Barrel Liner Questions

[BigBlue 94]

So I have this old gun...

Lol how many stories start like that!?

Anyways, its a Hopkins and Allen No.922 single shot falling block 22. The outside is absolutely gorgeous. Likey refinished. But the bore looks like an old clay sewer pipe. I know the gun is not valuable, but it looks great and would be a fun shooter.

So that leads to my questions. Brownells lists the job as costing $125 to $225, not including the cost of the liner or bluing. I can get the liner and drill bit from brownells for about $125. Plus whatever to glue it in. I have a grizzly 12x36 lathe/mill combo and know how to use it fairly well: I have 9 months of hands on schooling on on manual lathes and mills. Its about a 1500 lb machine and holds good tolerance. Spindle bore is plenty large for the barrel and has support screws in the back end of the spindle bore. 1 HP or 1.5 HP gearhead with 9 speeds.

Anyone done this and want to share some tips?
Is acraglass the best to glue the liner in?
Will my machine handle this?
Or would I be better off finding a professional to do this?

Its also a takedown, making the job easier...

 

[mcb]

I have not done it but I had a Winchester 1906 done by a local gun smith and it worked out fairly well. I am a engineer but learned machining in school and on the job, I am far from a machinist, that said, I think your machine could do the work and it would be a fun project. If I had had access to a similar lathe at the time I had mine done I might have tried to do it myself too. With the piloted drill bit it should not be to hard to do, lots of lubricant and take your time.

When mine was done I was also having it re-blued too, so he silver solder the liner into mine if I remember correctly. For a 22LR through with that much surface area I would not be afraid to use glue so you don't need to re-blue.

I vote for giving it a try yourself, making a shooter out of a neat old gun!

 

[beag_nut]

Will the headstock on your machine accept the barrel diameter? Mine won't.

 

[Jim Watson]

Hey, learn on your own gun and go into the business.

 

[Col. Harrumph]

Buy a junk barrel and practice boring it out?

 

[BigBlue 94]

Will the headstock on your machine accept the barrel diameter? Mine won't.

Yes, spindle/headstock bore is 1.75" or so.

Buy a junk barrel and practice boring it out?

Ive got a cut off 10/22 barrel that would work perfect for that!

 

[H&R Glock]

If you do it yourself, watch Larry Potterfield do it first on YouTube. I've seen it so many times I have oil on my hands.

 

[BigBlue 94]

I read through the instructions Brownells provides. Seems easy enough. They even say you can fo it with a hand drill. They are out of Acraglas currently in tye small size, but everything else totals up to about $250.

 

[Jim Watson]

Budget for a chamber reamer, too.

I have a 1939 Stoegers reprint with equipment and procedures for Parkerrifling liners. No epoxy back then, a soft solder setup.
A friend has a rook rifle Parkerrifled from some obscure round to .22 LR.
"PARKERRIFLED" stamped on the muzzle over the seam.

 

[Col. Harrumph]

If not Acraglas, maybe red LocTite? A .22 RF won't generate enough heat to degrade either one.

 

[BigBlue 94]

Budget for a chamber reamer, too.

I have a 1939 Stoegers reprint with equipment and procedures for Parkerrifling liners. No epoxy back then, a soft solder setup.
A friend has a rook rifle Parkerrifled from some obscure round to .22 LR.
"PARKERRIFLED" stamped on the muzzle over the seam.

That most recent $250 figure includes a finishing reamer!

If not Acraglas, maybe red LocTite? A .22 RF won't generate enough heat to degrade either one.

Green loctite would be the weapon of choice. It is for slip fit applications. It is a single shot so it wont get even remotely hot.


