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The fired case is a pretty good image of the chamber, though not as good as cerrosafe would be. Thing is, you don't have to get an answer down to the last .0001", you just need an answer good enough to distinguish one chambering from another.

You know that a .32 bullet is the right size, and you know that the cases look like 30-30, but with a wider mouth.

I say load up some 32 Special light loads, and see how it shoots.
Yup
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck,........... You have a Special duck. Case looks correct, bore diameter is correct, case mouth dimensions are correct. Remember brass is springy and thickness varies so .001 +/- is common. :thumbup:
 
Are we talking about 35 Whelen ? Pretty sure this gun hasn't had 2 boxes of ammo thru it. Looks like a safe dweller for the most part. I'll be back on the Range Wednesday. I'll fire another 30-30 and measure the case mouth. That sounds like the easiest way to start. I'll be back with an update. Thanx, for all the help so far.

No, .35Whelan is IIRC a .30-06 length case necked up to take a .358" bullet. The case is too long for the '94's .30-30 length action.

If we were talking about Winchester's Model of 1895, I've seen them in .30-06, so the .35Whelan would be a possibility there.
 
Lemaymiami, I have a lot of the same stories, but they end in "How are we still alive after being that stupid !" I was concerned that Keith may have nailed it with a 30-30 chamber but a .32 bore. Felt better after checking brass dimensions. Anyway, GUNSHOW this weekend. I'll see if I can find 32 special brass just to see if it will chamber. I'll buy a box and let you know what happens. Thanx for your sage advice LeMayMiami, but I'm gonna go for it. Pretty sure this one's a duck ! I have gotten a little more careful in my years of seeing accidents. Now speaking of careful, this may be hard to believe.............................BUT, it looks like perhaps the exact (Kind of Exact) same thing has happened to me TWICE. Anyone want to field this one ? We're NOT finished with the trapper delima till I have actually fired a 32 Special and reported of course, but since I was slugging barrels and had the tools handy, I decided to slug another recent acquisition. A 45-70 Springfield Trap Door Carbine. Got it cheap, Needed work, I did the work, noticed the chamber looked odd. 45-70 brass did not fit well, BUT 50-70 brass fit PERFECTLY ! So, I think problem solved, this is a changed barrel. Someone put an OLD barrel on a newer 45-70 and now I have a 50-70 CARBINE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ROCK ON !!!!!!!!!! Been wanting one for YEARS ! I'm flippin out happy. Then I notice that the muzzle doesn't quite look 50 cal. Lemaymiami, you would have been proud of my safety precautions. I always double check really old guns before firing. So tonight I slugged the barrel to see what gives. It's definitely NOT a 50 Cal. It's not even a 45 cal ! The 50-70 brass fits well, but does not eject, which may mean it is still the wrong brass, or maybe the ejector is defective. I've never seen a trapdoor in any other caliber than a 45 or a 50. After looking at the barrel close, I see that it is obviously a changed barrel. It has an engraved ring around the barrel close to the breech behind the sight. Never seen this on a Springfield, My question is, does anybody know enough about old time BP cartridges to tell me if perhaps this is an old Sharps, or Winchester barrel with a bottle neck cartridge ? Did they even have the same threads ? That's the only explanation I can see right now. If it was a 45-70 that had been rechambered to a 50 but never got around to boring it, the bore would still have measured .458 or so yes ? This one is about .430................................now these had a 3 groove barrel, some 2 groove, so maybe my miracle measuring caliper thingy is not lining up on the grooves in the slug just right. I will of course not fire this one till I have done a chamber cast. But I was hoping there's a BP guy (Or girl) out there that might shed some light on this ? I'll be back in a few days to tell about the Trapper. Hope it's a tac driver. Thanx for all the help so far. I'll get pictures next week if it'll help ?
 
That trapdoor would scare the S out of me as an unknown due to the age and relative weakness of the basic action, much less not knowing what someone did to it. If I did feel confident on the caliber and chamber, I'd be looking for a good stump to lag bolt a bench vise onto before I even considered firing it.
 
