1KPerDay
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Anyone tried it?
Will a flinty fire upside down?
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Mossyrock
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A fast, properly timed Siler lock will fire upside down. Can't HIT squat like that, but it will go BANG! 
Old Dragoon
Member
Any properly tuned flintlock will fire upside down. that is one way you prove your rifle. I was taught how to time flintlocks by Art Holly and we always turned them upside down to fire a pan to test them. In fact I handed him a rifle I had built and the first thing he did was turn it upside down and fire a pan of powder. All of the flinters should, (not necessarily do) do this.
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1KPerDay
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If the powder in the pan fires, does that necessarily mean that the flame will make it through the touch-hole?
I mean, seems to me that the powder would fall down and perhaps ignite higher on the frizzen or something.
Or does it all happen too fast for that?
I mean, seems to me that the powder would fall down and perhaps ignite higher on the frizzen or something.
Or does it all happen too fast for that?
Vairochana
Member
Yes it will the frizzen holds the powder in.
I was asked this question at the range by a bloke and I promptly demonstrated it for him.
What I forgot as I held the thing up and fired was that a jet of gas, fire and powder residue shoots out the vent which was now in the vicinity of my face.
That stuff hurts, can draw blood and left me with tatoo'd spots for a week until I picked all the crap out.
But yes a flintlock will shoot upside down
I was asked this question at the range by a bloke and I promptly demonstrated it for him.
What I forgot as I held the thing up and fired was that a jet of gas, fire and powder residue shoots out the vent which was now in the vicinity of my face.
That stuff hurts, can draw blood and left me with tatoo'd spots for a week until I picked all the crap out.
But yes a flintlock will shoot upside down
bigbore442001
Member
I seem to remember seeing a custom made underhammer flintlock. So it must be able to fire effectively.
Firing upside down is the test of a properly tuned lock. The good ones will do it.
1K, the powder doesn't need to burn through the vent. In fact, it shouldn't do that. That's called fuse burning and is why some people think flintlocks are slow. If the vent liner is properly coned, the heat from the priming flash will ignite the powder in the barrel without having to burn like a fuse to get to it.
1K, the powder doesn't need to burn through the vent. In fact, it shouldn't do that. That's called fuse burning and is why some people think flintlocks are slow. If the vent liner is properly coned, the heat from the priming flash will ignite the powder in the barrel without having to burn like a fuse to get to it.
Old Dragoon
Member
If the touch hole is properly drilled, the pan powder sits against the powder in the bbl. If it touch hole is proper you will put a couple kernels of powder in the pan as you tamp the ball down. We counter sunk our touch holes or used the ones that are made that way. In my old 32 Cal flinter I could almost prime the pan with FFG when I rammed the ball home. I always tilted the rifle so as to fill the touch hole with priming powder.
I prime the pan away from the touch hole so the powder doesn't touch. The heat from the flash ignites the charge without the powder having to burn through the hole. It increased my ignition speed quite a bit. I can always tell when I've allowed the prime to shift over next to the vent by the slower ignition speed.
Old Dragoon
Member
I left an F of the FFG. it should have read FFFG. If you could tell the difference in ignition, then maybe something else was wrong. I never had a problem of a long ignition. But then that was 35 years ago.
I have never heard of the Heat theory. I find a little hard to believe that there is no fire setting off the main charge. I mean the pan of primer powder fires so fast that it is burnt before the frizzen is completely open (hence, the firing upside down).
I can see the fuse idea IF the touchole isn't counter sunk. That is like a 4 lane hwy into to one lane hwy with no transition.
If you counter sink or counter bore the touch hole to have next to nothing between the main charge and the primer, then there really isn't a fuse situation. At least not one that you could tell the difference on.
I guess we didn't think of such things way back when there was only one Tipi on the Primitive Range at Friendship...and NO cabin either (1968).
By the way that was about the time they came out with the touch hole inserts.
I have never heard of the Heat theory. I find a little hard to believe that there is no fire setting off the main charge. I mean the pan of primer powder fires so fast that it is burnt before the frizzen is completely open (hence, the firing upside down).
I can see the fuse idea IF the touchole isn't counter sunk. That is like a 4 lane hwy into to one lane hwy with no transition.
If you counter sink or counter bore the touch hole to have next to nothing between the main charge and the primer, then there really isn't a fuse situation. At least not one that you could tell the difference on.