I got this gun when my mom's father passed on. He had prior to that given me a good deal of his collection behind the backs of his two sons and other daughter. He knew i would appreciate and use em. This H&A was one of a bunch lain out on a table that me and my two uncles got to take turns choosing from. My mom wanted this one because its pretty! I was a sophomore in high school at the time and didnt know more than the typical big name brands. Had no idea the last H&A rolled off the line in 1915

 

[Kp321]

No reason not to do it yourself. I even made my own piloted drill using a tool post grinder to produce the reduced pilot. Silver soldered it onto a piece of drill rod and went to work. I made three spare drills in case I broke one but never needed them.
It’s been a long time since I read any instructions so bear with me in case I am repeating what you have already read. Rather than using the tail stock chuck to hold the drill, I use a boring bar holder on the carriage so I can use the power feed. Without a flow through drill, the bit needs to be backed out often to clear chips and apply more cutting oil. The drill bit I made would get chip bound in about .100” of travel so it takes lots of trips in and out. Bore over half way then turn the barrel and come in from the other end so the drill doesn’t have to be so long.
I started out soft soldering the liners but quickly went to Acraglas, dyed black. After verifying the liner will slip onto the barrel,degrease the hole and liner very well and coat both with the Acraglas. I made a pilot that will fit into the bore of the liner and is a few thousands smaller than the OD of the liner to guide it through and keep epoxy out of the bore. After the liner is pushed into place with some liner sticking out of each end of the barrel, seal the breech end of the barrel with modeling clay to keep the epoxy from running out and clamp the barrel in a vise vertically, muzzle up, and let it set till cured. Face off, crown and chamber and cut needed extractor slots. It’s not a difficult job, just long and tedious. Don’t get in a hurry!

 

[BillTell]

Here's my $00.02 worth of advice. If you think you have the proper supplies, tools, and knowledge, why not give it a try? HOWEVER, I would probably find out about somebody who does this often enough that they are known to be good at it, go see them, and ask for some advice. I think any reputable gunsmith would be happy to share some tips. I like to think that like a surgeon, they don't always take the job. They put you first, and will say, "no, you can handle this", or, "well, it's pretty tricky, that's why people pay me". I've got an old Paul Erdelt stalking gun with set triggers in .22 that is just completely shot out. I've been thinking on having it lined for a couple years now, because it's cool and I want to shoot it accurately, but didn't know if I'd ruin it having that done, but it would be better than it just sitting in the closet. I just haven't found the right person to do it yet. I say if you think you can handle it, go for it, but don't go blindly. Talk to a pro first.

 

[BigBlue 94]

No reason not to do it yourself. I even made my own piloted drill using a tool post grinder to produce the reduced pilot. Silver soldered it onto a piece of drill rod and went to work. I made three spare drills in case I broke one but never needed them.
It’s been a long time since I read any instructions so bear with me in case I am repeating what you have already read. Rather than using the tail stock chuck to hold the drill, I use a boring bar holder on the carriage so I can use the power feed. Without a flow through drill, the bit needs to be backed out often to clear chips and apply more cutting oil. The drill bit I made would get chip bound in about .100” of travel so it takes lots of trips in and out. Bore over half way then turn the barrel and come in from the other end so the drill doesn’t have to be so long.
I started out soft soldering the liners but quickly went to Acraglas, dyed black. After verifying the liner will slip onto the barrel,degrease the hole and liner very well and coat both with the Acraglas. I made a pilot that will fit into the bore of the liner and is a few thousands smaller than the OD of the liner to guide it through and keep epoxy out of the bore. After the liner is pushed into place with some liner sticking out of each end of the barrel, seal the breech end of the barrel with modeling clay to keep the epoxy from running out and clamp the barrel in a vise vertically, muzzle up, and let it set till cured. Face off, crown and chamber and cut needed extractor slots. It’s not a difficult job, just long and tedious. Don’t get in a hurry!

That is pretty spot on to the Brownells instructions. Few variations, but darn close. They too suggest using the tool post and power feed.

I do not feel comfortable making an extended drill bit. The bit sold by brownells is 15" long and has a really long helix for chip removal. They say every inch or two to back out. But ill do whatever the drill bit tells me it wants! The barrel itself is 24.5" long from muzzle to breech.

