Winchester replica WWII 12 gauge shells

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I load Magtech now and use for both CAS and a special slug load for a rifled 20 ga H&R, but want to see if the Winchester brass is compatible with smokeless components.
How do you guys finish off your brass shells. Roll crimp or some type of adhesive. I’m loading paper shells for an old Remington double, been eyeballing the brass magtechs.
 
Remington sold these years ago.
Unfortunately, those hulls were berdan primed.
Since it was before Magtech hulls were out, I tapered a .220 drill bit and converted them for 209s.
Some of that brass was brittle and I had several tins that split many hulls (at the head) on the initial firing.

Model 12-1.jpg

Much better results with the LP primed Magtechs.

How do you guys finish off your brass shells. Roll crimp
Don't see the need in a double.

I use the 12 gauge Lee loader finish die and gently tap with a hammer - BEFORE PRIMING OR LOADING- to get a very slight roll crimp on the mouth.
Much better feeding through a pump. I'm loading smokeless with Herco, 11 gauge card and fiber wads, with either 000, 00, or No. 4 buckshot.
Grocery sack strips are used a a shot collar.
Then I seal the 10 gauge overshot wads in place with Duco cement (when I can find it) or just plain old white glue.
After the glue is dry, I write shot size on the mouth.

JT
 
I load Magtech now and use for both CAS and a special slug load for a rifled 20 ga H&R, but want to see if the Winchester brass is compatible with smokeless components.
How do you guys finish off your brass shells. Roll crimp or some type of adhesive. I’m loading paper shells for an old Remington double, been eyeballing the brass magtechs.
Following the loading data for smokeless powder, the amount of powder (plus 9 buckshot, plus wads) leaves a lot of empty space in the shell. I ended up using a cardboard top wad, a light roll crimp, and sealing the end with white glue (Elmer's). Maybe I put too much white glue (repeated applications with drying in between) in an attempt to fill the space above the top wad. (White glue shrinks significantly as it dries.)
 
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Be very careful with those old wax-hull shells. I bought a passel at an estate sale some time ago and our dogs tore through them like cats & catnip! Ate the boxes and chewed up a great many shells. Must have been the wax.

Todd.

Although I do have a two year old pup who has munched everything in the house; after I shot the high brass shells I cut off the waxed cardboard and used the brass for cabinet pulls. According to the RE agent, it was a selling point for the guy that bought the house from me. I had excluded them, but with an all cash offer... the pulls/brass got thrown in.
 
How do you guys finish off your brass shells. Roll crimp or some type of adhesive. I’m loading paper shells for an old Remington double, been eyeballing the brass magtechs.

I only load BP in the Magtech shells (20ga). I just finish with an overshot card and a dollop of waterglass at either side. I have a home-made die that puts a slight taper in the top of the shell so that the card alone will hold, but the water glass is belts and braces.
 
I only load BP in the Magtech shells (20ga). I just finish with an overshot card and a dollop of waterglass at either side. I have a home-made die that puts a slight taper in the top of the shell so that the card alone will hold, but the water glass is belts and braces.
Is the shot contained in a shot cup or just dumped on top of the cushion wads.
 
Is the shot contained in a shot cup or just dumped on top of the cushion wads.

I don't use a shot cup. Plastic and black powder don't mix well at all. Column for 20ga is powder, over powder card, fiber wad, shot, over shot card. I use a lube cookie between the over powder card and the fiber wad to keep fouling soft. Because of the thinness of the Magtech brass, one has to use overgage components: 18ga for over powder cards and wads, 17ga for over shot card.
 
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Brass is far more water resistant than paper. This was a time that was slightly before the introduction of plastics and composites to make the hulls we know today. (Bakelite was an early plastic, but it's nothing like a shotgun hull.)

That makes sense. Thanks.
 
QUOTE="DocRock, post: 11312245, member: 258254"]I don't use a shot cup. Plastic and black powder don't mix well at all. Column for 20ga is powder, over powder card, fiber wad, shot, over shot card. I use a lube cookie between the over powder card and the fiber wad to keep fouling soft. Because of the thinness of the Magtech brass, one has to use overgage components: 18ga for over powder cards and wads, 17ga for over shot card.[/QUOTE]

What few shells I’ve loaded and shot so far, see thread “Wax Slugs” have been with black powder and I haven’t seen any reaction of black powder gases and plastic. Would seem the nitro card and fiber wads would isolate them from a shot cup.

