Wingmaster TB purchase

[dmarbell]

I found an 870TB for sale locally, and jumped on it. I got it for $250, which I thought was a relative bargain. The gun shows some wear, a few scratches on the receiver, and some dings on the underside of the stock. Without good gun knowledge, I'd call it 70-80% original condition. Except for the following, and it's something I didn't see until I got the gun home. It looks like the trigger group has been replaced. The trigger guard is matte finish, which I know wasn't original to the gun.

With the scratches and dings, I decided to buy the gun as a trap shooter, not a show gun. If the trigger group is truly an Express replacement, how much did I over pay for the gun? Can I, and should I, get a blued group for the gun? I got it today, and have yet to shoot it. Pictures to follow.

BTW, it's 30" full choke vent rib barrel, stamped "cd." Is that 1983 manufacture date, or 1957?

Danny

 

[Dave McCracken]

No TBs in 57, but....

Barrels get swapped faster than spouses in Holllywod. You've maybe a 50/50 chance it's original to that 870.

Better to use Remingtons Customer Service line. 1-800-243-9700 will get you a born on date if you give them the serial number. FWIW, ALL trap grades are great shotguns, regardless of age.

A couple things about trap 870s....

Many have lots and lots of rounds behind them. After all, trap guns get used more than most other shotguns. Since 870s last longer than Stonehenge, this is not a major prob.

Some new springs may be in order. Firing pin springs are often broken and still function most of the time. Check the mag spring for kinks and corrosion.

Usually the shell latches in trap guns are in good shape but check them for wear at the tips.

The trigger group on my TB is less glossy than the receiver. I doubt you've an Express TG. Even if so, you got oneheckuva shotgun for $250. BTW, I see no disadvantage to the Express TG.

I have seen a couple TGs with the finish removed, another gold plated. Seems to be non critical in function.

Does it have a straight stock or one with a Monte Carlo comb? The M/C stocks bring a bit more.

 

[dmarbell]

Wingmaster TB Purchase - pics

Here are some pics which show the condition. Note discoloration and cracks on the fore end of the stock. Also, the dings and dents in the stock and forearm. Gun was shot and not kept in closet, but that's what trap guns are for.

Dave (and all) - opinion on the "value" of adding MC stock and forearm, adjustable comb stock and forearm, other comp-style stock and forearm, refinishing/rebluing the receiver, exchanging trigger group. (Maybe you can see the different finish on the trigger guard - not less shiny, but a matte finish.) Also, the forearm has a lot of rotational play - my 16 gauge, made in 1969 and used for hunting only, is very tight compared to this gun.

Maybe they can be found for less, but 90-95% TBs seem to be $425-475 asking price. I therefore have $200-250 or so to spend and make this gun over. I don't want to go overboard, as a NIB Classic Trap can be had for $679 plus shipping and FFL fee. --I could shoot the older gun, and hand the Classic to anyone who wants to see what I'm hitting all those birds with - ;^) --

Just learning about submitting pics here. Each pic was almost to the limit for jpg, so I made a collage. The white specs are flaws in the pics, not on the gun.

Danny

 

[dmarbell]

Wingmaster TB Purchase - Pics

New attempt at pics. Files loaded into Printmaster and then exported to jpg for (almost) maximum upload size.

ATT: Moderator. If these pics are not signicantly better, you may delete this post. If they are, you may delete the previous post uploads.

Danny

 

[SigfanUSAF]

Is that the plastic trigger housing? If so, its a 1990s vintage express housing(pre-ILS). The older Wingmaster guards weren't blued, just a semi gloss anodizing on the aluminum. Oh, and you still got a good deal. You could part it out on Ebay in 7 days and make $4-500. Hope this helps.

 

[dmarbell]

Trigger guard on 870TB

Sigfan,

Good call. The TB trigger guard is not metallic, or at least a magnet will not stick to it. Could be aluminum, like the one on my Wingmaster 16 gauge made in 1969. I'd bet this gun was made in 1983, and I don't think the rough-grained matte finish shown on the trigger guard was available then.

Danny

 

[Dave McCracken]

I stand corrected. That seems to be an Express TG.