I guess we didn't think of such things way back when there was only one Tipi on the Primitive Range at Friendship...and NO cabin either (1968).
By the way that was about the time they came out with the touch hole inserts.
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1KPerDay
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A couple other guys have told me they do the same... they tilt their (right-handed) flinties to the right (frizzen/pan closed) so the priming powder sits in the right half of the pan. They insist it works much better.
I originally got the info about priming away from the vent over on muzzleloadingforum. They all pretty much had the same thing to say, and it's definately an improvement, at least in my one and only flinter. I've been shooting percussion for decades, but I'm a recent convert to flinters, so I went with their advice.
Old Dragoon
Member
Plink,
Can I ask how your touch hole is set up? Is it just a hole thru to the main charge? Or is the touch hole counter bored or counter sunk? If you have just a single dia hole thru, that is the "Fuse" problem you speak of.
The very best of both worlds is a Touch hole insert that is both counter bored and counter sunk(relieved both ways) that puts the main charge powder right next to the priming powder and she go BOOM! very quickly.
Can I ask how your touch hole is set up? Is it just a hole thru to the main charge? Or is the touch hole counter bored or counter sunk? If you have just a single dia hole thru, that is the "Fuse" problem you speak of.
The very best of both worlds is a Touch hole insert that is both counter bored and counter sunk(relieved both ways) that puts the main charge powder right next to the priming powder and she go BOOM! very quickly.
I was always under the impression that the priming powder "shoots" little burning particles into the vent hole. That way the spark gets into the main charge faster than when there is the priming powder covering the vent hole. A coned outside to the vent kinda directs the sparks that shoot out of the pile of priming powder into the vent hole. With the flint striking the frizzen and "shooting" sparks into the priming powder and the priming powder "shooting" sparks into the main charge I think it may be possible for the gun to ignite the main powder charge before the cock(hammer) is at the end of it's travel. That can make a flinter fire faster than a percussion that doesn't hit the percussion cap until the end of the hammer travel . I guess it can be said that flinters fire upside down since so many people do it to test the function of the lock. A fast lock is a big help. L&R Locks make some fast locks. Short hammer travel,less friction to the bearing surfaces of the tumbler and sear and nice fast springy main springs. I like the Durs Egg Flint lock better than a Siler. The Siler has a longer hammer travel. Anyway the lock time has a lot to do with whether or not a flint lock will fire upside down. The relationship of the vent hole in relation to the top line of the pan should be such that the vent hole is half above and half below the top line of the pan. That helps rid the rifle of the "fuse effect" and helps it fire upside down. I have a 36cal. squirrel flint lock rifle that fires in a dang near vertical position when I shoot at squirrels way up in trees that I'm standing under. That makes my neck hurt like I was trying to fire upside down. hee hee
Real black powder has a very low ignition temperature. I don't remember exactly what offhand, but in the 300-400 degree range. Apparently the heat of the prime going off so close to it is more than enough. Having the vent high in relationship to the pan helps this too. I haven't gotten around to deepening my pan yet, but that's next on the to-do list.
A book I used to devour in my High School library, Pageant of the Gun
by Harold Leslie Peterson , had an entire chapter on underhammer guns. Apparently this lock type was fully developed in the flintlock era.
Kenneth Roberts wrote a number of EXCELLENT historical novels in the 1930s, dealing with the French and Indian Wars, and the Revolution. ( Northwest Passage and the Arundel series.) I remember his characters were always priming by SLAPPING the sides of their rifles, opposite the lock. This always seemed a bit dubious to me.
Can anyone tell me if that would have a chance of working?
by Harold Leslie Peterson , had an entire chapter on underhammer guns. Apparently this lock type was fully developed in the flintlock era.
Kenneth Roberts wrote a number of EXCELLENT historical novels in the 1930s, dealing with the French and Indian Wars, and the Revolution. ( Northwest Passage and the Arundel series.) I remember his characters were always priming by SLAPPING the sides of their rifles, opposite the lock. This always seemed a bit dubious to me.
Can anyone tell me if that would have a chance of working?
If your vent hole is large enough, guns can prime themselves from the main charge. Mine does it to a certain degree with 3F, but my vent isn't as big as it could be. If I don't put my finger over the touch hole on my handgonne, it'll blow most of the charge out of it when I ram the ball!
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