The “lube pill” seems a good idea. Wonder if the fiber wad would hold a small amount of a 50/50 mix of crisco and bees wax applied while the lube was hot. I’ll have to give that a go. I’ve put off buying a box of the 12 gauge Magtechs until next spring and the start of the outdoor black powder season. One son had hinted the brass shells were a fit to the 1894 double barrel, Christmas is coming......;)
 
How important is it, when loading buckshot, to use a buffer (cream of wheat or similar) in between the pellets?
 
QUOTE="DocRock, post: 11312245, member: 258254"]I don't use a shot cup. Plastic and black powder don't mix well at all. Column for 20ga is powder, over powder card, fiber wad, shot, over shot card. I use a lube cookie between the over powder card and the fiber wad to keep fouling soft. Because of the thinness of the Magtech brass, one has to use overgage components: 18ga for over powder cards and wads, 17ga for over shot card.

What few shells I’ve loaded and shot so far, see thread “Wax Slugs” have been with black powder and I haven’t seen any reaction of black powder gases and plastic. Would seem the nitro card and fiber wads would isolate them from a shot cup.

The “lube pill” seems a good idea. Wonder if the fiber wad would hold a small amount of a 50/50 mix of crisco and bees wax applied while the lube was hot. I’ll have to give that a go. I’ve put off buying a box of the 12 gauge Magtechs until next spring and the start of the outdoor black powder season. One son had hinted the brass shells were a fit to the 1894 double barrel, Christmas is coming......;)[/QUOTE]

When I first started loading black powder shells, .410 in 444 Marlin cases, I used a 410 shot cup with the gas seal cut off over over-powder card and a shortened fiber wad. It made a mess. Plastic and black powder fouling was a shag to clean. If you've found a way round it, good stuff because the shot cup should help tighten up patterns.

I have tried lubing the wads themselves but went back to a cookie because I'm lazy...
 
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I had ordered supplies from Ballistic Products, with the order I received their catalog. They list a “waxed” hard card, in the listing for fiber wads for superior gas seal in all the gauges. They also list Nitro cards for better gas seals. I used the .170 card in 12 gauge for the black powder loads. Perhaps that nitro card made the difference. It’s rigid and in the 12 gauge paper or plastic a snug fit. I used the wad guide fingers in my Mec650 to insert.
 
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Howdy

My dad spent the best part of WWII in Lawrence Kansas working for Hercules Powder Company. He was mostly making rocket fuel for Bazookas. He was a foreman there and had a deferment because it was a necessary war industry.

My dad wanted to do a little rabbit hunting while he was in Kansas, but because of the war needs ammunition was hard to come by. His dad managed to find some shotgun shells and sent them to my Dad in Kansas.

Sometime in the mid 1960s I came across some of those shells.

Being naturally curious I took a sharp knife and cut into a few of them. They were nothing like the shells in that advertisement. They must have been paper hulls because plastic hulls were not available yet, and they certainly were not brass hulls. I of course dumped out some of the powder for my own backyard experiments. As I recall it was a flake powder, and burned very nicely in the back yard. I have no idea what brand those shells were, this was a long time ago. I sure wish I had some of those shells today, I have no idea what eventually happened to them..

But they sure as shooting were not brass hulls or I would not have been able to open them up with a knife.

By the way, some guys in CAS load brass hulls like that with Black Powder. A complete waste of effort in my opinion. Way too much time spent loading a few hulls. I load BP shot gun shells all the time on my little MEC Jr, I usually use Remington STS hulls. We are not allowed to use ejectors in CAS, only extractors. The basic drill is to open the SXS and jerk it backwards to send the empties flying out. STS hulls are best for this because they are made of the most slippery plastic and come flying out better than any other hulls.
 
Driftwood: relating to this cowboy action shooting. What’s the historical time frame allowed. They allow slippery plastic shells but not ejectors, my 1894 has ejectors but Im sure there were no slippery plastic shells around in 1894. Just curious. I should just Google it I guess.
 
Try and find them for actual sale. I haven't.