The gun is worth the price, but some fixing up may be in order.

Refinishing the wood will help the looks, but it's functionally complete.

I got an idea. Mayhap someone swapped more than the TG.

I suggest you shoot this for fiunction soon and see if there's any probs.

As for that forearm rotation, tighten up the nut at the front of the action bars.

 

[dmarbell]

Wingmaster TB Puchase

Dave,

I know you posted some time back that you liked your TB better than the new Classic Traps. Why? And the extended question is this: (assume I have a good trap receiver and barrel, despite the trigger group situation, which is fixable in any case. Also assume that I will never be satisfied with a gun with scratched bluing and banged up wood, unless I've been the one doing the scratching and banging!)

Is it more fun, satisfying and enlightening to take a gun like I have, add another stock, say an MC or adjustable comb, with matching forearm, and tweak the mechanics and metal finishes, or buy a like-NIB gun like the TC?

Danny

 

[The Deer Hunter]

Thats a nice stock, they dont make them anymore like that. I would recommend having it restored or restoring it yourself.

the trigger- you didnt overpay too much.

EDIT: whats TB stand for?

 

[Superreverb]

whats TB stand for?

"T" is for Trap. "B" is the grade.

Nice gun, dmarbell! You done good!!! Dave is partial to his TB like I'm partial to my TC - both of us could probably buy and shoot other trap guns if we really wanted to, but why bother - our Remmies powder the targets just as well as anything


As an aside to Dave: I stopped by the folks house this evening on my way back from Gettysburg BG fest. Miss Parker and I are looking forward to shooting with you on Friday

Ed

 

[Dave McCracken]

A couple reasons I prefer my TB over a new Classic Trap are....

First, there's no gold colored badge on the receiver. Some folks like it, but I find it jarring.

No locking travesty of a safety.

Great wood. A blank of this quality and figure would be Custom Shop stuff now, not standard factory issue.

Good walnut has gotten scarcer and more costly since the 70s when mine was made.

Stumbling on a NIB TB would be nice. Restoring this to near new would also be nice and may provide more personal satisfaction. That's your call.

It would certainly validate your PETP membership.

And with parts all over the country and Net, you could swap stocks or refinish that one, have the metal redone, and get gun good for generations of use.

TDH, Remington target guns came in various grades. At one time, there were TA,TB, TC guns from the factory, with TD and TF available by special order only.

TB's had nicer wood than TAs. Both had pressed checkering. TCs had very nice wood with cut checkering. TDs had half coverage engraving, TFs had full coverage.

Almost all trap grades(and Skeet Grades) had great triggers, good wood and a little extra care in putting them together.

HTH....

 

[Brian Dale]

Sorry; I'm slow this morning.

It would certainly validate your PETP membership.

People for the Ethical Treatment (= a clean kill) of (clay) Pigeons?

Nice gun, dmarbell.

 

[Dave McCracken]

superreverb, looking forward to.

Happy Bob, People for the Ethical Treatment of Pumpguns. It's a rescue group devoted to saving all those old pumps languishing away in closets, pawnshops, etc. See old Thread.

 

[dmarbell]

Refinishing TB stock, etc.

I am extremely happy I found this list, and all you PETP guys!!

I was not giving a second thought to ditching the current stock, which I now realize is worth keeping, restored or not, and replacing it with a new, cheap, current, MC or straight comb stock. It would have been a major PETP faux pas.

So, below are some detailed pics. On one, you can see the deformed checkering, which might be permanent. I can't tell yet whether it has been banged and flattened or it's petrified dirt filling the checkering.

How do I go about refinishing this fine piece of wood? Are there kits? Please make recommendations.

I will not be in a hurry to replace the trigger group, but I would like to restore it also. Is there a good source for TB groups, and do I need such an animal for this gun?

What should I expect to pay for re-bluing? Do the re-blue-ers fix the scratches, or is this something I can do in advance?

Again, thanks for the help and encouragement. I love 870 pump guns. God has to be a PETP member, or why else would I have found a TB within 15 miles of my house for sale? And the seller didn't know it was a TB when he put the ad in the paper!

