With Fred out, a new strategy
- Thread starter joemerchant24
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Moderation is inherently inconsistent, seeing as it is something done by multiple human beings, all of whom have their own trigger points. I also suspect they really dislike closing down any discussion unless they feel it is way off topic, or crosses their own personal line in the sand.
tinygnat219
Member
No, I understand Libertarianism very well, shoot I LIKE their stands on the issues. However, the Libertarian party in its current state has no idea how to win.
Funny, from what I read about the Libertarian party, they were about returning to the roots of the Constitution, and challenging "the cult of the omnipotent state and defend the rights of the individual."
That quote was taken from here: http://www.lp.org/issues/platform_all.shtml under the "Statement of Principles" and sums it up rather nicely. If that's not about "fixing current problems" then I am not sure what is. Only problem the Libertarians really have here is HOW are they going to do this? I see no plan, no motion, no action beyond a distant 3rd place finish every year.
"repeal taxes" is a good idea, but how are they going to do this? Where's the economic model that shows that this really works?
I've given money to Paul, mostly because he needled the Future Captain of our Police State, Giuliani, and he brings an interesting perspective to the election. However, if he could get a clue about Foreign Policy, he'd be a shoo-in.
alsaqr
Member
"I love the "send a message" crowd. Seriously, who are you people and what makes you think the Republicans will give a crap about what you people think?"
Big Daddy Bush gave a crap when gun owners and mainline Republicans who believed his "no more taxes lie" stayed at home or voted for Ross Perot. Bush was livid at gun rights folks for "betraying" him. Big Daddy Bush made the mistake of believing that gun right folks would have to vote for him-the lesser ot two evils.
Big Daddy Bush gave a crap when gun owners and mainline Republicans who believed his "no more taxes lie" stayed at home or voted for Ross Perot. Bush was livid at gun rights folks for "betraying" him. Big Daddy Bush made the mistake of believing that gun right folks would have to vote for him-the lesser ot two evils.
ieszu
Member
Not one to speak politics on a non-political forum...
However, While you may like Ron Paul (and I think some of his ideas are great), the only thing we can do to help preserve our liberties is to vote for Paul in the primaries and then vote for the republican candidate... that way the powers that be see our point of view but know we are not single issue voters...
Our system is not broken.... the purpose of third parties to show the mainstream what support various ideas have, and then they can pick and choose accordingly.
And how could Romney be broke (as one person claimed)???? The guy is worth over $500 million dollars.... and he has not spent that much yet!
If you want to push RKBA with the candidates, call their national, state and local headquarters and make a big deal about it... Only by making our voices heard (in addition to voting) can we make a difference!
Just my $.02
(I think this was on topic
)
However, While you may like Ron Paul (and I think some of his ideas are great), the only thing we can do to help preserve our liberties is to vote for Paul in the primaries and then vote for the republican candidate... that way the powers that be see our point of view but know we are not single issue voters...
Our system is not broken.... the purpose of third parties to show the mainstream what support various ideas have, and then they can pick and choose accordingly.
And how could Romney be broke (as one person claimed)???? The guy is worth over $500 million dollars.... and he has not spent that much yet!
If you want to push RKBA with the candidates, call their national, state and local headquarters and make a big deal about it... Only by making our voices heard (in addition to voting) can we make a difference!
Just my $.02
(I think this was on topic
)axegrinder
Member
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- 9
MutinousDoug said:
"The next POTUS will serve for 8 years at the most. If a Dem is elected then I see Ruth Ginsberg retiring from the Supreme Court. Two other SCOTUS positions will likely become vacant in the next 4-8 years to be filled by our new president/s. I think Hillary would nominate Bill to that vacancy or any opening in the court. Just to get him out of the White house. He will make a mockery of that position for the next 25 (+!) years just as he did to the presidency for 8."
That's one of the most terrifying scenarios ever put forth, anywhere!
I'm sure that the Clintons wouldn't hesitate to do such a thing, in that
the word "shame" isn't in their little red books.
You should write horror, man; you're scarier than Stephen King.
"The next POTUS will serve for 8 years at the most. If a Dem is elected then I see Ruth Ginsberg retiring from the Supreme Court. Two other SCOTUS positions will likely become vacant in the next 4-8 years to be filled by our new president/s. I think Hillary would nominate Bill to that vacancy or any opening in the court. Just to get him out of the White house. He will make a mockery of that position for the next 25 (+!) years just as he did to the presidency for 8."
