koja48
member
correct load for Pterodactyl
Bet the dekes are a bugger to haul in & set-up
Bet the dekes are a bugger to haul in & set-up
What caliber for Velociraptors?
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Gunnerpalace
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Milkor MGL (A six shot grenade launcher) with HE rounds, and if that fails a Desert Eagle in .50AE.
PercyShelley
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Well, here's what my Guide to Theropod Hunting, 10th edition has to say:
Velociraptors, along with their heavier, nastier cousins, are built a lot more like a bird than a traditional reptile.
To wit, like other maniraptors, dromaeosaurs are heavily pneumaticized; hardly "overbuilt" by any stretch of the imagination.
Take a look at this skull reconstruction:
http://dino.lm.com/images/display.php?id=3248
(note that the upturned nasal profile is now known to be taphonomic, and would not represent the actual shape of the skull in life)
Given the degree of pneumatization in these animals, and their phylogenic position, it is reasonable to assume that they breathe via a system of air sacs and rigid lungs, as in birds. The presence of an uncinate process in some dromaeosaurs (velociraptor was pretty derived, so I think it had them but I don't know if they've been confirmed), which makes the ribcage rigid, further suggests that dromaeosaurs did not breathe in the traditional septate manner.
The metabolic rates of dinosaurs, and especially maniraptors are still the subject of some debate, but the presence of non-flight adaptive integument in forms as basal as ceolurosaurs (e.g. sinosauropteryx) suggests raised rates vis a vis the typical reptilian condition. After all, what's the point of insulation if you aren't generating any heat?
Still, velociraptor probably would not have a metabolism quite as fast as, say, a finch. Metabolic rates seem to scale back the more "primitive" birds are, with paleognathous birds like kiwis having positively sluggish energetics by avian standards. We can probably reasonably assume that velociraptor's energy demands were similar, if not somewhat lower.
The net of it is that lung shots will not be a reliable means of incapacitation in these animals. Birds have twelve air sacs spread throughout the body. Velociraptors will likely have a similar setup; multiple, distributed air sacs with independent contractile tissues and ennervation. Hitting the lungs proper will be highly unlikely, as those organs will be tiny, and hitting the air sacs is unlikely to cause a catastrophic decline in the amount of oxygen being delivered to the brain, especially since their modest metabolic demands will make them more resistant to this form of incapacitation in the first place.
Furthermore, like most dromaeosaurs, velociraptor possesses rather large sternal plates:
http://dino.lm.com/images/display.php?id=3215
It is probable that such plates will interfere with the intended expansion and path of traditional varmint bullets. It will additionally desirable to shoot these animals from the side.
Velociraptors, therefore, should not be treated as varmints, despite their modest mass of fifteen or so kilograms. Rather, they should be thought of as a lightly constructed creature that is nonetheless extremely durable.
The wild turkey is a good analogy, and calibers for velociraptor should be chosen accordingly, keeping in mind that velociraptors are four times as heavy as turkeys, and other dromaeosaur genera larger still.
A 3 inch 12 gauge load with #3 shot should provide enough penetration from the sides to find something vital, although such a load might only be reliable to only 50 meters or so. A 3 1/2 inch 12 gauge or 10 gauge shotgun would be more desirable if weight and recoil are tolerable, although shots should probably still be kept within 50 meters, as it is both unethical and undesirable to wound a velociraptor.
Blackpowder is an excellent choice for the traditionally minded velociraptor hunter, with smoothbores of .70 caliber and up being reliably lethal out to as far as one can reliably hit the target.
High-powered rifles are not a terribly desirable choice for velociraptor hunting. The animals' pneumatic construction interferes with reliable expansion of high velocity soft and hollowpoint ammunition. Larger caliber chamberings, however, such as .45/70 government and the new .500, .460 and .458s will perform adequately if placed in the heart, liver or central nervous system.
Color vision is a primitive condition that most archosaurs retain, and velociraptors are certainly no exception. Wearing orange is a sure way to give away your position, and nothing ruins a velociraptor hunt faster than letting the velociraptors know where you are first. Full body camouflage is a must, and it is considered common courtesy to place a ribbon on a nearby tree to let other velociraptor hunters in the area know that a particular field is already taken. Cases of mistaken identity while wearing camouflage are the second leading cause of injuries while hunting velociraptors, so spread out!
Scent masking is not necessary. Like all maniraptors, velociraptors have a poor sense of smell by theropodian standards. This mimics the conditions of birds, which further lends credence to Gregory S. Paul's neoflightlessness hypothesis, although that is peripheral to the current discussion, strictly speaking. It will suffice to say that keeping downwind of the quarry is desirable, but not always necessary.
Proper equipment choice is key to a successful velociraptor hunt, but so is the right mindset and physical condition! If you do not feel comfortable walking, crawling, or possibly running in terror for several miles a day, then velociraptor is not for you! It is also imperative that you feel comfortable, competent and confident operating your firearm, possibly under adverse conditions, such as rain, snow, low light, or heavy bleeding.
Finally, always remember to take time to follow safe hunting practices and follow all state and local regulations!
Have fun and keep safe out there!
Velociraptors, along with their heavier, nastier cousins, are built a lot more like a bird than a traditional reptile.
