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What Should I Do With This Browning Model 71?

What happens to the M71?

  • It stays stock

    Votes: 33 53.2%
  • Recoil pad & peep sights

    Votes: 23 37.1%
  • Convert to .50-110

    Votes: 3 4.8%
  • Covert to big or medium bore wildcat (respond with caliber)

    Votes: 3 4.8%

  • Total voters
    62
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So now that we sort of know you didn't have any intention of leaving the rifle in 348, the question would then become why not pick up one of the 86 copies and convert it to 50-110. That's the rifle the cartridge was introduced and produced in.
 
If it were mine, I would definitely keep the original and historic .348 cartridge chambering, install a period correct rear apurture sight and finally put on a recoil pad then take it out in the woods and hunt with it as both God and John Moses Browning intended.

There's no reason not to make it easier to shoot well. Guns are meant to be shot, not hide in a safe or box somewhere. I'm saving up to get a Providence Tool Co period peep sight to install on my Browning / Winchester 1895 in .30-40 Krag, to make it easier for old eyes to see.
 
Leave it as is.
My best friend had one back in the '90's when Browning made a run of them. He provided me with brass, bullets and powder, etc. I loaded them up using Ken Waters load with IMR4350. He also had some vintage Winchester ammo.
The Hornady 200gr were tack drivers shooting "clusters" at 100yds with open sights. He used it to kill several deer and pigs. He installed a reciever sight on it later. Lyman IIRC.

Hawk custom bullets makes some outstanding bonded bullets and has reasonable prices. With decent bullets, its limitations are mostly just perceived, not reality. Brass treated well lasts a long time. I wish I could have gotten it from his widow in 1998 when he passed.

I did manage to snag his Browning BLR'81 steel reciever .358win with Leupold 2-7 and 3 magazines! It's almost too pretty to hunt with. But just almost...I have come to terms with the trigger after about 2 yrs of tinkering with two Garands, a Springfield 03-A3, a Lee Enfield Mk4#1, and a S&W M69 and M625 .45colt Mountain gun. Nothing like old military or modern double actions to teach you trigger control. Or blind to it...
 
So now that we sort of know you didn't have any intention of leaving the rifle in 348, the question would then become why not pick up one of the 86 copies and convert it to 50-110. That's the rifle the cartridge was introduced and produced in.

I haven't decided whether to convert it. And the reason you convert 71s and not 1886 copies in .45-70 when you're going to .50-110 or .50AK is that 71s have the right bolt face (.610). They start closer than any 1886 that wasn't already in .50-110 would be.
 
The rim diameter of the 348 is .610, the rim diameter of the 45-70 is .608. That's not enough difference to bother a thing.
Hmm, looks like you're right, but I do recall there's a boltface issue of some sort. Perhaps related to the base diameter and extractor?
 
Jamison just recently ran out of brass, and loaded ammo. They are gearing up to run a lot of the stuff they are out of now. I'm patiently waiting for their next run of 40-70 ss. They did however discontinue the 50-110, and 50-90 sharps brass due to lack of sales.
 
Jamison just recently ran out of brass, and loaded ammo. They are gearing up to run a lot of the stuff they are out of now. I'm patiently waiting for their next run of 40-70 ss. They did however discontinue the 50-110, and 50-90 sharps brass due to lack of sales.
I suspect when Starline picked up .50-110 Jamison experienced a marked decrease in sales.

Now if only Starline would pick up .348...
 
One other reason I suspect M71s get converted is that you KNOW they can handle 46KPSI in a .50-110 base diameter cartridge, or 50KPSI in a .45-70/90 base diameter. That makes the loads the duplicate various classic safari cartridges possible. I'm not sure where the Italian guns stand one way or the other.
 
348 pressures top out right at 40K cup. Not sure why anyone would want to push either the 86 or the 71 to 50K psi , that's more pressure than a .458 win mag runs.. Those big bullets don't need high pressure to do their work.
 
348 pressures top out right at 40K cup. Not sure why anyone would want to push either the 86 or the 71 to 50K psi , that's more pressure than a .458 win mag runs.. Those big bullets don't need high pressure to do their work.
CUP and PSI aren't the same thing of course - CUP is shorthand for "we measured this badly and are just guessing" :D

.348 max is 46KPSI as well, so this is nothing new. Same for .50-110. The .45-90 and .45-70 (Miroku 1886 ONLY) are also 50KPSI.
 
Yep , there's no shortage of folks with disabled left hands that follow that line of thought.

What line of thought is that? That pressure should be measured accurately in well established units?

Seriously, you don't know what you're talking about on this point. Attempting to do ANYTHING in CUP at this point is dangerous and stupid.
 