That's one of the most terrifying scenarios ever put forth, anywhere!
I'm sure that the Clintons wouldn't hesitate to do such a thing, in that
the word "shame" isn't in their little red books.
You should write horror, man; you're scarier than Stephen King.
earplug
Member
I'm a Ron Paul supporter. I have rounded up several in my Colorado precinct to vote for him in the caucaus.
During my door to door canvasing the only other GOP candidate with any real support is Romney.
In Nevada Ron Paul came in second behind Romney. Much of the Romney support came from the LDS vote.
Ron Paul is the better man based on past performance and record.
Ron Paul has gained respect from DEM's who can't stand there other choices.
If Ron gets the ticket, he has a good chance of winning.
During my door to door canvasing the only other GOP candidate with any real support is Romney.
In Nevada Ron Paul came in second behind Romney. Much of the Romney support came from the LDS vote.
Ron Paul is the better man based on past performance and record.
Ron Paul has gained respect from DEM's who can't stand there other choices.
If Ron gets the ticket, he has a good chance of winning.
alsaqr
Member
"If a Dem is elected then I see Ruth Ginsberg retiring from the Supreme Court. Two other SCOTUS positions will likely become vacant in the next 4-8 years to be filled by our new president/s. I think Hillary would nominate Bill to that vacancy or any opening in the court. Just to get him out of the White house. He will make a mockery of that position for the next 25 (+!) years just as he did to the presidency for 8."
I continue to hear this phoney scenario from other Republicans. Do you have some godly insight into who Romney or Rudy Baby would appoint to SCOTUS?
Just how does this help gun owners if Mitt Romney appoints his bud, Fat Butt Weld to SCOTUS? Is he going to then send his Justice Dep't lackey off to give SCOTUS another "friend of the court" brief aimed at further gutting the Second Amendment? This is what Wya is doing now.
I continue to hear this phoney scenario from other Republicans. Do you have some godly insight into who Romney or Rudy Baby would appoint to SCOTUS?
Just how does this help gun owners if Mitt Romney appoints his bud, Fat Butt Weld to SCOTUS? Is he going to then send his Justice Dep't lackey off to give SCOTUS another "friend of the court" brief aimed at further gutting the Second Amendment? This is what Wya is doing now.
zxcvbob
Member
We've got a new pro-RKBA Democrat for a US Representative in the last election. I intend to keep voting for him. We need more good Democrats to rise up through the seniority process into leadership positions. Infiltrate and weaken the enemy might be a better strategy than putting so much faith in the Republican party.
So you are telling me that ALL of our nations problems stem from RKBA? I will admit that this is a MAJOR issue, but there are other MAJOR issues with this country that don't have anything to do with gun control.
I fail to see how focusing on one issue equals a broad view and taking a look at all of the issues equals narrow and shortsighted vision.
Wow I'm surprised this thread has gone so long without being locked and I suspect that it's because the topic is SPOT ON to the requirements of the category.
I'll weigh in briefly as I get my last class of the day, American Government, started on their notes and other assignments.
The key to remaining free is to decisively control the Congress both upper and lower Houses. Without the US Senate no President can ratify any antigun UN Treaty that might waft thru the doors. With a grip on the House of Representatives, no antigun bill can launch without funding which originates in the House. No gun grabbing candidate to the USSC will be confirmed with a conservative grip on the Senate. In the great scheme of things, the President can propose but the Congress either ratifies, confirms or provides funding. A grip on these areas is more important than who sits in the Oval Office.
The sole exception is if the emergency Executive Orders are triggered by a national catastrophe such as a nuclear 911. Then all bets are off, the Bill of Rights disappears and whomever is President at that moment has the power to make himself "King." A moral individual truly worthy of the Presidency will of course return this country to a state of democracy after the disaster passes. Anybody know of any politician aside from Ron Paul who fits this description? From any political party? Me either. Ron Paul hasn't a snowball's chance in Hell of winning.
I'll weigh in briefly as I get my last class of the day, American Government, started on their notes and other assignments.
The key to remaining free is to decisively control the Congress both upper and lower Houses. Without the US Senate no President can ratify any antigun UN Treaty that might waft thru the doors. With a grip on the House of Representatives, no antigun bill can launch without funding which originates in the House. No gun grabbing candidate to the USSC will be confirmed with a conservative grip on the Senate. In the great scheme of things, the President can propose but the Congress either ratifies, confirms or provides funding. A grip on these areas is more important than who sits in the Oval Office.