I hadn't been in a gun store or looked at ammo in quite some time until yesterday. I saw these shells in 2 of the 3 I went in on a trip through wilkesboro and Winston Salem NC. I actually looked at them in the last one because I noticed the wooden box. I've bought quite a few commemorative ammo items. Then I saw the price. Nearly 30 dollars for 5 rounds of buckshot. The box is pretty big for 5 rounds. Must be something else in there, packaging wise.
 
Driftwood: relating to this cowboy action shooting. What’s the historical time frame allowed. They allow slippery plastic shells but not ejectors, my 1894 has ejectors but Im sure there were no slippery plastic shells around in 1894. Just curious. I should just Google it I guess.

Howdy

There are a few different organizations that promote Cowboy Action Shooting, but the biggest one, the one I belong to, is the Single Action Shooting Society (SASS). The guns we use are representative of those used in the Old West from 1860 to 1899. However, SASS is not historical recreation, it is a shooting sport using old guns, so there are a few liberties taken. For instance, when SASS started in 1987, there were not as many Italian replica revolvers available as there are now, so for those who could not afford a Colt, a Ruger Blackhawk was a legal revolver, and still is, although they are restricted to a few categories. Likewise with ammo, plastic shotgun hulls are perfectly acceptable. We go through a lot of ammo, and like I said earlier I don't want to spend the time and money cranking out a few shotgun shells with brass hulls when I can mass produce rounds with plastic hulls on my old MEC Jr. I do have a friend who reloads Federal paper hulls, and he gave me a few a while ago to mess around with, but I have not done anything about it. I'm very happy cranking out my Black Powder loads in plastic STS hulls on my old MEC Jr.
 
Howdy

There are a few different organizations that promote Cowboy Action Shooting, but the biggest one, the one I belong to, is the Single Action Shooting Society (SASS). The guns we use are representative of those used in the Old West from 1860 to 1899. However, SASS is not historical recreation, it is a shooting sport using old guns, so there are a few liberties taken. For instance, when SASS started in 1987, there were not as many Italian replica revolvers available as there are now, so for those who could not afford a Colt, a Ruger Blackhawk was a legal revolver, and still is, although they are restricted to a few categories. Likewise with ammo, plastic shotgun hulls are perfectly acceptable. We go through a lot of ammo, and like I said earlier I don't want to spend the time and money cranking out a few shotgun shells with brass hulls when I can mass produce rounds with plastic hulls on my old MEC Jr. I do have a friend who reloads Federal paper hulls, and he gave me a few a while ago to mess around with, but I have not done anything about it. I'm very happy cranking out my Black Powder loads in plastic STS hulls on my old MEC Jr.

Thanks: I’ve thought of trying it, my neighbor in Florida is a fan I’ve got numerous percussion revolvers, 1873 SAA, Lever guns and one 12 gauge SS. An 1894 Remington, but it’s equipped with automatic ejectors. I’m puzzled by its exclusion.
 
An 1894 Remington, but it’s equipped with automatic ejectors. I’m puzzled by its exclusion.

Them's the rules.

No ejectors on side by sides, extractors only.

Most likely because most shotguns used in the Old West did not have ejectors.

Many ejectors can be made into extractors by removing a couple of springs.

Dunno about the 1894 Remington.
 
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The box is pretty big for 5 rounds. Must be something else in there, packaging wise.
The wooden box is designed for two cardboard boxes of 5 shells each. But it contains only one. There's a cardboard spacer in there to take up the rest of the space.

There's also a larger wooden box that contains five 5-round cardboard boxes. That one costs something like $143.
 
The wooden box is designed for two cardboard boxes of 5 shells each.

That makes sense. I knew it was pretty big for 5. I was going to buy it to put on a shelf in my game room. And go be honest if I'd seen that it was brass hulls I might have considered it. But I seen 30 bucks and 5 rounds and said nope.... granted I was in a store not particularly known for their everyday low prices.
 
Them's the rules.

No ejectors on side by sides, extractors only.

Most likely because most shotguns used in the Old West did not have ejectors.

Many ejectors can be made into extractors by removing a couple of springs.

Dunno about the 1894 Remington.

SASS rules generally allow firearms of 1899 and earlier. I think the “no ejectors” rule is not so much based on when that feature became available but is an effort to level the playing field. We stage the shotgun empty with the action open and load it “on the clock”. Most stages have four shotgun targets, sometimes more. A side by side with ejectors would be faster than one with extractors only.
 
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