"worked" RIA 38 super. Is it worth it?

[MeanBean]

I am fairly new to firearms, and most of my handguns other than than the ones bequeathed to me are the of the plastic variety. But I'm yearning for a 1911. I want one in a caliber that I don't have in a striker fired pistol, so 9mm, 10mm, and .45acp are out. I've been doing some research on a Rock Island Armory .38 super GI. It fits the budget, it's got fairly good reviews, and as a 1911 it can be upgraded with any number of parts as I go.

So I mention this to my buddy/go-to gun guy, he loves the caliber and owns a couple kimbers. He sent me a link to this RIA on GunBroker. It's been heavily modified to alleviate some of the knocks on the stock pistol. Here is the description:

Upgrades consist of trigger job 3.5 lbs, action smoothing, feed ramps polished, Wilson Combat hammer, Wilson stainless grip safety, Wilson stainless checkered mainspring housing, aluminum 3 hole trigger. Black rear sight, Red fiber optic front sight. Pachmayr finger groove wrap around grips. 5" ramped barrel. 1- 10rd stainless mag. Very attractive, accurate and shooter friendly

Now this firearm is now twice the price of a new unmodified RIA .38 super. He thinks that it's worth it and I value his opinion. The money isn't really the issue it's not that far out of budget. But, by nature I'm a value shopper. In this case I'm just out of my knowledge base. I know the sum of the new parts easily make up 1/2 of the difference, so the other half is the smith's time and labor. So I'm asking the forum and those more knowledgeable than myself. Do the upgrades warrant the doubling of the price?

I wasn't sure if I could link it here, so I didn't. It won't be too hard to find if you want to view the asthetics.

 

[mljdeckard]

The mods sound reasonable, similar to what I would do to it. (I put a Wilson Combat Bulletproof extractor in my RIA.)

Here's the problem. This is like buying a car from a amateur mechanic enthusiast. It hasn't been upgraded. It's been MESSED WITH. You don't know if those mods were done by a good smith or a kid watching youtube. It might be great. It could be a disaster. What MY brain asks is, "If he went to such trouble to modify and customize it, and it's set up exactly like he likes it...why is he selling it.?"

If I were going to buy it, I would pay reasonable price for a used RIA 1911. No more. The mods and parts add no value at all.

 

[TonyAngel]

Upgrades consist of trigger job 3.5 lbs, action smoothing, feed ramps polished, Wilson Combat hammer, Wilson stainless grip safety, Wilson stainless checkered mainspring housing, aluminum 3 hole trigger. Black rear sight, Red fiber optic front sight. Pachmayr finger groove wrap around grips. 5" ramped barrel. 1- 10rd stainless mag. Very attractive, accurate and shooter friendly

Man, if you're new to guns, your experiences have likely been with stock out of the box firearms of the plastic variety. This will kind of lull you into the false belief that guns just work. Back in the day when the 1911 was the only "real" gun when it came to autos, everyone wanted one and NEEDED to make it better, because, frankly, they left a lot to be desired in stock form.

Other than the expenditures, the down side was that everyone considered themselves to be a gunsmith. My point is that I've seen some real hatchet jobs. A LOT of $2500 paper weights.

I'd message the seller and ask him/her who did the work.

That list of upgrades sounds impressive, but if you take it apart, it leaves a lot to question. The 3.5lb trigger job. Was this done by a master gunsmith or did they just drop in a hammer and sear set and start cutting the mainspring? Feed ramps polished? Polished with what? A simple and effective polish job can quickly turn into a chamber that will leave you asking why you're getting those bulges in your brass near the base. I've seen this happen when a smithy can't get the gun to feed right. I've actually heard gunsmiths telling customers that it was normal with a super and everyone has a roll sizer. I won't even get into whether all of those other parts were actually fitted or just dropped in. Do they even work like they're supposed to?

Bottom line, these days all you should need for a 1911 (considering all of the bells and whistles they come with now) is a dozen magazines and ammo to fill them with. The two bells and whistles I insist on are an extended ambi safety and a beaver tail grip safety. Everything else is just different flavors of frosting.