The sole exception is if the emergency Executive Orders are triggered by a national catastrophe such as a nuclear 911. Then all bets are off, the Bill of Rights disappears and whomever is President at that moment has the power to make himself "King." A moral individual truly worthy of the Presidency will of course return this country to a state of democracy after the disaster passes. Anybody know of any politician aside from Ron Paul who fits this description? From any political party? Me either. Ron Paul hasn't a snowball's chance in Hell of winning.
Rocketman56
Member
Another suggestion
OK... I've seen a few ideas tossed around to solve this issue.. May I suggest another?!
It would appear outside of Ron Paul that the record of the remaining Presidential candidates on the 2A is spotty..
Instead of focusing on the Presidential election, make sure your local US Representative candidate/choice is solidly pro-2A... This would build a wall that would prevent any
legislation from going to the President.. This would also get the word through
to the leaders of the parties that anything anti-2A is going to be met with enormous
resistance..
Wouldn't hurt to check out your US Senator (at least 1/3 are up for election this time), too!
They sit in review of Supreme Court justices and that could be important down the line..
THANKS!
Steve
OK... I've seen a few ideas tossed around to solve this issue.. May I suggest another?!
It would appear outside of Ron Paul that the record of the remaining Presidential candidates on the 2A is spotty..
Instead of focusing on the Presidential election, make sure your local US Representative candidate/choice is solidly pro-2A... This would build a wall that would prevent any
legislation from going to the President.. This would also get the word through
to the leaders of the parties that anything anti-2A is going to be met with enormous
resistance..
Wouldn't hurt to check out your US Senator (at least 1/3 are up for election this time), too!
They sit in review of Supreme Court justices and that could be important down the line..
THANKS!
Steve
bogie
Member
Guys, think of it this way...
Chuck Schumer WANTS you to vote third party.
I suspect that more than a few third party advocates who have been prowling the internet are doing so from the offices of the Democratic National Committee...
Chuck Schumer WANTS you to vote third party.
I suspect that more than a few third party advocates who have been prowling the internet are doing so from the offices of the Democratic National Committee...
Obama: Said he would go after assault weapons. Not my vote.
Hillary: Doesn't have to say it now. Her record is clear. Not my vote.
Thompson: Too late too get in, too late to start running, and too late to get out in my opinion.
McCain: He'd probably protect guns. I agree. He also would probably bomb Iran. Doing so would throw the whole world into a fire. Looking at the economy, I'm of the opinion we ought to forgo our wars for awhile and work on fixing things here at home. The war on terror? We've beaten 'em as far as I'm concerned, and I'd rather see the National Guard building new bridges in Minnesota than new schools in Iraq. Yeah, call me heartless, but we may be looking at a recession or depression soon, so it's time to start bringing the jobs, the troops, and the money home IMO. And time to kick some illegals out. McCain doesn't have such a good record on that. And finally I think he's just too old. He's 72 from what I hear. I look at him at speeches and he looks like he's in pain just standing there. I wonder if he'll even make it to the convention.
Ron Paul: Be great if he would win. He would scare the bejezzus out of corporate anti-individual freedom types. But he doesn't stand a chance now that I can see. Not enough support.
Guiliani: Cross dressing, ex-New Yorker, who ignored 5 of the first states in the nation in order to concentrate on Florida, the first place that "real people" (not us idiot rubes in fly-over country in other words) live. If he jets back and forth between California and New York he might come up with enough delegates to win. In that dress though...he's gonna win the South? I don't think so. He may not even win his own home state. Polls there aren't looking to good for him. As Arnold might say, "Once anointed! Now?...Disjointed!"
Romney: Flip flopper label for one. He's going to have real problems in the South cause he's Mormon. His record isn't real clear. He's too pretty to me. I want an ugly looking Abe Lincoln joker in there right now. Someone who isn't full of himself.
Huckabee: An odd duck. In his favor, he's ugly...I guess I should say, physically unattractive. Supporter of 1st and 2nd amendment. Throws the God Talk around enough to make people who aren't God Talkers themselves suspect he's a religious wacko, but on his straight line discussion about what he'll do in Washington, he comes off sounding at times like Ron Paul Light...which is ok with me. If he gets too preachy with the God stuff, there'll be Congress and the Supreme Court to put a kibosh on any excesses of gestures he might want to make to his base. And I'd like to see a guy in there who thinks there is SOME Higher Authority waiting to burn him to a crisp in the afterlife instead of acting like they ARE the Higher Authority. Personally I'll probably vote for him. Does he stand a chance in the general election? Probably not. Of course that might depend upon how fractured the democratic party is and how well the economy is doing come election time. Right now I think the Republican Party would have a tough time with ANY candidate. People are ready for change.
