Wife is not a gun person: best non-lethals for home?

[MistWolf]

People are critical of the noise and concussion of a rifle indoors but think nothing of using pepper spray in a confined space?

Arizona_Mike, this isn't a dig against your wife, far from it. I just find it incredulous people worry about muzzle blast indoors, but would think nothing of letting loose a stream of property spray in a confined space. Perhaps they would advise keeping gas mask handy.

I wouldn't trust a strobe light to stop an attacker in any circumstance.

Tasers are not nonlethal. Tasers are less lethal. There is still a risk of death.

If your wife is open to the idea, the best solution is a suppressed 9mm pistol using subsonic ammunition. My wife is very sensitive to loud noises and is not a gun person. But she claimed one of my .22 pistols for herself and is interested in getting a suppressor. She also has a 9mm she shoots on occasion. I don't tell you this to say your wife should do the same add my wife. I tell you this to explain I understand about your wife being very sensitive to loud noise.

Firearms, Tasers and pepper spray are the last resort. They are used only when a badguy has penetrated your last layer of defense. Set up those layers wisely and the chances you'll need your last resort diminishes.

 

[Mizar]

Maybe it is because pepper spays, in general, are considered to be used as a help for one to get away from an attacker - you know, to give you some precious seconds to run away safely. They are not meant for one to spray the burglar and then watch his agony while eating chips on the sofa...

 

[George P]

IF you want to go with a spray, I would forego the personal defense ones and get one made for grizzlies; much more powerful, longer stream/fog

 

[Madcap_Magician]

Using a spray in doors..........Not a good idea. Can work both ways. Meaning, it can affect the sprayer as well.

You just adapt accordingly. If your use is only going to be indoors, you get OC foam instead of stream or spray and virtually eliminate third-degree exposure. Since it's indoors, you can get a riot-sized container instead of one of the dinky 2-oz. belt units.

hornet spray better than pepper spray.

Or an electronic squirt gun; keep the reservoir filled with a 50/50 water and household ammonia. Less blow back than pepper spray in a confined area

I can't believe it's 2018 and we still have people recommending this.

 

[George P]

What an idiot; while it may not stop him, it sure can cause eye and respiratory damage down the road.......

 

[GEM]

NO - Hornet spray has been debunked in several places. Here's links - https://civiliangunfighter.wordpress.com/2017/07/27/wasp-spray-pffft-buzz-off/comment-page-1/
http://americanpreppersnetwork.com/2014/01/does-bear-spray-or-wasp-spay-work-for-self-defense.html

Second, if you permanently blind someone, the legal consequences may be very, very severe. Some states have specific statutes against the use of such spray.

It is Internet mythology that such sprays are stoppers.

About strobe lights - lots of folks have tested them and they are very spotty in real disabling ability. Folks have hung them in targets and have had people draw and shoot into the target with little difficulty. You might note that advertising them as stoppers has really dropped off. Wonder why?

 

[MistWolf]

Maybe it is because pepper spays, in general, are considered to be used as a help for one to get away from an attacker - you know, to give you some precious seconds to run away safely.

You're in your apartment. Badguy is likely to be between you and the exit.

"Excuse me sir. Could you move aside so I may crawl past while you lie on the floor writhing and wretching? I would like to depart the premises before I am completely overcome."

A completely acceptable outcome.

 

[Mizar]

If the "bad guy" is in my apartment, he would probably bleed to death from several gunshot wounds...

 

[Armored farmer]

GOOD

I swear your honor....i thought he was a hornet, my bad.

 

[dh1633pm]

A gladius works wonders. When in Rome ......

 

[FL-NC]

Tasers seem to work pretty well. If the problem is just loud noises, you have the perfect excuse to get a gemtech outback suppressor and a threaded ruger 22-45.

 

[RPZ]

NO - Hornet spray has been debunked in several places. Here's links - https://civiliangunfighter.wordpress.com/2017/07/27/wasp-spray-pffft-buzz-off/comment-page-1/
http://americanpreppersnetwork.com/2014/01/does-bear-spray-or-wasp-spay-work-for-self-defense.html

Second, if you permanently blind someone, the legal consequences may be very, very severe. Some states have specific statutes against the use of such spray.

It is Internet mythology that such sprays are stoppers.

About strobe lights - lots of folks have tested them and they are very spotty in real disabling ability. Folks have hung them in targets and have had people draw and shoot into the target with little difficulty. You might note that advertising them as stoppers has really dropped off. Wonder why?

