Winchester 70 or remington 700?

[Clark]

I have (4) of the Win M70 pre 64, (1) post 64 M70, and (8) of the Rem700.
I spent hours today reaming a 6.5-06 chamber and headspacing it today on a Rem700.
It is a Lilja #3 barrel blank.


The Win M70 is a better rifle, but I don't think most need a better rifle for non dangerous game.

 

[I6turbo]

I've only owned a 700, it a BDL Varmint Special from the late 60s/early '70s, and never had any issues from it. But I like the feel of the Model 70 better, ESPECIALLY when comparing the modern versions of both guns. I'm a Mauser fan and all my modern centerfire bolt actions are CZ these days, but judging from handling them, I'd love a current Model 70.

On the subject of the older 700s, take a look at this pristine LNIB 1967 model. http://www.gunbroker.com/item/677042684

 

[mpia]

Winchester absolutely over Rem's. Rem's had a good rep for a long time, I own 7, but 1990-> are a crap shoot, some are not bedded correctly, surface rust on cheap steel is a problem, trigger's have burrs, lousy quality control; Buy a Cooper if money isn't an issue.

 

[Hokkmike]

I'm a fan of controlled round feed, large claw extractors, and 3-position safeties, so Winchester 70 for me. That said, my 30-06 is an old, Model 77 Ruger, and it's worked great for deer, elk and antelope since the early '80s.

Agreed ^^^^^

 

[old heeler]

I have both and like them. I remember when the old Win came out with push feed and guess new company out with XPR rifle and another push feed for Win.

 

[Clark]

My spiel

The book to get is "Bolt Action Rifles" 4th edition by de Haas.
Modern Firearms + Amazon webstore - Bolt Action Rifles

The 98 Mauser/ pre 64 M70 has:
1) flat bottomed receiver to take torque from rifling
2) controlled feed
3) Mauser claw typed extractor
4) safety on firing pin, often modified to be 2 or 3 position M70 type
5) multi stage gas filter on firing pin hole for safety
6) bolt handle is integrally forged as part of bolt body
7) safety lug below rear bridge
8) integral recoil lug
9) knife ejector in bolt lug slot
10) an inner C ring to put the tenon threads in compression

The rem 700
1) receiver round, rifling torque must go to friction on V block or pillars
2) push feed
3) little wimpy extractor
4) safety on trigger
5) simple bolt
6) bolt handle tacked on with screw and solder
7) nothing for safety if bolt lugs fail.
8) recoil lug is a modified washer that is captured by the receiver and barrel
9) plunger ejector
10) No inner C ring, so the only thing holding the barrel to the receiver is the tenon threads in tension and all the glue that Remington leaves.

Of the ~100 bolt action covered in the above book, they seem to all be on the spectrum somewhere between the simple Rem700 and the complex 1898 Mauser design.

 

[old heeler]

If model 70 is so great why is Win making XPR rifles? It's all about MONEY

 

[horsey300]

If model 70 is so great why is Win making XPR rifles? It's all about MONEY

Exactly, the xpr is Winchester's equivalent to the 783/axis2 lineup. Doesn't mean the m70 is all about money, it means there's more beef in that price tag because you already know that the 783 is a budget gun too, so why isn't the 700 all about money?

 

[eastbank]

it,s all about the money, no matter who makes them. they all are trying to keep their market share, if they don,t they go under(suppy and demand). things have changed since the 50,s-60,s for fire arm makers, its mostly adapt or disappear. most major fire arm makers have been bought and sold many times in the last 50 years. eastbank.

 

[earplug]

If money is no object why limit yourself to this pair?

 

[sage5907]

I've been a Winchester fan for a lot of years. I don't know much about the Model 70 rifles made after 1963 but I consider myself to be a knowledgeable person as it applies to the pre 64 Model 70. I don't think there has ever been a more user friendly rifle ever made, and most of the so called modern rifles have a hard time keeping up. The manufacturers just can't afford to make a rifle of equal quality today. In the past two weeks I took two 30-06 featherweight rifles to the range to sight them in with new Leupold 3-9 variable scopes. I bore sighted the rifles by looking at the neighbor's mail box through the bore and adjusting the scope to match the barrel. The top rifle was fired 1 shot at 25 yards, 2 shots at 100 yards, and three shots at 200 meters (218 yards). The scope was corrected at 25 yards and 100 yards. Attached is the 200 meter target. I had a little more trouble with the bottom rifle. I fired 6 shots at 25 yards, 2 shots at 100 yards, and three shots at 200 meters (218 yards). Attached is the 200 meter target. The shooting was done sitting flat on the ground and using only a single shooting stick. At 73 years of age, age hasn't hindered my ability to shoot, and all of my shooting is from a sitting position with a shooting stick which is the way I hunt.

 

[joed]

I own both 700s and model 70s from as early as the 1970s to new production. Just my opinion but I feel the controlled feed is over rated. Yes, I have one but I could just as easily live with a push feed for the hunting I do. Maybe if I were hunting a water buffalo in Africa I'd want controlled feed but I don't do that type of hunting.