To wit, like other maniraptors, dromaeosaurs are heavily pneumaticized; hardly "overbuilt" by any stretch of the imagination.
Take a look at this skull reconstruction:
http://dino.lm.com/images/display.php?id=3248
(note that the upturned nasal profile is now known to be taphonomic, and would not represent the actual shape of the skull in life)
Given the degree of pneumatization in these animals, and their phylogenic position, it is reasonable to assume that they breathe via a system of air sacs and rigid lungs, as in birds. The presence of an uncinate process in some dromaeosaurs (velociraptor was pretty derived, so I think it had them but I don't know if they've been confirmed), which makes the ribcage rigid, further suggests that dromaeosaurs did not breathe in the traditional septate manner.
The metabolic rates of dinosaurs, and especially maniraptors are still the subject of some debate, but the presence of non-flight adaptive integument in forms as basal as ceolurosaurs (e.g. sinosauropteryx) suggests raised rates vis a vis the typical reptilian condition. After all, what's the point of insulation if you aren't generating any heat?
Still, velociraptor probably would not have a metabolism quite as fast as, say, a finch. Metabolic rates seem to scale back the more "primitive" birds are, with paleognathous birds like kiwis having positively sluggish energetics by avian standards. We can probably reasonably assume that velociraptor's energy demands were similar, if not somewhat lower.
The net of it is that lung shots will not be a reliable means of incapacitation in these animals. Birds have twelve air sacs spread throughout the body. Velociraptors will likely have a similar setup; multiple, distributed air sacs with independent contractile tissues and ennervation. Hitting the lungs proper will be highly unlikely, as those organs will be tiny, and hitting the air sacs is unlikely to cause a catastrophic decline in the amount of oxygen being delivered to the brain, especially since their modest metabolic demands will make them more resistant to this form of incapacitation in the first place.
Furthermore, like most dromaeosaurs, velociraptor possesses rather large sternal plates:
http://dino.lm.com/images/display.php?id=3215
It is probable that such plates will interfere with the intended expansion and path of traditional varmint bullets. It will additionally desirable to shoot these animals from the side.
Velociraptors, therefore, should not be treated as varmints, despite their modest mass of fifteen or so kilograms. Rather, they should be thought of as a lightly constructed creature that is nonetheless extremely durable.
The wild turkey is a good analogy, and calibers for velociraptor should be chosen accordingly, keeping in mind that velociraptors are four times as heavy as turkeys, and other dromaeosaur genera larger still.
A 3 inch 12 gauge load with #3 shot should provide enough penetration from the sides to find something vital, although such a load might only be reliable to only 50 meters or so. A 3 1/2 inch 12 gauge or 10 gauge shotgun would be more desirable if weight and recoil are tolerable, although shots should probably still be kept within 50 meters, as it is both unethical and undesirable to wound a velociraptor.
Blackpowder is an excellent choice for the traditionally minded velociraptor hunter, with smoothbores of .70 caliber and up being reliably lethal out to as far as one can reliably hit the target.
High-powered rifles are not a terribly desirable choice for velociraptor hunting. The animals' pneumatic construction interferes with reliable expansion of high velocity soft and hollowpoint ammunition. Larger caliber chamberings, however, such as .45/70 government and the new .500, .460 and .458s will perform adequately if placed in the heart, liver or central nervous system.
Color vision is a primitive condition that most archosaurs retain, and velociraptors are certainly no exception. Wearing orange is a sure way to give away your position, and nothing ruins a velociraptor hunt faster than letting the velociraptors know where you are first. Full body camouflage is a must, and it is considered common courtesy to place a ribbon on a nearby tree to let other velociraptor hunters in the area know that a particular field is already taken. Cases of mistaken identity while wearing camouflage are the second leading cause of injuries while hunting velociraptors, so spread out!
Scent masking is not necessary. Like all maniraptors, velociraptors have a poor sense of smell by theropodian standards. This mimics the conditions of birds, which further lends credence to Gregory S. Paul's neoflightlessness hypothesis, although that is peripheral to the current discussion, strictly speaking. It will suffice to say that keeping downwind of the quarry is desirable, but not always necessary.
Proper equipment choice is key to a successful velociraptor hunt, but so is the right mindset and physical condition! If you do not feel comfortable walking, crawling, or possibly running in terror for several miles a day, then velociraptor is not for you! It is also imperative that you feel comfortable, competent and confident operating your firearm, possibly under adverse conditions, such as rain, snow, low light, or heavy bleeding.
Finally, always remember to take time to follow safe hunting practices and follow all state and local regulations!
Have fun and keep safe out there!
RonE
Member
I use a varmit rifle based on the .50 bmg necked down to .223 with 120 gr of 4198 and 62 gr spitzer solids. I usually kill them at a half mile or more and a bullet with a volicity of 7,125 fps isn't what really kills them, it's the shock wave.
rantingredneck
Member
This has probably already been said, but I'm too lazy to read the last three pages:
.577 T-Rex
but I believe in overkill.
.577 T-Rex
but I believe in overkill.
Pigspitter
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I think I would choose death if my other option was to buy 416 rigby in bulk.
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