I'd like to see someone brush off an ammonia solution " just like wasp spray". I'd pay good money to see that.

If you use a bear or "riot" pepper spray inside your home, you are likely to be out for the count too. Unless you can make an immediate exit. If the badguy(s) recover first, you are going to be in for it. To put it mildly.

Permanent blindness is... Deadly force. You only use deadly force when it is justified, as you would a handgun, hammer, baseball bat etc.

 

[Ohen Cepel]

I think bee spray is great IF you're spraying bees, or have lit it on fire and are running it like a flame thrower (not recommended).

Really, people are coming to KILL you. Not a good time to mediate the response......

 

[bubba in ca]

I suspect hornet spray has the usual warning from the Great White Father that is is illegal to use for any purpose not specified on the label. If you are in the garden shed at the time you might get away with it but carrying it around would complicate things. I've carried oven cleaner, but it was always in a bag of other supermarket stuff on the seat of the car. Better to get a strobe light or something!

For the quiet space in the house--
https://www.amazon.com/Cold-Steel-Assegai-Spear-Short/dp/B004YWK74E

 

[SamT1]

What about a 20 gauge shotgun with some bean bag loads. Make sure they are subsonic and it shouldn’t be too bad on her. I’d load 2-3 of them and then buck just Incase she needs 4 shots.

It would be nice if castle law would allow those oil filter solvent trap things to be used as long as it doesn’t leave the home.

 

[Jeff White]

There are no less lethal options that are 100% effective on everyone. Until science gives us Captain Kirk's Phaser set on stun, there won't be. I've used straight batons, the PR24 side handle baton, OC, taser, 12 gauge beanbag and baton rounds and have seen all of them fail. I have dealt with suspects who were so high that pain compliance techniques such as pressure point control tactics had little effect.

The worst of the lot are the less lethal shotgun rounds. In 1996 or so, the Illinois State Police TRT teams were involved in a 40 day standoff with an emotionally disturbed woman who had allegedly fired a shotgun at sheriff's deputies as they tried to serve a commitment order on her. I don't want to get into a discussion of the circumstances and if she should have been committed. That's not on topic here. But if you do an internet search for the Roby STandoff, you'll find all kinds of information about it. What I want to relate here is strictly related to the tactical application of 12 gauge bean bag rounds.

During the course of this standoff she would exit her house from time to time. She was shot with 12 gauge beanbags numerous times on several different occasions in an attempt to knock her down so she could be taken into custody. They had zero effect on her. In fact she took to wearing a heavy coat when she exited the house. They finally subdued her with multiple 40mm baton rounds, knocking her off balance enough so she dropped the shotgun and allowed the TRT team to rush her. I can relate many instances of people being hit with gauge less lethal rounds to no effect. It seems that when they work as advertised the suspect saw the officer shoot him with the less lethal round and thought he was being shot with a real shotgun and reacted the way television taught him.

I have personally had the best results with OC. Tasers come in second. Tasers are second because you have to get both of the barbs to make contact and that can be problematic through heavy clothing and on a moving suspect. The suspect is also able to get up and fight as soon as the electricity is off. I have been tasered in training and I know this to be a fact and it's also a known fact that some people have to be shocked multiple times before they can be cuffed.

Dogs are good and even a friendly one can be a deterrent as some people are afraid of them. But I would not rely on any dog that was not specifically trained to be a working dog to be the primary method of defense. I handled too many burglary complaints where the victim is making statements about how the dog let them down. My youngest son and family has a Siberian Husky. He is a big, beautiful dog, great with the kids. But he's not a defender or even an early warning system. We recently had the whole family over to visit. My youngest left the dog at home. After the visit went longer then expected, he called his neighbor who has a key (they watch out for each other in the cul-de-sac where they live) to let the dog out. The neighbor text back that he went in the house, called the dog, and finally had to go upstairs and wake him up to take him out to pee.

The best thing you can do is harden the house so that it will require a lot of effort for an intruder to gain entry which will give your wife warning and time to escape or move to a safe room where she can await the arrival of the police. And then make certain that she uses those locks and alarms when she is there alone.

 

[John Joseph]

Burglar alarm
Dog
Aqua Net hair spray (up close and personal)
Not necessarily in that order

 

[Jack B.]