Funny, Lyman and Hogdon data are both presented in CUP. Been reloading a lot of stuff for over a 1/2 century using data presented at CUP.. Was going to offer up 5 boxes of 20 ct. WW 348 brass new in the box.. but think after that last comment,,,,
 
And much of the Lyman and Hogdon data is pretty bad. CUP is simply PSI measured inaccurately. Even a quick look at the respective SAAMI specs makes that clear.

Suffice to say lots of people with good equipment including strain gauges have put effort into figuring out how to safely reload for the Miroku actions. The numbers I quoted are pretty widely accepted. If you go to an old Winchester action, you probably want to drop down about 10% in terms of MAP.
 
All this talk and seeing those custom shop Marlins at the NRA show have me thinking about converting my 1895 to .50AK with a half round/half octagon barrel and having Turnbull do some finish work on it.


So now that we sort of know you didn't have any intention of leaving the rifle in 348, the question would then become why not pick up one of the 86 copies and convert it to 50-110. That's the rifle the cartridge was introduced and produced in.
Why would you buy an 1886 to convert when you already have a 71? That makes no sense and I'd rather have the pistol grip stock anyway.


348 pressures top out right at 40K cup. Not sure why anyone would want to push either the 86 or the 71 to 50K psi , that's more pressure than a .458 win mag runs.. Those big bullets don't need high pressure to do their work.
No but higher velocity helps extend your effective range.


Yep , there's no shortage of folks with disabled left hands that follow that line of thought.
Oh please. The modern 1886 action is proven to be 10,000psi stronger than the Marlin 1895, squarely in Ruger No. 1 territory.
 
No but higher velocity helps extend your effective range.
And makes it legal in some places, although the law's gotten less picky over time.
Oh please. The modern 1886 action is proven to be 10,000psi stronger than the Marlin 1895, squarely in Ruger No. 1 territory.
Funny story about that. Miroku made a very small number of Winchester branded 1886s chambered in .45-90 from the factory. I've only come across one, and it was a beautiful gun - pistol grip, shotgun stock, recoil pad, 26" octagon barrel. It had the rebounding safety and hammer, but hey you can't win 'em all. Anyways that gun ended up where it belonged in the hands of a Texas-based PH who took it to Africa to do game control and had the usual 3rd world adventures - braining a charging elephant with it, that sort of thing. Before he went, he worked up a bunch of loads without the benefit of a strain gauge. One of them supposedly drove a 450gr. Northfork or Barnes solid "just shy" of 2100 ft/s using H322. Now, if you go look at the Hodgdon data, it says the max velocity for a 450gr soft in .458 WIN MAG is right at about 2100 depending on the powder. And this was a solid, not a soft. The bullet is 1.4" long in a cartridge with a 2.8" OAL. There's no powder space left by the time you seat it! So this load was at or over .458 WM max performance.

So anyways down the road I have my own .45-90 (a converted Miroku/Browning .45-70) and in the process of finding load data for it I find out what this guy's load was. I won't repeat it here for fear someone might try it, but the filling ratio was 130% (that is, the powder loose took 1.3x the space available in the case). I bet that crunched when he seated the bullet... Moreover, in the process of working up loads for my gun I learned some key info like the actual burn rate of H322 in a straight wall cartridge (it's not the same as a bottleneck) that allowed me to accurately simulate that load. Sure enough, it moved that solid out at a simulated 2,091 ft/s - and 73KPSI. Apparently he'd tried 1/2 a grain more but had sticky extraction and backed off - safety first :D
 
Funny story about that. Miroku made a very small number of Winchester branded 1886s chambered in .45-90 from the factory.
I remember seeing those on Davidson's site. I should have ordered one then but even though my 1895 .405 is a fantastic rifle, I still have an issue with the tang safety/rebounding hammer. I'd like to buy one in .50-110 from Turnbull with all that fixed. I was perusing their site yesterday and saw that engraved `86 with the charcoal blue receiver that is just gorgeous. They had a gently used Extra Light at the local shop recently and I considered it for a project but I passed on it too. I've wanted one for a long time but still prefer the pistol grip and it had really plain wood. For me, this is one of those cases where perfection has to be made, not just bought.
 
You should sell it to some one who really appreciates it. JMO>
There's 54 model 71s of US Winchester or Miroku manufacture on Gunbroker right now. Anyone who's been pining for one can have one in hand a week from now easy.
 
There's 54 model 71s of US Winchester or Miroku manufacture on Gunbroker right now. Anyone who's been pining for one can have one in hand a week from now easy.
Thank you for the comment......... But I was talking about you.
No offense intended.
 
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