No offense to your buddy, the gun guy, but just because he owns a couple of Kimbers, it doesn't make him an expert on 1911's. Shoot, I've been messing with them for over 30 years and I'm far from an expert. If you decide to go for it, beware. I won't buy a heavily modified 1911 unless I know who did the work or I know the owner and I've shot the gun before.

 

[DocRock]

The only "issue" with a bone-stock RIA in 38 Super is the tiny, fixed GI sights. I looked up the pistol in question on GB and it looks nice. He appears to have replaced the rear sight with a better one dove tailed in and put on the fibre optic red front sight. While I'm not a fan of those fibre optic sights, this is a nice upgrade.

I can't tell you whether it's worth the current $700 or the Buy It Now price of $770. Those are good and sensible mods. They appear to have been done well. Better sights makes it a potentially very accurate pistol. You could easily spend that much on mods you make to a new GI. I paid about $750 for a used but fairly stock Kimber Team Match II a little less than a year ago. It's a better gun. I own an RIA 1911 Compact in 45 acp with adjustable sights and I really like it.

 

[Spats McGee]

....Here is the description:

Upgrades consist of trigger job 3.5 lbs, action smoothing, feed ramps polished, Wilson Combat hammer, Wilson stainless grip safety, Wilson stainless checkered mainspring housing, aluminum 3 hole trigger. Black rear sight, Red fiber optic front sight. Pachmayr finger groove wrap around grips. 5" ramped barrel. 1- 10rd stainless mag. Very attractive, accurate and shooter friendly....

Do the upgrades warrant the doubling of the price?

I wasn't sure if I could link it here, so I didn't. It won't be too hard to find if you want to view the asthetics.

I don't know about the value of the upgrades, but if you were a buddy of mine, & asking if you should buy it, I'd tell you no. Here's why:

#1

I am fairly new to firearms,....

and #2

....You don't know if those mods were done by a good smith or a kid watching youtube. It might be great. It could be a disaster.....

In theory, I could do my own mods to a 1911. In reality, I could not do them well. I'd bugger up my 1911, just as sure as the world.

If you really want a 1911 in .38 Super, you can find one. But either buy a stock model, with an eye to having someone do the work, or buy one with work done by a known & reputable smith, and expect an appropriate price tag.

 

[TonyAngel]

I found the gun you're talking about on gunbroker. What can you get one without the mods for?

As for the mods, sights aren't going to make it an accurate pistol. It's only going to be as accurate as you are. There's nothing wrong with the sights on a stock gun, although they are small. They aren't as fancy looking, but they work. They didn't do any special for those sights. The front sight isn't dovetailed. It's either staked or soldered on. Either way, it's likely nothing that you can change yourself. The rear sight, all they did was swap it out. The gun comes with a rear dovetail already cut.

As for the other mods, they're all drop in. That beavertail isn't fitted. It's a universal drop in and they are not as comfortable as a fitted unit. Wilson came up with those to capture the market consisting of those that weren't willing to pay to have a unit fitted, like pistol red dot mounts that don't require machining have become all the rage.

Odds are that all of the other parts were drop in too. Take note that the only mod that would really have been practical wasn't done. An extended safety. Probably because those need to be fitted. Even drop ins often need to be fitted.

Given how cheap those drop in parts are, you could probably actually build what you're seeing there cheaper and get to pick the parts you like. Did you want that beavertail? They had to put that on to make the hammer they used work.

Honestly, I think you'll be buying stuff that they had laying around and needed to get rid of. I mean if I was "upgrading" that pistol, Ida put a full length recoil spring guide in it too.

If you want all of that, look at a Taurus. Those come with all of those parts the RI had added and I believe they have a checkered front strap, dovetail front sight, fitted beavertail, extended safety and full length guide rod plus other stuff. I think you can get those for around $600 or less.

 

[edwardware]

. . It's been heavily modified to alleviate some of the knocks on the stock pistol.

Stop, right there, and walk away.

"Modifications" do not add value unless the gun says "Clarke", "Wilson", etc. You're looking at the equivalent of a Civic with a homebrew port job, oversized injectors, and a crappy alignment; sure the kid who did it might be the next Carroll Shelby, but how much are you willing to bet?