Third Party: There's enough dissatisfaction with government to give them a strong showing if they've got the right mix of political ideas. But I don't see one with the right mix of ideas showing up. They are either going to be left leaning, or right leaning, and have not enough of the middle.
We'll see though.
Hillary: Doesn't have to say it now. Her record is clear. Not my vote.
Thompson: Too late too get in, too late to start running, and too late to get out in my opinion.
McCain: He'd probably protect guns. I agree. He also would probably bomb Iran. Doing so would throw the whole world into a fire. Looking at the economy, I'm of the opinion we ought to forgo our wars for awhile and work on fixing things here at home. The war on terror? We've beaten 'em as far as I'm concerned, and I'd rather see the National Guard building new bridges in Minnesota than new schools in Iraq. Yeah, call me heartless, but we may be looking at a recession or depression soon, so it's time to start bringing the jobs, the troops, and the money home IMO. And time to kick some illegals out. McCain doesn't have such a good record on that. And finally I think he's just too old. He's 72 from what I hear. I look at him at speeches and he looks like he's in pain just standing there. I wonder if he'll even make it to the convention.
Ron Paul: Be great if he would win. He would scare the bejezzus out of corporate anti-individual freedom types. But he doesn't stand a chance now that I can see. Not enough support.
Guiliani: Cross dressing, ex-New Yorker, who ignored 5 of the first states in the nation in order to concentrate on Florida, the first place that "real people" (not us idiot rubes in fly-over country in other words) live. If he jets back and forth between California and New York he might come up with enough delegates to win. In that dress though...he's gonna win the South? I don't think so. He may not even win his own home state. Polls there aren't looking to good for him. As Arnold might say, "Once anointed! Now?...Disjointed!"
Romney: Flip flopper label for one. He's going to have real problems in the South cause he's Mormon. His record isn't real clear. He's too pretty to me. I want an ugly looking Abe Lincoln joker in there right now. Someone who isn't full of himself.
Huckabee: An odd duck. In his favor, he's ugly...I guess I should say, physically unattractive. Supporter of 1st and 2nd amendment. Throws the God Talk around enough to make people who aren't God Talkers themselves suspect he's a religious wacko, but on his straight line discussion about what he'll do in Washington, he comes off sounding at times like Ron Paul Light...which is ok with me. If he gets too preachy with the God stuff, there'll be Congress and the Supreme Court to put a kibosh on any excesses of gestures he might want to make to his base. And I'd like to see a guy in there who thinks there is SOME Higher Authority waiting to burn him to a crisp in the afterlife instead of acting like they ARE the Higher Authority. Personally I'll probably vote for him. Does he stand a chance in the general election? Probably not. Of course that might depend upon how fractured the democratic party is and how well the economy is doing come election time. Right now I think the Republican Party would have a tough time with ANY candidate. People are ready for change.
Third Party: There's enough dissatisfaction with government to give them a strong showing if they've got the right mix of political ideas. But I don't see one with the right mix of ideas showing up. They are either going to be left leaning, or right leaning, and have not enough of the middle.
We'll see though.
Ragnar Danneskjold
Member
vote for who will nominate the best SC Justices. That is the only thing that actually matters. All real decisions default to the SC.
Nietzsche: Loved your analysis and I agree with most of it. I'll probably vote Huckabee in the primary even if he's run out of money to really compete here in Florida.
Although I was proud of McCain when he was the first candidate to come out in full support of the 2nd Amendment within hours of the VA Tech shootings, I also remember his blatant support for an assault weapons ban and his attack on free speech via cfr. I'm not so sure he'll protect our guns. I'm also not that certain he'll wind up dropping ordnance on Iran.
As far as Mitt & Rudy I can only go on their records. Mitt is on record opposing the NRA and favoring tighter gun controls in his state. That's not too good, no matter how you can manage to spin it! Rudy launched a losing and money wasteful effort to sue the gun manufacterers. He's also pushed some rather draconian gun control proposals. He's a two faced liar. Poor man's version of the current looney NYC mayor: Bloomberg.