Lemaymiami, I have a lot of the same stories, but they end in "How are we still alive after being that stupid !" I was concerned that Keith may have nailed it with a 30-30 chamber but a .32 bore. Felt better after checking brass dimensions. Anyway, GUNSHOW this weekend. I'll see if I can find 32 special brass just to see if it will chamber. I'll buy a box and let you know what happens. Thanx for your sage advice LeMayMiami, but I'm gonna go for it. Pretty sure this one's a duck ! I have gotten a little more careful in my years of seeing accidents. Now speaking of careful, this may be hard to believe.............................BUT, it looks like perhaps the exact (Kind of Exact) same thing has happened to me TWICE. Anyone want to field this one ? We're NOT finished with the trapper delima till I have actually fired a 32 Special and reported of course, but since I was slugging barrels and had the tools handy, I decided to slug another recent acquisition. A 45-70 Springfield Trap Door Carbine. Got it cheap, Needed work, I did the work, noticed the chamber looked odd. 45-70 brass did not fit well, BUT 50-70 brass fit PERFECTLY ! So, I think problem solved, this is a changed barrel. Someone put an OLD barrel on a newer 45-70 and now I have a 50-70 CARBINE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ROCK ON !!!!!!!!!! Been wanting one for YEARS ! I'm flippin out happy. Then I notice that the muzzle doesn't quite look 50 cal. Lemaymiami, you would have been proud of my safety precautions. I always double check really old guns before firing. So tonight I slugged the barrel to see what gives. It's definitely NOT a 50 Cal. It's not even a 45 cal ! The 50-70 brass fits well, but does not eject, which may mean it is still the wrong brass, or maybe the ejector is defective. I've never seen a trapdoor in any other caliber than a 45 or a 50. After looking at the barrel close, I see that it is obviously a changed barrel. It has an engraved ring around the barrel close to the breech behind the sight. Never seen this on a Springfield, My question is, does anybody know enough about old time BP cartridges to tell me if perhaps this is an old Sharps, or Winchester barrel with a bottle neck cartridge ? Did they even have the same threads ? That's the only explanation I can see right now. If it was a 45-70 that had been rechambered to a 50 but never got around to boring it, the bore would still have measured .458 or so yes ? This one is about .430................................now these had a 3 groove barrel, some 2 groove, so maybe my miracle measuring caliper thingy is not lining up on the grooves in the slug just right. I will of course not fire this one till I have done a chamber cast. But I was hoping there's a BP guy (Or girl) out there that might shed some light on this ? I'll be back in a few days to tell about the Trapper. Hope it's a tac driver. Thanx for all the help so far. I'll get pictures next week if it'll help ?

paragraphs please.
 
If that's the case, I might bet on it being an original Remington Rolling Block barrel. Was the .43 Spanish a bottleneck?

... Until some of the made under license Rolling Blocks from Spain, were rechambered for .43 Reformato that is pretty much straight-wall. At the top of the barrel near the breech, there will be an "R" stamped to indicate the conversion. I had one of these rifles in the original caliber, and man what it must have gone through. Some were used during the Spanish American war, and were thought to have 'poison bullets', because the green coloration (verdigris) the brass jacketed bullets developed.

Here are the rounds with the original .43 Spanish, and my rifle when I had it, made in 1876:

81977d1517774936-43-spanish-tumbling-3dae4787-114d-44c4-a4d0-d02c1526847c.jpg

DSC_7831.JPG

DSC_7830.JPG

DSC_7832.JPG

DSC_7833.JPG
 
Thats nice. Do you shoot it? I'm about 70 miles from Ilion where the Remington factory is. Just drove by it on Wednesday. (They are hiring for Production work if interested ). One of the sites I go to for work is right next to the factory. I have quite a few Remingtons but still want one of the old rolling blocks just for fun.
 
This reminds me of Mike Venturino and Hank Williams Jr. at SHOT... went to the Remington booth to talk them into bringing back the Rolling Block. Big deal executive gave 'em a dumb look and said "what's a Rolling Block?" Mike Venturino said it didn't make much sense that the management didn't know about one of the most important rifles in Remington's history. I got to see a new Rolling Block a while later... nice rifle in .45-70, but cost an arm and a leg.
 
Scooter, thanx for the specs on the 43 Spanish. Here I go with the measuring thingy again ! This one I think is gonna take a bit longer to solve than the Trapper. I've been wanting to get cerrosafe and learn to cast chambers anyway. I don't see an "R" on the barrel, but there are 2 rings around the barrel about 1/8 inch apart near the breech. Would that tell anyone anything ? I checked the muzzle measurements of another 45-70 tonight. getting pretty much the same measurements as the one in question. It appears to have a 3 groove barrel so there seems to be no solid place to measure EXACT inside diameter. After messing around with it some, the widest dimension I could get seemed to be .450 on BOTH rifles. Not unheard of on an actual 45-70. Now I'm even more confused. Think I'm resolved to do a chamber cast. I'll get back after this weekend with the report on the Trapper ! Thanx for all the help so far ya'll !
 