Just for reference, this was my final project in school, a Stirling engine fan. Made from scratch, 70% manual machines, 30% on CNC. Runs about 700 rpms

 

[BillTell]

Nice! Does it get F.M.?

 

[BigBlue 94]

Nice! Does it get F.M.?

Nope just A.M.!

 

[doubleh]

I have done one. I made my own deep drill by setting it up on my lathe and brazing the bit and rod together so it was true and started the hole in the barrel by drilling as deep as possible using my lathe, and then finishing the job with the deep drill and a cordless drill. Drill a little bit, pull it out to clean the chips, and repeat. It took awhile to do. It was an experiment as it was a junk Marlin 22 rifle that was my test bed. I used 30 minute Devcon epoxy to glue the liner in. The rifle has lasted several years now and is as accurate as it probably was when new, 1 1/4-1/2" groups at 50 yards off a bench with CCI mini-mags.

 

[Armorer 101]

The answer is yes, yes, yes, yes, more yes.

I would rather have someone else snap their liner drill bit off. Old and cheap does not make a fine steel for a barrel, to start with. Might be miles ahead to just have the hole for the liner drilled. Then you install the liner, face it off, crown and chamber.
You use Acraglass with black dye, period.
A hardwood block to push with and vice-grips to turn the liner in just one direction as you go, it centers itself.
Recess crown to the outside liner’s edge, it hides the liner in the cut.
Chamber in the liner with a match 22 LR reamer.
Coat outside of old barrel with two coats of paste wax.

Make sure to go slow, clean with air frequently and use lots of cutting oil, let the drill bit cool. If it says 2” only cut 1” then when done with drill cut, clean the old barrel inside and out, swab out with acetone to remove all oil, scrub the outside of the liner with acetone. Say the barrel is 24” and the liner is 26”, that allows you 1” excess on both ends. Clamp the vice-grip at 1/2”, push against the end with the flat hardwood block, turning as you go. Just start the liner in the barrel and coat with a tongue depressor. It is a 3 handed operation, you turn and push, helper coats liner with Acraglass. The Acraglass centers the liner as you turn it in. Stop when the Acraglass coat on the liner just passes the muzzle, if you started at the chamber end. Let cure 24 hours.
After 24 hours, face off each end. recess crown, chamber

Take the cut barrel out of the lathe, put it in a padded vice to insert the liner. Do not ever get Acraglass on the ways of your lathe. This job can be a big mess from start to finish. I have done a couple of dozen, snapped off one bit on a hard spot in an old barrel. That happens on old barrels. So, slowest speed, slow hand feed, frequent air cleaning bit and barrel, and much cutting oil.

 

[BigBlue 94]

So, slowest speed, slow hand feed, frequent air cleaning bit and

I would rather hand feed a drill vs using the power feed so thats nice to know. That way its easier to feel what the bit is doing.

Got a fresh gallon of mobil cutting oil too.

So you say no to the 620 green loctite? Reasons? I would do acraglas if they had one smaller than a quart in stock.

 

[Armorer 101]

The Loctite may not be thick enough, Acraglass gel is what you may want if you can get it, it is thick enough to support the liner at 360 degrees, separation, for centering. It takes the vice-grips to hand turn the liner with the acraglas gel.
By the way, I put chamber sleeves in a scored 445 Super Mag Dan Wesson revolver cylinder with Black Locktite, the black has about 6,000 psi shear strength, is used to mount roller bearings on a smooth shaft. I made up a 30 Cal revolver cartridge for shooting 30 cal rifle bullets, in my 357 SM DW revolver with a 10” .308 barrel. I had .001 total clearance or .0005 per side for the sleeves, if memory serves, the liner has about .004 in total clearance or so, you should check your deferential, ID VS OD, plus Locktite releases with heat, so no hot blue.
I see no Acraglas gel in stock… not so good.