Oh, one other thing. I called Remington, and they said the gun was made in 1963. The barrel stamp came out 1983. Based on the "history" page on Remington.com, 870 TB start date was 1976. I believe the receiver was made in 1983, and this is the original barrel, but I couldn't get the Remington guy to budge on his 1963 date. Any thoughts on that? Is the Remington TB date wrong, or am I misreading the page?

Danny

 

[Superreverb]

You gun is more than likely a 1963 judging from the serial number. My current #1 TC was bought, brand new, by my Dad in '66 - serial is 1,13X,XXX. Your serial is six digits in the 800,000 range.

Also, don't worry too much about the barrel date. It could be a different barrel than what she originally came with. I've got a drawer full of 870 bbls that have dates ranging from the mid-'60s to the early '90s. I could (theoretically) sell my late-80's TC with an early 70's barrel or my Mom's mid-60's TC with a 90's Rem-choke trap barrel, or... you get the idea


The history page, as far as models go, is kind of befuddling to me date-wise.

 

[Dave McCracken]

Nice wood and well worth restoring. Call Brownell's for assistance on a refinish kit. Out of the loop on rebluing, maybe someone else has input.

Of course, you could sent it to Doug Turnbull, and for the price of a couple new WMs get this done like new.

Number Six may get the treatment in the future. Redo the wood, reblue to eliminate the mild wear marks on the receiver and maybe have some hot rod style flames inlaid around the ejection port in White, Red and Yellow Gold.

Tastefully done, of course....

 

[Superreverb]

Number Six may get the treatment in the future. Redo the wood, reblue to eliminate the mild wear marks on the receiver and maybe have some hot rod style flames inlaid around the ejection port in White, Red and Yellow Gold.

Tastefully done, of course....

Pair of fuzzy dice hanging from the pistol grip cap.....

 

[dmarbell]

Barrels

Superreverb,

Do you have a longish, full or modified 16 gauge barrel, pref. vent, among that draw full of barrels, gathering dust or rust? My original, new in 1969, 16 gauge plain 26" IC gun could use another barrel. If I could have found a barrel a while back, though, I probably would never have taken this current journey.

Danny

 

[Dave McCracken]

No fuzzy dice, but maybe a soft comb and pad done in Naugahyde.....

 

[foghornl]

And don't forget the "Neon Lamp" in the fore-end cap...like some CB'ers had on their antennas waaay back when the CB boom was big...


OK, OK...I'm showing my age...talking mid-late 70's here for the CB boom

 

[Superreverb]

Do you have a longish, full or modified 16 gauge barrel

Nope - sorry, I don't. All of my barrels are 12-ga. You could try ebay, tho.

 

[bosshoff]

Do the wood restoration yourself. It aint a Parker. If you really screw it up (not likely) you are not destroying history.
I've done this same restoration myself, and found it very easy, and quite fulfilling. Stip the varnish with a good chemical stripper from Ace Hardware. (You may need to do this a few times.) A new toothbrush works to get the gook out of the checkering. Follow the directions on the can, i.e. wear gloves, and rinse the stock with water afterwards. You can use a OOOO steal wool to smooth out the wood. If you are daring, you can put a hot iron against the dents (after you've moistened the stock) to pull them out/raise them a bit. Then look at the color of the wood. The stripper will have taken most of the color from the wood. Go to Ace and select a small can of your favorite Minwax color (I used Dark Walnut) and give it one coat. See how it looks, and if you are happy, spray it with Minwax Urethane in a can. I used a "satin" finish, which looks awsome. All of this is fun, and easy, and very rewarding.

 

[dmarbell]

Bosshoff

Thanks, that was going to be my next question, how to do the refinish. I called Brownells and talked to a tech, but didn't get a lot of good info. He did mention the iron, and recommended a spray-on finish. I think I'll give this a try, with a stripper, stain and finish. (I had a 'stripper' line go through my head, but I'll let it go!) I remember from my shop lessons 37 years ago, if you sand and steel-wool between numerous coats, you can have a real good looking piece of wood. I'll report back.

Danny