COLT 2ND MODEL DRAGOON, plenty good accurate for deer hunting??

[ROA]

Hello all, I know this must sound like a silly question, but I have not shot this gun yet. I just ordered a colt 2nd model dragoon (original) black box edition, and I was plannin to carry it with my 1860 Army (original) during my fall deer muzzleloader season.

I have never shot either yet, haven't had the time to get to the range, but I wanted to know if anyone has had experience with these for actual hunting, and whether or not the dragoon is accurate or not, same for the 1860 army. I think the dragoon should be able to carry a lot more powder, haven't seen one in person yet...

Also, anyone know where to get a good holster for the dragoon? Lookin for something strong sided. I know some one broke down the steps of cleanin these colts, and it sounds kind of really hairy!! Is there another easier way? I love cleaning my guns, but I don't have the experiance to take the whole thing apart at this point. MY roa's are so easy to clean, its almost unfair...

Thanks in advance guys!!!

 

[mike101]

"I think the dragoon should be able to carry a lot more powder, haven't seen one in person yet..."

Well, get ready, because they're huge. I don't hunt, but the subject has been brought up before. You should be able to stuff nearly 50 grains of powder into the Dragoon, though that probably isn't necessary. It should work just fine for deer.

The Colts are designed to hit point of aim at about 100 yards, so at shorter distances, it will probably shoot high.

Need a holster?
http://www.texasjacks.com/GunLeather/PercussionHlstrs.htm
The one in the middle is for a Dragoon, and on the left, for a
'60 and '51 Navy.

Congatulations on both of your Colts. Where did you get them?

 

[BigG]

If you seriously plan to hunt with it. Learn where it shoots. Most Colt types I've used shoot very high at any reasonable pistol distance.

 

[DMZ]

Your Dragoon when loaded up full (40gr fffg under a 141gr RB @820fps), should approximate, ballistically, a .38 Spl load (148gr LWC @810fps).

Given the crude sights and weight (nearly 6lbs fully loaded), I would not think that a Dragoon would be a primary firearm for deer, even if you were hunting Sitka or Pacific black tails. If the range was <15 yards you would have the best chance for a accurate and fatal shot, but beyond that.....?

 

[Omnivore]

Check your state hunting rules. In Idaho, you may carry a BP handgun during muzzleloader season, but you may not use it for hunting, or to dispatch wounded game. I don't understand it or agree with it, but there it is.

By contrast, you may use a .40 S&W pistol during modern firearm season, IIRC and that's considerably less powerful than your massive and potent Dragoon...

 

[Smokingboomstick]

I would bring a rifle, and use the revolver as a backup gun.

 

[ROA]

Dragoon...

Thanks Mike101, I got the 1860 army at Natchez's (3rd Generation), and I got the 2nd model dragoon (2nd generation) off of auction arms. I paid a pretty penny for both, but I figured, if I was going to get them, might as well get the original and keep them for life, or until I can pass them to my son when he is old enough.. I will use them as much as I can. As for a main arm, I don't know if I would, but its good to know I can if I had to.. That holster looks mighty sweet, I will get that for sure, thanks.

As for the load, 50 grains?? WOW!! I load my ROA full to 40, and it gives a pretty good kick, enough to almost fly out of my hands, when they are sweaty... That should be good enough. I'm kind of worried about accuracy though, maybe I should file down the front sight little by little? I really don't know, I guess I have to experiment until I find the perfect load/ball combo, and see how it shoots. I would love to drop a deer with that thing, though. I know that with my black powder revolvers (ROA) with round ball pack enough knockdown power to drop a deer on the spot, if hit in the shoulder, done it many times.. Just being skeptical, I guess...

What about the 1860 army? Anybody hunt with this??? I would imagine during the time period, it was used extensively to provide table fare for America...

ROA

 

[mike101]

"maybe I should file down the front sight little by little? I really don't know, "

If you file the front sight down, it's going to shoot even higher. If anything, you would need a taller front sight. Most people don't bother. I've seen some target pictures posted by some of the guys here, and they get some pretty good groups. Try it out. Once you get accustomed to it, you probably won't want to mess with the sight.

Enjoy.

 

[arcticap]

Also, anyone know where to get a good holster for the dragoon?

Dixiegun has one with good reviews:

http://www.dixiegunworks.com/produc...=4126&osCsid=2fe3828e53e9a9d5f8b1825dc18300b8

 

[O.S.O.K.]

Couple of things

First, the Dragoon will hold 50 grains of Pyrodex P easily with a lubed felt wad over it and a round ball (.454"). That will generate 1150-1200 fps or so and 400+ foot pounds of energy. But really, the foot pounds isn't the real indicator of the round's potential to take down a white tail deer.

The Dragoon will also handle 200 grain conicals easily with 45 grains and lubed felt wad (I like the lubed felt wad). That will give close to the same velocity - maybe 1100 fps or so and 500+ foot pounds of energy - each pistol is different.

My personal choice for hunting would be the conical (Buffalo makes a "ballette" too - 180 grains I think). Lee makes moulds for the 200 grain conicals but you'd have to cast your own - which I recommend but it sounds like you aren't at that stage yet? My Uberti 3rd Model Dragoon likes the Lee 200 grain conical with 45 grains of powder.

Work-up the most accurate powder charge with your choice of projectiles and then shoot at varying distances (25, 50 and 75 yards) to see where the rounds go (point of impact) in relation to your point of aim.

Once you have that figured out, get some 8" pie plates for targets and use them for practice - the furthest distance that you can keep a cylinder full of rounds on (from off-hand or your choice of hunting/field position) is your maximum hunting range. Most guys are going to be 50 yards or less. Many really shouldn't shoot beyond 25.

