winchester small rifle primers
- Thread starter shootinxd
- Start date
- Status
loadedround
Member
I load for two AR15's and a Ruger Mini-14 in 223/5.56 caliber and use only Winchester SR primers in all three rifles. My cases are either Lake City Match or Federal once fired ones that are used to load my ammo. Never have I had a single problem with these primers in many thousands of rounds loaded. All my loading is done on a Dillon 550B press with Dillon carbide dies. 
Thank God slamfires in AR's usually occur with some bolt closure, unlike M1/M1's which often occur out of battery.
I had one slamfire with a new brass WSR. It was during a standing stage, I dropped the round in the chamber, and dropped the bolt on the round.
Blam!, my rifle went off and took a divot out of the dirt.
I hand seat all my primers, so it was not a high primer.
But, there is more. The HM on my point, his first shot for record standing, it was a slamfire. His rifle took a divot out of the range in front of the firing line, and the primer he was using..... Federal Match.
The AR15 action is mostly likely to slamfire if you drop a round in the chamber and drop the bolt. The bolt moves faster than it does when stripping a round from the chamber, which increases the kinetic energy of the firing pin. I have changed my standing loading technique to where I drop a round in the chamber, hit the bolt release while holding the charging handle back. I lower the bolt half way and let go of the charging handle. Then bump the forward assist.
Still, you find most AR people shun the brass WSR primers for an entirely different reason: they pierce easily. In 1999 Winchester made their primers "more sensitive" in response to idiot coil cutters and folks with old mainsprings in their antiques. These folks blame the primer manufacturers when their asthmatic guns don’t have enough energy to light off the round. So, Winchester changed their good ole nickel plated primer to this soft shelled abomination.
To increase my frustration, shill gunwriters claim increased primer sensitivity is a quality attribute. But they did not provide me free firing pins when pierced WSR’s ruined a bunch of firing tips.
Last edited:
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
All primers are brass primers!
Some. or most of them now days, are nickle plated, but deep down inside, they are brass at heart!
rcmodel
Some. or most of them now days, are nickle plated, but deep down inside, they are brass at heart!
rcmodel
Agree. The first year Winchester brought the new primer out, they stamped the boxes "New Brass Finish". That label is gone now.
But for identification purposes, I call the new Winchester primers "brass" for what should be obvious reasons.
MutinousDoug
Member
I have had 1 slamfire and it was with WSR primers about 10 years ago. Slowfire, offhand, first round of the 1st string. Round was pushed into the chamber with my little finger prior to releasing the bolt.
I now load from a round placed on a SLED at just past what would be the round presented from the magazine. WSR or Rem small rifle primers equally; about 6,000 rounds without incident since.
HTH
I now load from a round placed on a SLED at just past what would be the round presented from the magazine. WSR or Rem small rifle primers equally; about 6,000 rounds without incident since.
HTH
Yea I had a problem with Winchester primers in my AR last Monday. In a course of a four hour period I had 100 of them detonate, one at a time every time I sighted in on a ground squirrel.
I usually use CCI simply because they are the cheapest around here but I just went through a 1000 of Winchester primers in my AR without a problem. The next batch will be Remington 6-1/2 small rifle primers, it was all I could find.
I usually use CCI simply because they are the cheapest around here but I just went through a 1000 of Winchester primers in my AR without a problem. The next batch will be Remington 6-1/2 small rifle primers, it was all I could find.
mallc
Member
Primer Seating Depth
I have a buddy who was experiencing regular slam-fires on his Bushmaster.
He was loading .223 on a Dillion 650 using Winchester Small Rifle Primers The primers were seated flush but not inset, .003" to .006" as recommended.
We switched him to CCI primers and the problem went away. I own a 650 myself but have not had the problem. I'm betting there is a way to adjust the primer ram but have not needed to do so.
Scott
I have a buddy who was experiencing regular slam-fires on his Bushmaster.
He was loading .223 on a Dillion 650 using Winchester Small Rifle Primers The primers were seated flush but not inset, .003" to .006" as recommended.
We switched him to CCI primers and the problem went away. I own a 650 myself but have not had the problem. I'm betting there is a way to adjust the primer ram but have not needed to do so.
Scott
cougar1717
Member
I haven't had any slam-fire issues, but I have had the firing pin puncture the primer at a small range of charge weights using Remington brass, Benchmark powder, WSR primer, 55gr Hornady V-Max bullets.
Slamfire is right on on this one.Put a round in the chamber without a mag in the rifle,point it at the backstop and hit the release,eject the round (hopefully it hasn't fired).Put a round in a mag put it in the rifle ,hit the release and eject.Compare the firing pin marks on the primers and you will see the round not stripped from a mag is about twice as wide and deep as the other.Win primers are about all I use anymore,10,000 plus no problems.
snuffy
Member
Idano, DON'T USE THOSE REM 6 ½ IN .223! Those are made very thin for use in 22 hornet,wasp and other small rimmed centerfire rifle shells. I didn't know this either, but it cost me a bolt face. Had to replace the bolt. Remington is doing us a disservice NOT putting that right on the packaging for the 6.5 primers. Use the 7 ½ primers, most say they are match primers, but they are also a little thicker for .223 in AR rifles.
On the win SR primers, I've been using them for my bushy AR for years, no problemo.
Thanks for the advice
snuffy,
Tell me your kidding, please! I bought 2,000 of those since that was all the shop had, swell. I guess if they won't take them back I am stuck shooting the 22-250 for awhile. Maybe that's not such a bad thing either since I am just about out of DP220 and I am going to have to develop a new load for the AR once my 3000 rounds are gone.