I think that I'll vote for either Mitt or McCain based on their pick to be VP. If they're smart they'll pick a Mike Huckabee or a Fred Thompson as the second chair. However, I sorta feel even Fred is getting a bit long in the tooth for politics. Huckabee is young and he's healthy. He's got a great stand up routine for the general election, too.
Although I was proud of McCain when he was the first candidate to come out in full support of the 2nd Amendment within hours of the VA Tech shootings, I also remember his blatant support for an assault weapons ban and his attack on free speech via cfr. I'm not so sure he'll protect our guns. I'm also not that certain he'll wind up dropping ordnance on Iran.
As far as Mitt & Rudy I can only go on their records. Mitt is on record opposing the NRA and favoring tighter gun controls in his state. That's not too good, no matter how you can manage to spin it! Rudy launched a losing and money wasteful effort to sue the gun manufacterers. He's also pushed some rather draconian gun control proposals. He's a two faced liar. Poor man's version of the current looney NYC mayor: Bloomberg.
I think that I'll vote for either Mitt or McCain based on their pick to be VP. If they're smart they'll pick a Mike Huckabee or a Fred Thompson as the second chair. However, I sorta feel even Fred is getting a bit long in the tooth for politics. Huckabee is young and he's healthy. He's got a great stand up routine for the general election, too.
langenc
Member
"I could care less about all the feel good stuff like gay marriage, abortion, flag burning. etc. My Second Amendment rights are the most important rights that I am provided by the US constitution."
This is one of many reasons why we are where we are now.
I dont care what you do to them-just dont do it to me!!
We have all heard about the various type of gun owners that were having their rights trampled and one did not speak up:
I dont care if theyiof they take your pistol-I dont shoot pistols-just dont mess with my shotgun etc etc. Pretty soon no one to help defend the shotgunner.
Thse constitution has been trampled and we dont even know about it..and mostly dont care so long as I get blah, blah, blah.
This is one of many reasons why we are where we are now.
I dont care what you do to them-just dont do it to me!!
We have all heard about the various type of gun owners that were having their rights trampled and one did not speak up:
I dont care if theyiof they take your pistol-I dont shoot pistols-just dont mess with my shotgun etc etc. Pretty soon no one to help defend the shotgunner.
Thse constitution has been trampled and we dont even know about it..and mostly dont care so long as I get blah, blah, blah.
Thernlund
Member
Here is a scan of (what I think is) a canned letter I got from McCain when I wrote about a possible ban.
http://208.106.149.12/letters/john_mccain.pdf
Draw your own conclusions.
I'm divided between McCain and Giuliani. I had said I'd probably pick Giuliani, but McCain is sounding better as I study him more.
Still... damn it Fred.
-T.
http://208.106.149.12/letters/john_mccain.pdf
Draw your own conclusions.
I'm divided between McCain and Giuliani. I had said I'd probably pick Giuliani, but McCain is sounding better as I study him more.
Still... damn it Fred.
-T.
MarshallDodge
Member
I have lived through an election where voters took a stand by electing someone to make a point. The results were Bill Clinton and we had that gun grabber for 8 years and came very close to getting his VP after that. If you want to send a message, write a letter.joemerchant24 said:
It isn't just the office of President that we have to be concerned about. It's your mayor, state representatives, governor, etc. that you really need to worry about. They not only make the local laws but someday they may be running the country.
Wild Deuce
Member
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2007
- Messages
- 223
Picking betweeen what's left for POTUS (excluding Ron Paul) in either party is like trying to decide whether you want to die in a violent slashing attack or would rather have your throat slit nice and quietly while you sleep.
Deanimator
Member
This is often cited as a reason to vote for Giuliani. It's a scam.
If the Democrats keep the Senate, any Republican would be lucky to get Bill Clinton onto the court.
It's not whom the President nominates. It's whom he can get CONFIRMED. With the Democrats in charge, don't expect anyone to the right of Noam Chomsky to get confirmed.
alsaqr
Member
"We need more good Democrats to rise up through the seniority process into leadership positions."
Bingo!!! There are quite a few pro-gun Democrats in the US House.
There have always been. 76 Democrats in the House voted against Clinton's AWB. No one ever ctiticizes those 38 Republicans who voted for the AWB.
Bingo!!! There are quite a few pro-gun Democrats in the US House.
There have always been. 76 Democrats in the House voted against Clinton's AWB. No one ever ctiticizes those 38 Republicans who voted for the AWB.
Ragnar Danneskjold
Member
So now we're entertaining fantasy and myth?
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