Working Up a Load

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TrapperReady

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Well, I've gotten my Dillon press set up and have made a handful of rounds to test. In particular, I am looking to work up some loads to use for reduced-course highpower matches.

My range is roughly 30 minutes away from the house, and my Dillon isn't exactly portable. So... for load development, what is the best way to go about things?

What I am considering is the following:

- Load 5 rounds at the starting load
- Load 5 rounds at each of the intermediate loads
- Load 5 rounds at the stated maximum
- Make sure all of the rounds loaded are correcly labelled and sorted
- Starting with the lowest powered rounds, fire them individually and inspect for any signs of overpressure.
- Continue working my way through from lowest powered to maximum loads, stopping immediately if there are any signs of overly high pressure.

This should let me know what the "hottest" safe load is without having to truck back and forth to the range too much. I can then go home and load 20 or so rounds at the "safe maximum" and shoot them for accuracy at the next trip to the range.

I can do this (using published recipes) for a couple different types of powders and bullet types and see what is the most accurate in my gun. I figure with 2 or three trips to the range, I should be able to find a decent load.

Please let me know if I am on the right track, or if there is a better (more efficient) way.

Thanks!
 
i used to do it that way, but found it too tedious, especially w/ hard kickers. i use a version of creighton audette's ladder method now, and it seems to work very well. saves me a ton in powder, bullets, and barrel life, too... can spend more barrel life shooting 'real' loads, rather than shooting it away looking for a load.

here's a little detail about my method (i use 'my' loosely - it is a variation of creighton audette's method): http://www.baitshopboyz.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4300&PN=1

i've never tried this w/ handguns, so i wouldn't know how well it works for that, but i'm going to start my 480 development in short order and will have a better idea of how well it works for handguns then.
 
This is my procedure for developing a load.

Select my powder, primer, case and bullet.

Use several manuals to determine the minimum and maximum loads.

Load at least 10 rounds at each powder charge to be tested.

Fast burning powders like Bullseye, W-231, Hp-38, increase in 0.2 grain increments.

Medium burning powders like AA#5, Unique, AA#7, increase in 0.3 grain increments.

Slow burners like H-110 and W-296 increase in 0.5 grain increments.

All of the load data is written on a sheet of paper, each incremental load is assigned a number, this number is written on the primer of each round.

Start with the lowest powder charge round and begin test firing.

I have yet to blow up anything!
 
I do more like stans's method. At least 10rd of each load in case of a bad string, or if I want to go back re-check a particular load after I've run through the entire spectrum of loads. Like cheygriz said - pulling bullets isn't a big deal. Not as near a big of a deal as wondering if you shot a particular string to it's fullest potential.

Also, I like to load the entire spectrum of charges from minimum to maximum in .2 grain increments, all with the same bullet weight/type. Most of the time, I've found that a particular firearm has 2 favorite loads (usually one on the cooler side and one on the hotter side).

Basically, I try to make the bullet work for the gun. Hey, sometimes it works, sometimes not. It makes for interesting reloading though. A reloader can come up with dozens of different bullet types that work in his gun. Tweaking is done through OAL in my case (but then, the charge has to be tweaked - chicken and the egg and all that ya know....).

Sure, it ends up being quite a few loads to test, and sometimes you won't have time to try them all in one sitting, but I've found it takes a lot of the second-guessing out of reloading for a particular bullet/firearm combo.

Heck, there's so many ways to work up a load, no one method is correct or wrong. I use the bullet as a basis, some use the powder. Some use OAL, some use crimp, and we all use every combination of all of it.
 
Trapper,

Your method is ok but it will be very time consuming. I used to do it that way for everything I loaded. Now I just pick a load and if the accuracy is good enough then I just stick with it. It also appears(to me at least) that you are more concerned with power that accuracy. THis is since you said that you will shoot the ones at the "safe max" for accuracy. When I work up loads I go the other way. I do see what the hottest is that is safe but then I fine tune around where the most accurate was. This could be way under max. I used to be a "more power" guy like most reloaders start out but that went away on all but 2 calibers. When working up the loads make sure that you find the charges that are the most accurate not just the max. If you are loading for pistol then there really isnt a reason to go to max. I stick in the middle and just play around there. I also only usually try 2 or 3 powders that I already use. I pick bullets depending on the purpose but usually only try 2 or 3 different ones.
 
I have two loads that are topped out, for defensive purposes and wow factor on the range. Everything else is sort of middle of the road. I find no reason to work up to max when I wan't reliable accurate ammunition for 99.95% of my shooting. I pick a load out that is middle to upper middle and load some a little under, right on and a little over to see if there is a tendency for accuracy or function to improve. Once I get a suitable load I tend to stick with it. I shoot to practice my shooting, not to improve my reloading. I reload to be able to shoot more, not to make the best ammunition on the planet since my ability prevents me from telling good ammo from great ammo. I shoot 99.95% of my handgun ammo offhand, and 90% of my rifle ammo from field positions, so the nth degree of accuracy and power aren't needed. Just good reliable accurate loads are all I need to continue working to improve my shooting ability.
 
