Would this bother you?

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by JONWILL, Dec 8, 2019.

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    JONWILL Member

    Apr 21, 2017
    I am pretty upset with a local Gunshop
    They have gotten in a bunch of Ruger P series evidence room guns. I really like them and they are cheap. I am talking $150 each cheap
    Well I have a weekly budget, depending on any overtime I work.

    I have been going in every Friday for a month and getting a different model
    This last Friday I was picking up a kind of rare P93. Well the salesman, who I helped me buy several of them kept asking me if I knew what a straw purchase was. Not once but 3 times
    Yes I know what a straw purchase is. Buying a gun for someone else.

    I am a collector of different types of guns.
    I am kind of pissed. It seems like he is insinuating that I am an illegal gun dealer. I have been thinking of going to the manager and telling him what happened. Does that sound reasonable or am I over reacting?
    Heir Kommt Die Sonne likes this.
  2. MEHavey

    MEHavey Member

    Jul 27, 2010
    Under the conditions/circumstances described -- with no further facts -- the man is being both reasonable & responsible.
    If I were the manager, I would respond similarly.
  3. gunlaw

    gunlaw Member

    May 16, 2009
    The dealer was being cautious. A person who has to comply with government regulations and federal laws has to be careful.
  4. Pelo801

    Pelo801 Member

    Mar 30, 2014
    He jumped to a conclusion. But under the circumstances you described, it wasn't much of a leap. I think I would have asked him if that's what he was getting at, but also trying not to be confrontational.
  5. doubleh

    doubleh Member

    Feb 14, 2007
    NM-south of I-40
    I can understand the salesman's concern with you buying one a week. I would have just explained what I was doing to him and put his mind at rest. No need to be pissed. If they had refused the sale because of their suspicions then it would be time to become upset. Simple dialogue between people goes a long way and it's very easy to do. Try it sometime. It will prevent stress.
    Theohazard, drobs, bk42261 and 8 others like this.
  6. BSA1

    BSA1 Member

    Apr 20, 2011
    West of the Big Muddy, East of the Rockies and Nor
    I would of answered him by asking him was he was asking.

    When you go in next Friday to buy another one I simply would have another person sell it to me since the first person is uncomfortable selling guns to me.
    DustyGmt likes this.
  7. alfsauve

    alfsauve Member

    Jan 30, 2008
    N. GA
    Overly sensitive. They're under pressure to check and double check this.

    JONWILL Member

    Apr 21, 2017
    You are probably right. I do remember now that they got an audit awhile back from the ATF. I guess there were a lot of guns from their store turning up at drug houses and other crime scenes in New York and other places in the Northeast
    fastbolt and ApacheCoTodd like this.
  9. Waveski

    Waveski Member

    Jan 28, 2014
    43 north
    The fact that the salesperson asked that question is not unreasonable , but if I were in the position of being that customer (OP) and the question was repeated 2-3 times ,
    I would ask that staffer why he is persisting in such a manner.
    The repetition of the question would suggest to me that my answer to the first inquiry was not believed ; that is something I would be compelled to address , in a civil tone.
    bannockburn likes this.
  10. bannockburn

    bannockburn Member

    Apr 24, 2007

    I think the salesman was just being careful under the circumstances. If I were the salesman I would have run this past the owner first just to see what he thought about it rather than ask the customer 3 times if they knew what a straw man purchase was. Maybe too if you explained to them what you were doing (buying a gun every week), that might go a long way in clearing up any questions they could have about your purchases.
    GBExpat likes this.
  11. BlankRow

    BlankRow Member

    Sep 21, 2019
    ^^ Exactly, they do not want any attention from the ATF, and I'm sure they do not want to supply firearms to criminals in general. The behavior you described, with no additional information, could easily be interpreted negatively.

    I would explain what I am doing, and ask if there is anything I can do to put their mind at ease. One thing to keep in mind in these situations is that they have the option to deny a sale if they feel uncomfortable with the circumstances surrounding it.

    To me the oddity in your story is that they seemed to imply that they suspect you are conducting straw purchases, but still sold you a firearm. I would expect most places to refuse the sale if there is any indication of impropriety.
  12. buck460XVR

    buck460XVR Member

    Feb 6, 2007
    I gotta agree. As a responsible gunowner why would you be upset with this? He asked a reasonable question. He could have refused the sale had he had any more serious concerns just as easily. Odds are you exhibited some action that caused him to suspect you. I would think telling him you were a gun collector plus what you told us about your budget, he would have dismissed any concerns he had.

    Odds are you had to answer the question again on the 4473.
    ApacheCoTodd likes this.
  13. GRIZ22

    GRIZ22 Member

    Nov 4, 2006
    It wouldn't bother me. They'd get to know me at that shop with those prices.
  14. Dibbs

    Dibbs Member

    Sep 3, 2018
    If he asked me, point blank, three times, all at once, in one specific visit "Is this a straw purchase ? Is this a straw purchase ? Is this a straw purchase ?" in a hounding, sanctimonious manner, then yes, I would be a little irritated, But I doubt this is what happened.

    This is an issue gun shops have to deal with, and you are purchasing, at least what must seem to them, a lot of similar guns.

    Sure, some of us appreciate the Ruger P-series, and they are fine pistols. But consider how it looks, from the other side of the counter. Maybe if you took a picture of the P-series collection, and showed it to the salesman, he would be more understanding.
    Heir Kommt Die Sonne likes this.
  15. Pat Riot
    • Contributing Member

    Pat Riot Contributing Member

    May 21, 2015
    The clerk has a lack of tact but I believe he is doing his due diligence.
  16. edwardware

    edwardware Member

    Feb 23, 2010
    Look at this this way: You, as a loyal and enthusiastic customer, might be worth $1000/yr. You, as a Straw Purchaser, could cost every employee their jobs, and the owner/FFL their entire livelihood and business investment, if you make the news and the ATF brings the Jack Boot down on them.

