9skFG.jpg

First shot at 300 yards, clean and oiled barrel, greased bullets, using zero's established at a previous range session.

vz1IdKz.jpg

The rest of the ten shot string

17GGA58.jpg

I always clean my barrels between matches, if the period between matches is days. I have shot tens of thousands of rounds in NRA competition, occasionally the match would have to start at the 600 yard line, for range maintenance reasons, and I got to see that hardly used match barrels would print their first shot in the X ring. I did not get to place the first shot at 600 yards with a well used barrel, but at 200 yards, bullets from a high mileage barrel would walk until the barrel was fouled. That was around two to three rounds, might be more if I shot really worn barrels.

I have seen point of impact on my smallbore prone rifles walk as the bore fouled. I will throw 2 shots into the berm and all is good after that.

And I have seen the first shot from a clean and oiled target pistol print way away from the pistol zero with a fouled barrel. Around shot three the barrel is shooting to its previous zero.

HTsKjB7.jpg

I would like to try more cold bore greased shots at long distance to see if constant bore lubrication produces repeatable zero's. Generally I want to try something different each trip so I probably won't get around to it.

One real problem with all non mechanical rest shooting, is that my position on the rifle or pistol first shot is always going to be different as I settle in! I see that time and again during practice, or, during my sighters in small bore prone. I will shoot enough sighters to make sure I and the rifle, are sufficiently fouled.
 
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I know this has been covered but eyes got tired reading and the replies were cut off every time I go out the first shot is always about an inch higher then the rest are about a 5/8 group now before someone says cold barrel is always high I shoot once get in the truck with a/c on high with the rifle wait 15 minutes then shoot and it’s always the same factory ammo don’t do it
I see the 1" high flier, but I don't see the 5/8" group. Maybe it's the Indian, not the arrow? ;)
 
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