Winchester model 1906 won't lock up

[Dolton]

Hi all.....

I recently picked up a 1922 built model 1906. It's been rebarrelled and the rear stock isn't original.

The problem I am having is that the action can be cycled with the hammer in any position (and it should not, should require the hammer to be released or the firing pin pushed forward).

I have pulled the bolt/action apart, and polished the bolt with some 600 wet/dry and put it back together. The little triangular bolt lock is intact and the spring pushes the bolt rearward with authority. With the slide action removed, the bolt locks up positively and cant be opened without pressing the back of the firing pin. As soon as I put the slide action back in, the bolt cycles (doesn’t lock up) regardless of the hammer position.

The round knob on the end of the slide action that interacts with the slot in the bolt is heavily worn and allows the action slide to move back 3-4 mm before it takes up. I think this is allowing the action slide to lift the bolt...... I am hoping that the wear in the knob on the slide action that engages with the channel on the bolt is source of the problem… If not I’m completely lost as to what else to check? Any ideas?

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

If you pull the slide forward all the way, then push forward and down on the top of the bolt, does it then lock into place?

Sounds to me like the worn slide knob isnt pulling it fully into battery.

 

[Dolton]

When the action slide is run all the way forward the bolt drops down into place. If you grab the sides of the bolt you can't lift it up but pulling the action slide back will cycle the action. Pushing down on the bolt when the slide is all the way forward makes no difference as the bolt is already "in-battery" and can't go any further forward or down.

I "think" what is happening is that the wear in the slide action is allowing the pin to generate leverage from further down the channel in the bolt than it should,effectively allowing the action slide to lift the bolt but I could well be completely wrong.

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

When the action slide is run all the way forward the bolt drops down into place. If you grab the sides of the bolt you can't lift it up but pulling the action slide back will cycle the action. Pushing down on the bolt when the slide is all the way forward makes no difference as the bolt is already "in-battery" and can't go any further forward or down.

I "think" what is happening is that the wear in the slide action is allowing the pin to generate leverage from further down the channel in the bolt than it should,effectively allowing the action slide to lift the bolt but I could well be completely wrong.

Wish I still had this one apart, could probably help diagnose it for ya, but Im tryin to work off memory and Im havin trouble visualising it.....

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

Upon further review....

Far as I can tell, the firing pin lug bears against the carrier lever to lock the bolt. I cant see any way the slide cam could interfer with these parts directly, however if either the pin or lever tips are worn smooth, pulling on the slide could be exerting enough force to cause them to jump and allow the bolt to open?

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

How much effort is needed to cycle the action with hammer back? I have a 1906 as well with mismatched upper and lower that will also open as you describe. I think it may be the nature of the beast, I will take a look at mine and get back to you.

 

[Dolton]

There is some wear on the edge of the triangle shaped lug on the firing pin,but I don't think it's particularly bad......

 

[Dolton]

This is cropped from from a photo for replacement t parts and indicates that the edges aren't "sharp"?

 

[Dolton]

How much effort is needed to cycle the action with hammer back? I have a 1906 as well with mismatched upper and lower that will also open as you describe. I think it may be the nature of the beast, I will take a look at mine and get back to you.

It won't open by itself if you hold the gun vertically but you couldnt describe it as needing to be forced

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

I think the way it's designed is to be able to cycle the action with the hammer back and be able to empty the magazine and chamber without breaking parts. I believe that if the breech block locks into place and cannot be opened by grabbing the ears at the front and lifting everything is as it should be.

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

This is cropped from from a photo for replacement t parts and indicates that the edges aren't "sharp"?

View attachment 862834

How bout the tip of the carrier lever?

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

I think the way it's designed is to be able to cycle the action with the hammer back and be able to empty the magazine and chamber without breaking parts. I believe that if the breech block locks into place and cannot be opened by grabbing the ears at the front and lifting everything is as it should be.

My buddys '06 would lock up tight until the hammer is lowered. Its a safety feature to prevent out of battery firing. To empty the magazine you can pull the tube out the front and dump the rounds, leaving just the chambered round which must have the hammer lowered slowly to eject.

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

Just looked at mine, I can press down on the front of the breech block and hear it lock, it cannot be raised by grabbing the ears and lifting. However I can open it with the slide. It takes firm pressure but not a lot of force.

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

It occurs to me that if the firing pin is not retracting fully in the bolt due to gunk/rust buildup or a broken/binding return spring- that could also prevent the bolt from locking.

 

[Dolton]

It occurs to me that if the firing pin is not retracting fully in the bolt due to gunk/rust buildup or a broken/binding return spring- that could also prevent the bolt from locking.

Yes that is correct. I have polished the firing pin and applied some light oil and believe that part of system is working well, as the firing pin moves back against the spring tension allowing the lug to interface with the cutout in the receiver locking the bolt from being lifted by hand. I'll take a photo of the carrier when I get a chance. The rifle seems to be operating the same as jackrabbit' describes which makes me think it is "safe" to shoot as the bolt is locked down when the action slise is in the forward position, but there is a risk of firing with the bolt out of battery if the slide is not forward when the trigger is released

 

[Dolton]

More photos.

 

[Dolton]

And photos showing the excessive wear on the supposedly round knob on the end of the slide action.......

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

I'm not so sure that's excessive wear, mine is basically the same, I believe those are cam cuts to facilitate opening and closing the action. Good catch on the firing pin spring, that was my next suggestion. The firing pin seems to have several functions, locking the bolt, firing the cartridge and releasing the shell stop. Mine has an occasional failure to feed due to either wear or the mismatched upper/lower. I can get it to feed by pressing the back of the firing pin with my finger. It will occasionally work the thumb screw loose from shooting causing all kinds of fun things to happen.

 

[Dolton]

Ok, well if the "flat" spots are deliberate they aren't very well machined.

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

No they are not, gotta think early 1900s production. A lot of these type of guns were meant for gallery guns and expected to be shot a lot by inexperienced shooters, so were not really finished that well internally.

 

[Dolton]

Problem solved. The firing pin lock was just engaging, strong enough such that you couldnt lift it with your fingers, but the extra mechanical advantage of the slide action was enough to lift the bolt. I filled a mm or so off of the front end of the firing pin stop which allowed the firing pin to retract further to the rear and achieve more purchase in the cut out in the receiver.... locks up and cycles properly now. Thanks a lot for all of your suggestions, happy days!

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

Ahhhhhh, sweet victory!

They are pretty slick little guns from a bygone era. That one that I restored for my buddy was found in his FIL's attic. His family thinks its been up there since at least the 50s but no one now living knows if its family history goes back any farther.

It was in sad shape when he found it, but came out pretty decent. He plans on teaching his daughter with it in a couple of years when shes old enough.