There are no less lethal options that are 100% effective on everyone. Until science gives us Captain Kirk's Phaser set on stun, there won't be. I've used straight batons, the PR24 side handle baton, OC, taser, 12 gauge beanbag and baton rounds and have seen all of them fail. I have dealt with suspects who were so high that pain compliance techniques such as pressure point control tactics had little effect.

The worst of the lot are the less lethal shotgun rounds. In 1996 or so, the Illinois State Police TRT teams were involved in a 40 day standoff with an emotionally disturbed woman who had allegedly fired a shotgun at sheriff's deputies as they tried to serve a commitment order on her. I don't want to get into a discussion of the circumstances and if she should have been committed. That's not on topic here. But if you do an internet search for the Roby STandoff, you'll find all kinds of information about it. What I want to relate here is strictly related to the tactical application of 12 gauge bean bag rounds.

During the course of this standoff she would exit her house from time to time. She was shot with 12 gauge beanbags numerous times on several different occasions in an attempt to knock her down so she could be taken into custody. They had zero effect on her. In fact she took to wearing a heavy coat when she exited the house. They finally subdued her with multiple 40mm baton rounds, knocking her off balance enough so she dropped the shotgun and allowed the TRT team to rush her. I can relate many instances of people being hit with gauge less lethal rounds to no effect. It seems that when they work as advertised the suspect saw the officer shoot him with the less lethal round and thought he was being shot with a real shotgun and reacted the way television taught him.

I have personally had the best results with OC. Tasers come in second. Tasers are second because you have to get both of the barbs to make contact and that can be problematic through heavy clothing and on a moving suspect. The suspect is also able to get up and fight as soon as the electricity is off. I have been tasered in training and I know this to be a fact and it's also a known fact that some people have to be shocked multiple times before they can be cuffed.

Dogs are good and even a friendly one can be a deterrent as some people are afraid of them. But I would not rely on any dog that was not specifically trained to be a working dog to be the primary method of defense. I handled too many burglary complaints where the victim is making statements about how the dog let them down. My youngest son and family has a Siberian Husky. He is a big, beautiful dog, great with the kids. But he's not a defender or even an early warning system. We recently had the whole family over to visit. My youngest left the dog at home. After the visit went longer then expected, he called his neighbor who has a key (they watch out for each other in the cul-de-sac where they live) to let the dog out. The neighbor text back that he went in the house, called the dog, and finally had to go upstairs and wake him up to take him out to pee.

The best thing you can do is harden the house so that it will require a lot of effort for an intruder to gain entry which will give your wife warning and time to escape or move to a safe room where she can await the arrival of the police. And then make certain that she uses those locks and alarms when she is there alone.

Pretty much my stance on how to protect yourself. If you are alone , be aware.

 

[Armored farmer]

After 34 yrs of marriage, my enthusiasm for firearms has yet to rub off on mrs farmer. I doubt it ever will.
Here's what i did:
When we remodeled our dining room, i installed a wall safe in our closet under the stairs. In the safe is 'her' sp101. I also installed a bedroom lock on the closet door. There is also a stash of cash, ammo, and a quality flashlight in the safe.
It works for us. I feel better knowing that if im not home and there is an occurance at our house or nearby, there is at least a plan.
Im not sure she would shoot someone to save herself, but she would to save a kid. Any kid.

 

[herrwalther]

The problem with spray, of any type is you are indoors. While you may get a direct hit on whoever you are targeting, you are in an enclosed space so it will be hard for you to see and breathe as well. With routine exposure you can get acclimated to "fighting through it." But it isn't a fun experience. And as mentioned spraying is a temporary inoculation against attack or aggression.

Have your wife look into a 12 gauge with some less lethal ammo.
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/4...2-3-4-00-rubber-buckshot-15-pellets-box-of-25

 

[Madcap_Magician]

I've mentioned already that using OC foam as opposed to OC spray does mitigate a great deal of the level-three exposure you get in an enclosed environment. I would look into that.

I'm also an OC proponent because even though there are some people who are not affected by the pain of the experience, I don't believe there are any who can keep their eyes open after being sprayed, whether or not it causes them pain. So even if the assailant is not incapacitated from pain, a blinded assailant is still a big improvement in the situation.

 

[JeffG]

I still would recommend a perimeter/alarm/fallback/safe room approach.