Of the 2 rifles I like the Winchester more. But, I won't sell my Remingtons as they have been great rilfes. There have been quality complaints about newer Remington rifles, I never had a problem. My newest 700 is an SPS VS that I replaced the stock and trigger on and it has performed well.

My biggest complaint with Remington is the stock, I like a free floated barrel not a pressure point. I've always invested in stockwork when it comes to a 700.

These are my opinions only, others may have differences.

 

[TexasPatriot.308]

Winchester....Remington just aint what it used to be...

 

[Clark]

In the past year I have bought 4 Remington 700 and I am building two right now. I have them barrelled and chambered. Today is fitting stocks. Ug.
In the past year I have bought 2 Winchester M70s.

Here is a Winchester I bought this year. It was made in 1949. It has an interesting custom stock someone put on it in the last 68 years.
It is going to lose the scope, barrel, trigger, scope rings, scope mounts, sling studs, sling, and recoil pad.
I will use the action and the stock, maybe in 2018.

 

[eastbank]

the pre-64 winchesters have a coned breach and large extractor cut and while it will handle gas, the remington 700 will handle it better. and while i like the winchester safety, most rifles today have the two postion non locking type. and i have found all adjustable triggers can be made unsafe when adjusted the wrong way. for my self i like 3.5-4 lbs hunting triggers, on my target rifles lower but safe. the CF verse the PF has been going on for many years and it will go on for many more, it comes down to what you like. i have used both in africa on five hunting trips, shooting 60 some animals from cape buffalo to dikker and never had a problem. you like ford and i like chevy,s, both will get us down the road. eastbank.

 

[Clark]

For years I was using the Rem700 and Win M70 factory triggers. Now when I rebarrel I put in a Timney trigger, because I can.

 

[sage5907]

Clark, I agree about the Timney trigger. I really like to tweek a Model 70 and if I feel any trigger creep I install a Timney #401.

 

[FN in MT]

Current Rem 700 Quality is spotty. Last two I worked on were real disappointments.

I have an equal amount of Rem 700's/Clones, vs CRF Win 70's in the safe. ALL have proven accurate and reliable...but on a few....NOT without some work. Depends on WHAT You want. If You want minute of 100 yd deer...buy whichever You wish.

If You want accuracy and are willing to spend a few dollars, go Rem 700 and have it gone over by a good rifle smith. They are probably THE easiest to rebarrel, blueprint the action, etc. A Timney or some decent aftermarket trigger is a must in my opinion. Can NOT get by with a 5 pound trigger.

 

[FL-NC]

The 700. I used the M24 SWS in the army and it grew on me. I think there are more options as far as accessories for the 700 vs the 70, which may or may not matter to you.

 

[sage5907]

I think the important thing about picking a rifle be it Remington or Winchester is to stay with the same brand and style of rifle for all of your shooting. That is the only way that a person can become really proficient with the rifle. I use Winchester rifles and they all have the same style stocks and weigh about the same. Another important point is to pick cartridges that have close to the same velocity. For example, I use a 25-06, 270 Winchester. 30-06 and 338-06 and by using cartridges that have a similar velocity above 2900 fps I am able to quickly estimate the trajectory for distant targets and the lead for shooting running animals. I use bullets from 117 grain to 180 grain. I want to be able to load and unload a rifle in the dark with gloves, to run with a rifle through the brush without the bolt coming open, to see a full scope picture just by raising the rifle to my shoulder, and I don't want the bolt handle to come off if it's bumped hard. Some may say I am hard to please and expect too much out of a rifle!

 

[SwampWolf]

Between the two (Remington Model 700 or the Winchester Model 70), I'd pick the Winchester for all the many good reasons many in this thread have espoused. This may be unpopular with many, but I'd choose the Ruger Model 77 over either of them. Currently, I have two Ruger Model 77 rifles (a 30-06 and a .257 Roberts) and two Model 77 MKII rifles (a .308 and a 7x64 Brenneke); all of which were built in the "classical" style and exhibit good workmanship, excellent reliability, rugged durability and fine accuracy. I prefer bolt-action rifles having the Mauser-style extractor and having either a 2-position safety that locks the bolt shut when on "safe" (ala, most Model 77s) or ones having a 3-position safety (like the ones found on all MKII Models).

 

[Sniper66]

You should buy a Winchester Super Grade.......great looking rifle. Actually I know very little about Winchester, but do plan to buy a Super Grade someday. I own 3 Rem 700s in different calibers, .223, 243, and .270....all good shooters and never any trouble. I did change the trigger in my .223 for prairie dog shooting; I used a Shilen trigger. I've used these guns heavily and have killed many critters including 1,000s of prairie dogs with never a gun failure. I would not hesitate to buy more Remington products.

 

[Clark]

Although i like the M70, I am pouring a lot of effort into building two Rem700s for the 2017 hunting season.

By effort, I mean many of my ideas just produce scrap.