Thanks for the replies.

What I'm doing is trying to develop .223 loads that I can use for Highpower rifle competition. Accuracy is far more important than velocity. That being said, I am brand new to this type of reloading (although I've been doing shotshells for several years). In fact, with shotshells, unless making pheasant loads, I almost always pick the recipe lowest velocity published, and if it patterns OK, then I'm happy.

From the reading I've done and looking at some of the "recommended" HP loadings, it seems that many are closer to maximum than to minimum. That's why I thought I would try testing the "safe max" for accuracy. If I don't get something that I quite like, then I know that the only direction I can move is downward... which would be OK. Frankly, the ideal would be to have as light a load as possible which provides good accuracy.

So, as a modifed plan...

- Load up 5 rounds from min to max at whatever chosen interval.
- Shoot them in order, looking for signs of overpressure.
- Once the "safe max" is established, work up some rounds (say 10 of each) at that max, and then a couple of intervals below.
- Shoot those and test for accuracy.
 
Trapper, I like your 'revised a tiny bit by semantics :)' plan now that it is 'splained where I can understand what you want to do. I too have found my most consistent rifle loads somewhere in the mid-upper to upper pressure ranges for the powder/cartridge combo in most cases. Not top but not far from there seems to be where I have had consistent success.
 
Thanks again. I can't tell you why, but this rifle stuff has me a little freaked out. Shotshell reloading just doesn't seem as precise. You pick a recipe, and as long as you have the right amount of powder and a decent crimp, you're good to go.

I feel like I've just about worn out my new calipers getting the press set up and my first ten cartridges loaded.

BTW, HSMITH - If it weren't for semantics, how on earth could we keep all the lawyers employed? :D
 
LOL, Trapper, by the same standard post counts would be meaningless without semantics or prior knowledge.......... LOL, I am not touching that one LOL!!!!!!!!!!


Start with a recommeded load from someone like Steve Smith, if his loads or close don't work ask him for another recipe or who to ask. Steve and I haven't agreed on every topic here but I will guarantee he would help me and anyone else toward the answer. I know he shoots 223 in distance competition and (no offense to anyone else) I would ask him to get past where you are now. I would also guarantee he will give the absolute best adivse he has, since my gut tells me he wants to beat you on the trigger and sights above and beyond anything else. I very much doubt I can help you to the goal you are looking at, but if you get stuck don't hesitate to ask since I will ask and find the answers you need.
 
I have had good luck with the following method. I pick the powder that gives me the best velocity yet comes closest to filling the case.This may not be the best for short barrels but my shortest barrel is 24in.I start middle of the table and work up in .5gr.increments watching my groups.They will get smaller and smaller when they start to open up ,I back off. I also watch for pressure signs on my brass.
 
I too use the "sharpie" method. I use one stripe around the case for the beginning load and add another stripe for each increase.

If I am trying more than one powder I just use a different colour Sharpie for each.
 
DON'T USE MY METHOD

I do overload work ups most every day, just to see what happens.

A) For guns stronger than the brass:
If there is a powder manufacturer load, I start at 1 gr. above the max and work up at one shot at each 1 gr. increment.
The things I look for in the brass:
1) Pierced primer
2) primer falling out
3) .001" or more growth in extractor groove in rimless brass
4) Brass flowing into the extractor in rimmed brass
5) Brass flowing into the feed ramp in semi auto pistols, and making a 'smiley'

B) For guns weaker than the brass:
1) I use Quickload and always stay below cartridge SAAMI rated proof pressures.
2) I use published loads

C) How I tell if a guns is stronger than the brass:
1) Blow some up and see.
a) I have found revolvers easy to blow up if they have thin chamber walls at the outside of the cylinder.
b) I have found CZ52s easy to blow up with the .058" thick chamber bottom
c) Other semi auto pistols have the brass as the weakest point, and this is VERY weak if the feed ramp intrudes too far into the chamber.
d) Antique break top revolvers will stretch the latch
e) Aluminum framed revolvers may deform the frame.
2) I have read and re read Ackley's tests. That '98 Mauser is a great design
3) Stress analysis:
I have found the NEF Handi Rifle 45/70 to be much stronger than the brass with analysis. This is mainly due to the thick steel construction.
4) If the brass fails and there is escaping gas, this may damage or destroy the gun. The gun may be stronger than the brass, but not stronger than the gas the brass is holding. I have destroyed one gun this way and had expensive parts to replace on two others.

DON'T USE MY METHOD
There are many things safer to read about than to do:
1) Handling poisonous snakes
2) Climbing mountains
3) motorcycle racing without a helmet
4) Topping trees
5) Pole vaulting
6) Tending bar
7) Riding with a drunk driver
8) Playing football
9) Nailing on the first course of a steep roof from above
10) Crossing rivers on foot

I have had some bad experiences with all of the above, but I have never been hurt while blowing up guns.
I think it is safe for you to read about what I do, as long as you don't imitate it.
I wish I had skipped the motorcycles and the trees.



--
A society that teaches evolution as fact will breed a generation of atheists that will destroy the society. It is Darwinian.
 