There are enough WiFi driven camera systems, monitored by computer or smart phone, that would negate answering the door for any reason. Monitoring the front and back doors remotely would provide valuable information, whether entering, leaving or occupying the house. (perimeter) Strong lock-in-the-knob, combined with deadbolts in the door, cure 90% of intruder entry problems. Alarms set when no one is expected to enter complete the alarm portion. So will a yappy dog. Preparing a safe room and a fallback area of the house in the case of a persistent intrusion, is the last and most important piece of the security puzzle.

Drug crazed felons being what they are, less lethal is ineffective. As a career LEO, I can attest that unwrapping pepper spray, or CS gas spray on an attacker does another thing; exposes you to the same effect, and contaminates the building. You could well need a visit from Servicemaster after spraying pepper spray in your home. Tasers are great, in theory. As hard as we in law enforcement pushed for TASERS to be the magic incapacitator, there are downsides; common designer drugs negate TASER effectiveness. Loose clothing, missed dart probes, etc. leave you in a trick bag. That's why many times, officer use TASERS in the presence of drawn firearms, in case something goes wrong. Stun guns that are hand held, are a Hollywood fantasy, they really piss attackers off, (they don't incapacitate, they are compact cattle prods) resulting in more injuries/death to you!!

Recognizing that an intrusion is occurring, falling back to a designated room where firearms (loaded, locked, cocked and ready) are kept; where you can phone 911, is really the only practical answer. A solid core door, deadbolt, and a strong voice shouting, "I have a gun!" "If you come in here, I will shoot you!!" Is one of the best guarantees of your safety and survival.

Not a gun person? Sorry, sometimes, you gotta break a few eggs to make an omelet. I personally am not a "tie me up and torture or kill me, to get me to tell where the gold bullion is) There is no gold bullion, but the insanity of what goes on in a drug infused home invaders mind, knows no bounds. And trust me, drugs are the driving force behind most home invasions.

As far as protection out in public, everyone carries a lockback folding knife.....and....I have never met a housewife worth her salt that couldn't carve your gizzard out if you gave her cause, if she had a sharp knife in her hand.
My two cents...

 

[JTHunter]

There is a alarm system that, IIRC, is called "SimpliSafe". I'm not sure of the name or spelling but I have heard it advertised on Rush's show and I have read reviews from C-net, the electronics "geeks". One of the things that they liked about this system is you can set it up yourself, it's wireless, and it can be expanded as your usage changes. It does NOT have to be monitored BUT it can be - for an additional fee.

 

[herrwalther]

I've mentioned already that using OC foam as opposed to OC spray does mitigate a great deal of the level-three exposure you get in an enclosed environment. I would look into that.

I wish I was allowed to carry OC foam at work. But I am not. The downside to foam vs spray is training. While foam is more effective at keeping yourself from getting exposed, it is also harder to get it on the target area ie attacker's nose, eyes, and mouth.

There are enough WiFi driven camera systems, monitored by computer or smart phone, that would negate answering the door for any reason. Monitoring the front and back doors remotely would provide valuable information, whether entering, leaving or occupying the house. (perimeter) Strong lock-in-the-knob, combined with deadbolts in the door, cure 90% of intruder entry problems. Alarms set when no one is expected to enter complete the alarm portion. So will a yappy dog. Preparing a safe room and a fallback area of the house in the case of a persistent intrusion, is the last and most important piece of the security puzzle.

Good security is the best starting point against home attack. Even small and simple upgrades are helpful. For example, the screws that hold on door kick plates and hinges are maybe 1" long if you are lucky. Often they are shorter.. Replace the kick plates and use 2 or 3" screws, they are much harder to kick open.

 

[maxxhavoc]

There is a alarm system that, IIRC, is called "SimpliSafe". I'm not sure of the name or spelling but I have heard it advertised on Rush's show and I have read reviews from C-net, the electronics "geeks". One of the things that they liked about this system is you can set it up yourself, it's wireless, and it can be expanded as your usage changes. It does NOT have to be monitored BUT it can be - for an additional fee.

I have it, and it works well, but I am probably going to dump them. They are one of the companies that dumped on the NRA recently. There are other companies doing similar things with better smarthome support anyway.

As far as dogs go, they are pets. A SWAT cop gave a good demo of how ineffective dogs were in stopping people in a break-in. Short story is with a towel and a knife he can put just about any dog in doggy heaven in a few seconds. The bigger and more aggressive, the easier to take down. His advice was that if you get a dog as an alarm system, a Chihuahua that barks a lot and hides under the blankets is your best bet... At least if you care about the dog at all. Now 3 big dogs is another story...