Thats nice. Do you shoot it? I'm about 70 miles from Ilion where the Remington factory is. Just drove by it on Wednesday. (They are hiring for Production work if interested ). One of the sites I go to for work is right next to the factory. I have quite a few Remingtons but still want one of the old rolling blocks just for fun.

Thank you. I never did... I wanted to start reloading for it, and my other 'ancients' (8mm Kropatschek, and Dutch Beaumont), but never did, so the RB did above the fireplace mantle duty. Good luck in your search.

Hiring at Remington - If I hadn't early retired 6 years ago, I might :). Interesting fact about this Spanish made and Danish spec RB's, is they both have a firing pin retracting mechanisms on the block. It can be seen more clearly here, on my rifle.

DSC_9788.JPG
 
It is my opinion that you have a 32 Special barrel that was incorrectly marked at the factory. Based on what I saw in 1980's factories, production flows were awful and parts were mis placed, may have been put into the reject pile, and somehow "resurrected" back into the production. Also, you must consider the cynicism of factory managers. Maybe they had a bunch of barrels that were mis marked, and decided to put them on rifles, to let the customer figure it out. This happens all the time, and even now, factories ship defective equipment, knowing it is defective, but they make more money selling the defective equipment, than scrapping it. The logic is, scrapping all the defectives is a guaranteed 100% monetary loss, but shipping it is not. Because never are 100% of the defectives are returned for repair or warranty. And if the customer is upset, well, that's tomorrow's problem. And here you are, thirty years later, and they were proven right. They got their profit, but the current incarnation of Winchester tells you "that's not our problem". Might as well rage against the moon for what they did to you, but, its your problem now.

I recommend fire forming lubricated 30-30 cases to your chamber. This is something I did with new 30-30 cases in this 30-30 Marlin

Kcc88o6.png


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Shot well

42Bz34f.jpg

Even factory was not bad when greased.

1elkukF.jpg

The primary reason was, the chamber is huge. If I had not greased the rounds and fired them greased, with this much shoulder movement, it is likely I would have had case head separations, if not on the first firing, then not for long. It takes about the same amount of grease to perfectly fireform a case to the chamber, as it does, to size the case.


4mqeFK7.jpg

I sort of over did it with these 35 Whelen rounds. I dipped these cases in a hair gel, which is mostly vasoline and pleasant smelling perfumes. These are 30-06 cases necked up to 35 Whelen. Too much grease can cause shoulder dents, just like it does in a sizing die. So, keep the layer thin.

oDvJYKT.jpg

bCpDrWy.jpg


I also recommend, after necking up your cases, and before priming, you anneal the necks. I had a lot of case neck splits before I learned to anneal the case necks. I use a torch, in the inky shadows of the garage, figure out how much time it takes to get a red color, and stay under that. I have over annealed cases to the point they won't hold a bullet. So, keep the case neck just under red, twirl the case in your fingers in the torch flame, and count as you are doing that. This is actual a good safety mechanism, by the time you have over annealed the case, your fingers start to burn! Twirl the case, counting to three, for example, and drop the case in a pan of water. The quick quench does nothing other than preventing the hot case from melting the carpet or charring anything.
 
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I had thought of resizing, but I'm thinking with all the ammo I have, and with my slightly diminished memory ! I might be better to get actual 32 Special cases. May save me from heart ach in the future. Not gonna get to the gunshow to buy ammo this weekend as hoped so I think I'll order some stuff online and load it up when it comes in. Can't wait to shoot it. Thanx for all the info, just in case I go that route, will the same system that you just explained work for resizinf 30-30 to 375 Winchester ?
Thanx
 
I had thought of resizing, but I'm thinking with all the ammo I have, and with my slightly diminished memory ! I might be better to get actual 32 Special cases. May save me from heart ach in the future. Not gonna get to the gunshow to buy ammo this weekend as hoped so I think I'll order some stuff online and load it up when it comes in. Can't wait to shoot it. Thanx for all the info, just in case I go that route, will the same system that you just explained work for resizinf 30-30 to 375 Winchester ?
Thanx

As long as the case neck does not split when sizing up! Sizing up, or down, is hard on case necks, so I have come to the conclusion that annealing is necessary. And then, I simply lube the case to fireform. I end up with a dimensionally perfect, stress free case. Each and every time.
 
One way to tell if it truly is a mismarked .32 Special barrel is to measure the twist rate. This is easy to do and requires no special tools or skills. Most .30-30s had a 1:12” twist, while the .32 Specials had a 1:16” twist rate.


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