This is good for heart/lung shots only - and I recommend that the bullet be placed through the ribs, avoiding the shoulder which may very well prevent the bullet from penetrating through to the heart. The bullet kills the deer by punching a hole through these organs which bleeds the animal out - no "shock" like high velocity expanding centefire rifles. Expect the deer to run 100 yards before dropping dead. Same as a muzzle loading rifle really - just need to be more selective about the shot placement as the projectile will not penetrate as much of the deer.

You can adjust the sights by carefully filing the rear hammer notch - if its shooting left, then file a bit off of the right side to make the "center" further to the right, moving the point of impact that way. To lower point of impact, take some off of the bottom of the notch and lower the front sight in the rear notch a bit more when aiming.

Practice, practice, practice.

The 1860 can also be used for hunting but your range needs to be closer as it doesn't hold as much powder and can't push the projectiles as fast. Should be fine out to 50 yards though with maximum loads (35 grains with a ball).

Dixie gun works has good holsters for the Dragoon - you can get strong side traditional (butt forward) or get a left side which will puts the butt rearward on the right side. Reverse if you're left handed. There are other good places for them too.

Do check the game laws as most states don't allow cap and balls during "muzzleloader" season.

Good luck with us and post updates and results!

 

[ROA]

Thanks Guys!

Osok, thanks man! I will definitely use your advice for this, and let you know how it turns out~!!

 

[mykeal]

A good holster is not enough...

Even the best holster is of little use if the belt is too narrow or too thin, ESPECIALLY if the revolver is a Dragoon or a Walker. The heavy holster/gun combination will quickly deform a thin or narrow belt and it will lose all stability - you might just as well use a rope.

I recommend a horsehide belt of 2 or 2 1/4 or even 2 1/2 inches in width. Cowhide, unless it is unusually thick does not have the strength for the heavy revolvers over the long run.

 

[ROA]

Good Holster-

Hi Mykeal- I got a galco lined holster belt, It is 1 1/2 inch wide, about. And it is very thick. It should be enough, right? Everytime I see the dragoon, in a picture or other, someone is always just holding it. I almost never see it in a holster,...
I was looking for something that looks great and is good, but I don't see anything that great other than the one from Texas Jacks- That one is made specifically for it..

Thanks!

 

[mykeal]

I wish I had a good internet reference for a horsehide belt, but I've never had occasion to look for one. Mine was made by a local guy after I complained about one of his cowhide belts not holding up. The difference is remarkable, although it took some time to really become obvious. The only thing the belt has not stood up to is the required increase in length...

I suppose an inch and a half would be ok if the material was thick enough - depends on how it was cured and what the base material was.

The Dragoon was marketed by Colt as a "horse pistol", that is, it was intended to be carried in a holster attached to the saddle, not worn on a belt. It was just too heavy for that. The Dragoons, after all, were mounted soldiers who had the ability to also dismount and fight as infantry. That's why you rarely see them in a belted holster.

 

[Slamfire]

I am not enamored about the powder of a Black Powder Pistol. I took my Colt signature 3rd Model to the range and did some chronographing. The velocities were disappointing. One problem was getting data, there is so much junk going across the screens that the chronograph could not get a reading. I had only one data point with Pyrodex. Since then I have purchased 20 extra feet of cable. Really needed it with a Musket.

I used a 40 volumetric tube, but I don’t believe that a 50 is somehow going to give me 1100 fps. Not with the powder I was using.

If you look at my velocities and the 142 grain bullet I was using, a 38 Special 148 LSWC target load is pretty close in comparison. I have no desire to use such a pop gun load for defense, never mind hunting animals which are likely to run off and die an agonizing death.

And just wait till you get your 2nd Model Dragoon. There is a reason the holsters were left on the horse. Better wear suspenders on your belt, because the pistol is going to take your pants off!.


Colt 3rd Model Dragoon


142 gr .454 Round Ball 40 grain Volumetric Measured GOEX FFG RWS cap
24 July 1999 T= 99 - 100 ° F

Ave Vel = 785
Std Dev = 30
ES 73
Low 741
High 814
N = 4


142 gr .454 Round Ball 40 grain Volumetric Measured GOEX FFG CCI#11 cap
24 July 1999 T= 99 - 100 ° F

Ave Vel = 837
Std Dev = 18
ES 56
Low 814
High 870
N = 8


142 gr .454 Round Ball 40 grain Volumetric Measured Pyrodex Rem #1 cap
24 July 1999 T= 99 - 100 ° F solids caused chronograph malfunction.

Ave Vel = 920
Std Dev = 0
ES 0
Low 920
High 920
N = 1

 

[DixieTexian]

If you look at my velocities and the 142 grain bullet I was using, a 38 Special 148 LSWC target load is pretty close in comparison. I have no desire to use such a pop gun load for defense, never mind hunting animals which are likely to run off and die an agonizing death.

If someone doesn't shoot it, it will most definately die an agonizing death. Not to say that shot placement and take down power isn't important, but nature is a cruel master.

 

[O.S.O.K.]

velocities

I was referring to Pyrodex P velocities and using a lubed felt wad. Your velocities look low. Do you think maybe the loads weren't compressed completely? I would think that 40 grains would allow for good compression...

And I think I said something about preferring the 200 grain conical for hunting...

Although a roundball will do the trick if the ranges aren't excessive and shot placement is good. We are talking about a .451" pure lead ball that will expand on impact and make a very large cavity into the game animal.

 

[DMZ]

142 gr .454 Round Ball 40 grain Volumetric Measured Pyrodex Rem #1 cap
24 July 1999 T= 99 - 100 ° F solids caused chronograph malfunction.

Ave Vel = 920
Std Dev = 0
ES 0
Low 920
High 920
N = 1


I would like to see a 200 grain conical under 45 grains of Pyrodex exceed the velocity of a 142 gr ball under 40 grains.