It's not worth more because the previous owner fired the parts cannon at it.

 

[Tallball]

Just pay $500 or whatever and get an RIA that has better sights and a beavertail and so forth. I have several of them like that.

RIA 1911 45acp

• Tallball
• Jun 26, 2019

 

[MeanBean]

Thanks for the replies, these all sound like reasonable answers considering the information I've given. I have texted with the seller, he led me to his website. He runs a range and offers custom 1911 work. He has sold these before on GB before, same upgrades. I believe it is a source of income for him.
That being said, I personally don't know the man. So the statements about the quality of the work are valid. As much as I'd like to think everyone is on the good and moral, it just isn't so.

As for the mods, sights aren't going to make it an accurate pistol. It's only going to be as accurate as you are. There's nothing wrong with the sights on a stock gun, although they are small. They aren't as fancy looking, but they work. They didn't do any special for those sights. The front sight isn't dovetailed. It's either staked or soldered on. Either way, it's likely nothing that you can change yourself. The rear sight, all they did was swap it out. The gun comes with a rear dovetail already cut.

As for the other mods, they're all drop in. That beavertail isn't fitted. It's a universal drop in and they are not as comfortable as a fitted unit. Wilson came up with those to capture the market consisting of those that weren't willing to pay to have a unit fitted, like pistol red dot mounts that don't require machining have become all the rage.

Odds are that all of the other parts were drop in too. Take note that the only mod that would really have been practical wasn't done. An extended safety. Probably because those need to be fitted. Even drop ins often need to be fitted.

Given how cheap those drop in parts are, you could probably actually build what you're seeing there cheaper and get to pick the parts you like. Did you want that beavertail? They had to put that on to make the hammer they used work.

Honestly, I think you'll be buying stuff that they had laying around and needed to get rid of. I mean if I was "upgrading" that pistol, Ida put a full length recoil spring guide in it too.

This is the information I was looking for. I am honestly out of my element on 1911s. I don't make a habit of buying too many things "sight unseen". My thoughts were that if I don't know what it was like out of the box, how can I appreciate "upgrades" even if done correctly. And if the parts are "drop in" universal parts (I understand that few parts are actually "drop in" on 1911s), it does make me wonder about the level of work that went into it.

 

[12Bravo20]

Rock Island Armory only makes the 38 super in their GI model with a choice of blued or nickel finish. It has the typical GI sights that are small yet useful. I don't know why they don't offer 38 Super in any of their other models since they offer them in 9mm. I have 2 full size RIA, a Tactical model in 45 (Ambi safety, beavertail and better sights) and a GI in 9mm. I also have a RIA compact GI in 45. I don't have any problems with the GI sights even with my bifocals.

As far as the pistol in question in the OP. I would want to know who actually did the mods, especially if buying sight unseen.

 

[tarosean]

I can't tell you whether it's worth the current $700 or the Buy It Now price of $770. Those are good and sensible mods.

Well for less than 200 bones more than the 770 Buy it now price he could pick up a Colt Competition in 38 Super off gunbroker w/ beavertail/Fiber Optic,etc. That will retain its value far better than the RIA as their value on the used market is darn near zero.

 

[TonyAngel]

I don't mean to get off on a tangent, but if you're relatively new to firearms, why a .38 Super? Don't get me wrong, it's a cool little round. But there are some things to consider.

The first is ammunition cost. Super is expensive. Even the cheap stuff costs twice as much as 9mm cheap stuff and it's only marginally more powerful than 9mm. You can get hotter ammunition, but it's more costly. If you reload, then you could load inexpensive ammunition and really tap the potential of what the Super is capable of, but I don't know how hot you can get. I don't think the RIA has a fully supported chamber. Aside from ammo, you're also going to need mags.

I can understand wanting something in a caliber that you don't already have, but if you do get a 1911 in a caliber that you already have, then you don't have to stock another caliber....And believe me, shooting a 1911 in 9mm, .45 or 10mm is a totally different experience from shooting one of those calibers out of a plastic gun, in terms of the shooting experience.

Of course, if it's a matter of just wanting one, I'd be the last to criticize someone for buying something just because they wanted it.