One tip I have is a sharpie perminate marker to write on each round the ammount of powder thats in there. It comes off when you polish in a tumbler and you know which ones are hot.
Click to expand...


Hey i do the exact same thing! then i write on a card and put it in the box (j&j boxes) what powder it is.
 
TrapperReady, you're exactly right. Follow your manual religiously. Pick a powder and bullet(for target shooting use a match grade bullet only). Use decent brass too. Then, beginning with the starting load, load 5 rounds. Weigh each and every charge. Go up by half a grain, loading 5 rounds of each, until you get to the maximum keeping the loads separate. I've always used the cardboard boxes factory ammo comes in, but use whatever works for you.
On the range, fire for group only. No rapid fire at all. Let the barrel cool between loads and change targets. Remember to take a pen with you and record the load on each target. A notebook isn't a bad idea either. When you find the load that is the most accurate, you can go back to the half grain before it and go up by 10ths. That'd be really anal though, unless you're thinking bench rest accuracy.
The most important thing is to relax. Loading rifle ammo isn't rocket science. You're just putting a loaded round together. No loading when you're tired, PO'd, distracted in any way, hungry, etc. It takes concentration to develope a load. You sound like you really do have a handle on it and you just needed a bit of encouragement and guidance.
If you want you can e-mail me at [email protected].
 

CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The High Road, nor the staff of THR assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.

Here is my test data for my 45/70 Handi rifle with 405 gr hard cast and Unique:

45/70 work up with; 405 gr cast with lube bands, CCI 200 primers, Win brass, old Unique [dirty] powder, chamber well lubricated between
firings with CLP for max bolt thrust.

Quickload calculation of pressure and velocity with 405 gr, Unique

shot 0) 15 gr, 24,700 psi, 1271 fps, no shot fired, listed for Quickload reference point only
shot 1) 18 gr, 33,217psi, 1403 fps, primer looks fine.
shot 2) 20 gr, 39,435 psi, 1485 fps, primer is fine
shot 3) 22 gr, 46,133 psi, 1563 fps, primer looks flat.
shot 4) 24 gr, 53,334 psi, 1637 fps, primer is flat.
shot 5) 26 gr, 61,067 psi, 1709 fps, primer is top hat and flowing,
action popped open and case ejected on firing
shot 6) 28 gr, 69,366 psi, 1778 fps, primer is top hat and flowing, case head expansion .001", action popped open and case ejected on firing
shot 7) 30 gr, 78275 psi, 1846 fsp, case head expansion .0015" action popped open and case ejected on firing, some leading in the muzzle.
shot 8) 32 gr, 87,841 psi, 1911 fps, case head expansion .0025", case head separating where case head is flowing into the extractor, action popped open, some leading in the muzzle, and case ejected on firing, primer is spreading out .010"

There was no change in headspace, but I had to stop the work up because of case head separation where the case head flowed into the extractor.

Reference loads:

1) "Loads for the 45/70" from the H.P.White laboratory via "American
Rifleman" 1950~1968 via "NRA Handloader's Guide" 1969 says:
405 gr Rem S.P., 17.5 gr Unique, 1286 fps, 25,240 pounds pressure, for 1886 Win

2) "Lyman's 47th" 1992 says:
400 gr cast, 16.5 gr Unique, 1286 fps, 27,000 cup, for 1886 Win

3) "Lyman's 47th" 1992 says:
385 cast gr cast, 17.5 gr Unique, 1411 fps, 38,500 cup, for Ruger #1

Here is a picture of what the primers looked like from right to left.
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This is all good info for me. I just started reloading about 3 months ago. I was in the middle of reloading some rounds for my XP-100 in 22-250 when I checked out this thread. Varget wasn't getting me the results I wanted(going for accuracy 100 and 300 yards). I'm working with H380 now and was glad to hear how you guy's do your reloading. I just finished working up three different loads with H380. 37 grain, 39 grain and the max 41 grain. 41 grain don't leave much room for the 55 grain bullet. The bullets are sitting right on top of that 41 grain. Winchester cases and primers. Anybody ever load a case plum full of powder and stick a bullet on top of it before? :what:
 
Anybody ever load a case plum full of powder and stick a bullet on top of it before?
Click to expand...

Yup, I know a guy that did just that. He would scoop the case FULL of IMR4350 and seat a 130 grain Sierra for his 270 Winchester loads. To make it worse he was shooting a Remington pump rifle. He shot several hundred of them, being told constantly it was stupid and dangerous. His day finally came, no serious injuries but he still has pieces of that rifle embedded in his face and the side of his head. That was 15 years ago or so.

Had he been doing this with another powder that was a little faster he would have blown himself up a lot sooner, possibly on the first shot. If he had used a powder that was a little slower he probably would still be doing it today. It ALL depends on the powder used.
 
Update. 37 gr. of powder wasn't to bad. 39 gr. were spreading out and 41 gr. of powder 6 shots of 15 made paper. I just happen to have three 31.5 gr. loads made up. All three shots were almost covered by a quarter in the bullseye. I think me and my 14 1/2 inch barrel are on to something. :)
 
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