    Recognize that the sales guy knows nothing about you except that you buy cheap handguns, often. Go back, have a friendly chat, tell him you understand why he's suspicious, and explain that you like to spend your allowance on cheap handguns. You'll have made a friend!
    Theohazard, drobs, entropy and 2 others like this.
  17. ATLDave

    ATLDave Member

    Aug 30, 2011
    Show up to a bank with a duffle bag of cash 3 times in 2 weeks without any explanation, you'll be asked similar questions. Show up a pain management clinic asking for opioids every other day and you'll be asked similar questions. Try to book a one-way airline ticket with cash and a disregard for time of departure or which of 4 big cities you go to and you'll be asked similar questions.

    There is some perfectly legal behavior that looks highly suspicious and is, very frequently, an actual indicator of criminal intent or actions. It's not fair to get annoyed at the person whose suspicion is aroused and asks some basic questions.
  18. orionengnr

    orionengnr Member

    Jan 3, 2005
    Once, no problem.
    Three times during one transaction?
    Yeah, that might ruffle my feathers a bit, too...
  19. Sovblocgunfan

    Sovblocgunfan Member

    Jan 24, 2014
    Understanding that my purchases are not illegal, I wouldn’t care that he asked the question. My answer to the question would be, “yep, sure do. I’ll take this one here.”
    Mn Fats, Jeb Stuart and Demi-human like this.
  20. fireside44

    fireside44 Member

    Sep 22, 2009
    "Mind your own business and if you're suggesting I'm straw purchasing why are you allowing me in the store?" I dislike insinuations and would prefer a straightforward question or outright accusation." Don't pass the heat on the customer because feds are breathing down your neck. Just do YOUR job I.e 4473 son. And what are you so concerned about straw purchases for, Mr gun counter man, the government makes them all the time with the blessing of the authorities. The atf doesn't require you ask everyone three times just fill out the form the right way.

    If he could handle my irritated tone we could do business if not I'd tell him I guess I'll take my straw purchase money elsewhere. Guilty until proven innocent and all that. I've never had anything but great experiences in gun shops. I don't like being treated like a crimmie.
  21. larryh1108

    larryh1108 Member

    Aug 29, 2008
    It may also look like, to them, that you are purposely avoiding the multiple handgun purchase law for some nefarious reason.
    Once a week, every week, would raise my suspicious flag too. Like others have said, talk to the manager and let him know what you are doing and why.
    (Cheap guns you like on payday). I bet they may start putting aside some nicer ones for a good customer.
  22. ApacheCoTodd

    ApacheCoTodd Member

    Jun 30, 2011
    Bother me? Nope.
    Over reacting? A tad.

    Wouldn't bother me a bit within the situation described in the OP.

    Just a fella looking out for himself and in fact, his customers.

    I had a gal once thank me profusely for explaining *straw purchases* and the potential complications. She had been duped by a boyfriend into a loose interpretation of *gift purchases*.

    So, in short, once again.... Nope. Probably you should actually politely thank him letting him know you are well aware for eh term, application and penalties.

  23. fireside44

    fireside44 Member

    Sep 22, 2009
    Yeah, I'd get suspicious that the dude might be spending a little more of his weekly payday on guns and ammo than he ought. Might have to pry further and ask him if he's a high road member. Veeeeerrrry suspicious. Never seen a hardened gun lover guy buy one a week. Might need to get his wife, girlfriend, or mom involved to find out if they really are aware and red flag that ol boy.
    Sovblocgunfan likes this.
  24. Demi-human

    Demi-human Member

    Dec 8, 2016
    The Haymarsh, MI
    I always smile at the little lectures.

    I usually don’t buy alone. Firearms are about the most expensive thing I pay cash for.
    My friend likes to go to the shop with me to look around. He does not care to “dress up for town”. I don’t wear muddy field boots into the store. (And yes, I am pretty.:D)

    When they eye him and I up they come to a common conclusion.;) I usually just mention he has more gun than the store does, and wouldn’t buy the junk I do.
    “He’s got a Wilson EDC X9 in his chest pocket...":cool:


    And the rest of the transaction goes smoothly.

    Like clock work, he walks over just before I box it to go. Giving it a cursory once over, he’ll always sneer a “nope”, puts it in the box and says that my wife is gonna be mad at all this junk, and folds it under his arm until we leave. Then we look at his revolvers.

    I like having an armed guard and it always makes me laugh at the types that judge, maybe rightly so;), just by our appearance.
    The local guy knows the routine, but we always have a good laugh in the city. We are never sore and he will never shave, so...

    I wouldn’t be too sore at questioning, but refusal might ruffle me some, as our charade is not far from the truth, just he isn’t armed, I am.

    The “appearance” of your buying pattern says the same. Just like our guy here, get to know him a little.:thumbup:
  25. bdickens

    bdickens Member

    May 1, 2008
    Hockley , TX
    I'm gonna go against the grain here.

    I think the clerk displayed a monumental lack of tact & discretion. I perfectly well understand the concern about straw purchases and all, but there are a whole lot of better ways to bring it up.

    In my opinion, he should have brought any concern up to his manager. And I think you should.

    But then, the shop's previous audit and the circumstances surrounding it pretty much demonstrates to me poor management in the first place.
    fireside44 likes this.
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