If the RIA on GB interests you, perhaps you should be looking at a Taurus. More bells and whistles, but at a good bang for the buck price point. My 1911, although a .45, is an Armscor. It came with a fiber optic front sight, LPA (Bomar type) rear sight sight, fitted beavertial grip safety, extended thumb safety and a full length guide rod. I paid around $600 for it. You can find a better deal.

 

[MeanBean]

I'm the last person to ever talk myself up, so I probably tend to underestimate. I have been shooting pistols regularly for about 3 years, but started shooting/hunting 30+ years ago.. I guess until I bought my first handgun, I was kind of a Fud. After a couple 9mms, I bought a 10mm. Then I decided to try my hand at reloading. 10mm isn't cheap either.
I thoroughly enjoy reloading. In fact, most of my time on this forum in that section. I picked up a .40s&w because the dies/projectiles are the same as 10mm. Once I get going on reloading a caliber, I rarely buy factory ammo. I also like to try different calibers. .38 super can use the same projectiles as 9mm. So it seemed like a natural progression.

I tend to look for "deals" on well reviewed firearms. The RIA .38 super was pretty well reviewed as a solid budget 1911. But I understand it's shortcomings. I've shot some really nice Dan Wesson's and Nighthawks.(all my father-in-law's who despises plastic guns). I know this will in no way compare to those weapons, and frankly I can't afford one of those. I'll never really know what makes them so great, if I've never shot a plain jane budget 1911. The GB RIA would at least be in the same zip code, was my rationale.
I do my due diligence before purchasing any firearm. But 1911's are out of my range of experience, and the internet will only get you so far. So I ask questions of those more knowledgeable than I.

I kindly thank ALL of you who responded. I believe I will pass on this particular .38 super due to many of the reasons you all discussed. I will get one as my next purchase, but perhaps I need to broaden the scope of my options.

 

[CapnMac]

Ok, for my 2¢, growing up (mostly) in Texas, there's always been a spot in my heart for .38super
I've seen tha ammo go from common to rare to common again.
And the RIAs keep catching my eye.

The 1911 is something that is good to start out with just he basics. Get familiar with it, and then decide what tweaks or adjustments would make it better for you. Not necessarily the things somebody else does, because they sell.

Extended safeties look really cool, and have a place in high-speed competitive shooting. But, if you don't shoot that way, they are not really worth the money. Ditto magwells. After forty years, I'm still not decided on full-length guide rods. Some guns seem to run better, some not so much. I mean, some things matter to the shooter. I grew up with arched mainspring housings, and I'll shoot crummy with a flat. Other people are just fine with flat. But, the current "fashion" is to always have flat. To me, that's a $30 fix, so, for sure paying somebody else is not in my cards.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

Besides the possibility that this gun has been bubbad up, I wouldn't recommend a 38 Super to anyone who doesn't load their own ammo. There are different types of brass and a lot of different loads out there that may or may not work well with whatever gun you buy. You need to be willing to take the time to figure out the right combo of brass, extractors, loads, and magazines to make it work for you.

 

[Otto]

In theory, I could do my own mods to a 1911. In reality, I could not do them well. I'd bugger up my 1911, just as sure as the world.

This comment reminded me of a guy that lucked into a mint 1973 Colt Gold Cup at a pawn shop and on the way home stops at Home Depot for a Dremel tool.

 

[bannockburn]

MeanBean

There's also the LSI Citadel 1911s which are very much like the RIA models. Currently iammo.com has a Citadel in .38 Super with Novak style sights, beaver tail grip safety, ambi extended thumb safety, in bright nickel for $682.50. And budsgunshop.com and reddot.com both carry (but are out of stock), a blued version of the same gun for right around $550.

I have worked on a friend's RIA 1911 and for the money they're very well built guns with great overall fit and finish and decent triggers and sights for a reasonable price.

You can also convert a 1911 .38 Super to 9mm. and all you need is a 9mm. barrel assembly and 9mm. magazines. Makes for good practice with less expensive ammo.