Thank you snuffy I wouldn't have know not to use them otherwise.
snuffy,
Tell me your kidding, please! I bought 2,000 of those since that was all the shop had, swell. I guess if they won't take them back I am stuck shooting the 22-250 for awhile. Maybe that's not such a bad thing either since I am just about out of DP220 and I am going to have to develop a new load for the AR once my 3000 rounds are gone.
Thank you snuffy I wouldn't have know not to use them otherwise.
snuffy
Member
Well to elaborate, the primer cup would pierce at the EDGE of the radius, or corner of the cup. The jet of hot gases acted like a cutting torch on the boltface!
FLORIDA KEVIN
Member
Would it be safe to say that if he makes up some rounds and shoots them without the primer piercing that they would be ok to use ? Kevin
snuffy,
Since you got me concerned about using the Remington 6 1/2 Small Rifle Primers in my AR I went back to the my local mom and pop sporting shop where I bought them to see if they would exchange them, I had 4000 of them.
Pardon me while I step up on my soap box and vent:
Step off soap box.
Now that is out of my system I started doing some research and found out that the Remington 6 1/2 Small Rifle Primers are the same thickness as the CCI 400 primers I have been using. Here is a comparison chart I found:
Since I have been using CCI without any issues so I think I am going to have to give them a try, but I will be wary.
Since you got me concerned about using the Remington 6 1/2 Small Rifle Primers in my AR I went back to the my local mom and pop sporting shop where I bought them to see if they would exchange them, I had 4000 of them.
Pardon me while I step up on my soap box and vent:
They told me only Federals had problems in ARs and tough **** on an exchange for the CCI that were cheaper. At this point I let them know I was done supporting them and I was taking my business to the big box stores where I don't expect any service but the prices are lower and that I would catch them again in their going out of business sale.
Step off soap box.
Now that is out of my system I started doing some research and found out that the Remington 6 1/2 Small Rifle Primers are the same thickness as the CCI 400 primers I have been using. Here is a comparison chart I found:
Since I have been using CCI without any issues so I think I am going to have to give them a try, but I will be wary.
Attachments
snuffy
Member
Idano, do what you think is best. But my warning may have you looking at each shell as it's fired. Then if they do what they did to me, you may catch it before it affects your bolt face. I was doing a lot of shooting that day, several hundred rounds BEFORE I started picking up empties. I noticed the primer piercings, then looked at the bolt! Too late then!
This topic dredged up a memory of my contender (super 16"), when I was firing some .223 before I got my AR. Same problem, gas cutting of the area around the firing pin hole. On the contender, that is actually a separate FP bushing, that's replaceable. The fine folks at TC replaced the bushing free of charge, I just had to send it to them.
Your chart says the thickness is the same. So I dunno why they did that to me. And no, the loads were not hot loads by any means. Simply replacing with either rem 7.5 or WSR primers, yielded good shooting, safe rounds.
Too late then!This topic dredged up a memory of my contender (super 16"), when I was firing some .223 before I got my AR. Same problem, gas cutting of the area around the firing pin hole. On the contender, that is actually a separate FP bushing, that's replaceable. The fine folks at TC replaced the bushing free of charge, I just had to send it to them.
Your chart says the thickness is the same. So I dunno why they did that to me. And no, the loads were not hot loads by any means. Simply replacing with either rem 7.5 or WSR primers, yielded good shooting, safe rounds.
Snuffy,
I am not taking your warning lightly I just don't know what else to do with 4000 primers. That's a lot of primers for only my 22-250. I am only going to load up about 20 and examine each one very closely and see if they are any different then the CCI and Winchesters after I shoot them.
I am not taking your warning lightly I just don't know what else to do with 4000 primers. That's a lot of primers for only my 22-250. I am only going to load up about 20 and examine each one very closely and see if they are any different then the CCI and Winchesters after I shoot them.
ArchAngelCD
Member.
shootinxd,
Like the others have already told you, all primers are brass. I'm guessing Winchester just decided to stop plating their as a cost saving method. I happen to like both CCI and Winchester primers but I think I get better and more consistent results with Winchester primers so i buy them whenever they are available.
Like the others have already told you, all primers are brass. I'm guessing Winchester just decided to stop plating their as a cost saving method. I happen to like both CCI and Winchester primers but I think I get better and more consistent results with Winchester primers so i buy them whenever they are available.
This is sort of off topic and I'm sure we all would hate to "lose" on a deal like that but I think your shop did the right thing. Would you really want to shop at a place that accepted returns on ammunition or reloading components? You wouldn't know if someone has swapped brands, magnum for non-mag, rifle for pistol primers, etc. I think its a basic safety thing. The big box store probably wouldn't accept them either.
rodregier
Member
Indeed, most companies selling reloading components or ammunition have well-founded policies about not accepting returns.
Midsouth's version:
http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/faq.asp#faq4
Software, gunpowder, primers, percussion caps, loaded ammo and liquids cannot be returned.
Midsouth's version:
http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/faq.asp#faq4
Software, gunpowder, primers, percussion caps, loaded ammo and liquids cannot be returned.
Roccobro
Member
Soo... If your not going to get any different service, why not save money and spend your hard earned cash elsewhere to begin with? Sounds good to me. I get excellent service from the companies I deal with so far, without ever even seeing a face on the inter-web.
Justin
Matt Dillon
Member
I use CCI type 41 primers in all my semiautomatics that use small rifle primers. I'm sure that you can sell your surplus primers on eBay, as I have purchased many primers from there.
- Status