 

[bannockburn]

Capnmac

Two older friends of mine got me hooked on the .38 Super many years ago. This was more like going back to the time when Colt use to make their 1911s headspace on the rim of the cartridge, not the case mouth. Most of the time and effort you spent reloading the .38 Super centered around finding the cases that had just the right rim so your accuracy didn't end up being Minute of Pie Plate at 15 feet! And once you found those cases you hung on to them for dear life as they were like gold when you went to the range!

 

[JoeHenry]

I am fairly new to firearms, and most of my handguns other than than the ones bequeathed to me are the of the plastic variety. But I'm yearning for a 1911. I want one in a caliber that I don't have in a striker fired pistol, so 9mm, 10mm, and .45acp are out. I've been doing some research on a Rock Island Armory .38 super GI. It fits the budget, it's got fairly good reviews, and as a 1911 it can be upgraded with any number of parts as I go.

So I mention this to my buddy/go-to gun guy, he loves the caliber and owns a couple kimbers. He sent me a link to this RIA on GunBroker. It's been heavily modified to alleviate some of the knocks on the stock pistol. Here is the description:

Upgrades consist of trigger job 3.5 lbs, action smoothing, feed ramps polished, Wilson Combat hammer, Wilson stainless grip safety, Wilson stainless checkered mainspring housing, aluminum 3 hole trigger. Black rear sight, Red fiber optic front sight. Pachmayr finger groove wrap around grips. 5" ramped barrel. 1- 10rd stainless mag. Very attractive, accurate and shooter friendly

Now this firearm is now twice the price of a new unmodified RIA .38 super. He thinks that it's worth it and I value his opinion. The money isn't really the issue it's not that far out of budget. But, by nature I'm a value shopper. In this case I'm just out of my knowledge base. I know the sum of the new parts easily make up 1/2 of the difference, so the other half is the smith's time and labor. So I'm asking the forum and those more knowledgeable than myself. Do the upgrades warrant the doubling of the price?

I wasn't sure if I could link it here, so I didn't. It won't be too hard to find if you want to view the asthetics.

Not to sound to critical, but a modified RIA is still a RIA and could be worth less than a new one.

 

[MeanBean]

Not to sound to critical, but a modified RIA is still a RIA and could be worth less than a new one.

That was also a reason for asking those more with more experience than I. In the end, it is still a "quality", albiet lower end firearm.

My goal is find a 1911 in .38 super. In the hopes of not turning myself off 1911s by buying a poor quality firearm, I was considering the advice of my friend, who is vastly more knowledgeable. But I couldn't help thinking that a Ford Escort with nice paint, flashy wheels, and a hopped up 4 cylinder is still just a Ford Escort. (I'm kind of a car guy too, so I hope the reference makes sense.) But I'm kind of seeing it as an opportunity to experience the progression of getting the high milage, hand me down wagon at 16 to the day you get to drive the car you wanted all along off the lot.

 

[Spats McGee]

This comment reminded me of a guy that lucked into a mint 1973 Colt Gold Cup at a pawn shop and on the way home stops at Home Depot for a Dremel tool.

The irony (if that's the right word) is just too funny!

.... I couldn't help thinking that a Ford Escort with nice paint, flashy wheels, and a hopped up 4 cylinder is still just a Ford Escort.....

IMHO, the problem isn't the Escort. It's the fact that you don't know anything about who did the work. To paraphrase Patrick McManus, it may have been done by some local fiend with his own three hands.

 

[Tallball]

"You can also convert a 1911 .38 Super to 9mm. and all you need is a 9mm. barrel assembly and 9mm. magazines. Makes for good practice with less expensive ammo."

Is the opposite true? If so, it's easy to find an inexpensive 1911 in 9mm with whatever bells and whistles are wanted.

Then buy a 38 super barrel and magazine, and you would be all set. (Might need a different mainspring too?)

 

[bannockburn]

Tallball

Yes you can convert a 9mm. 1911 to .38 Super but you have to replace or shorten the ejector to accommodate the longer.38 Super case.

 

[brunowbe]

Your first 1911 should always be in .45, regardless of silly self imposed rules of not buying something your plastic striker fired wonder guns are in. Get one in .45 and then differentiate calibers as your 1911s will multiply.