Lever action rifles

Honestly, for most peoples' uses, a comparison of the strength of the various lever-action rifles is truly irrelevant. They're all as strong as they need to be for the cartridges they chamber.

The vast majority of my lever-action experience with with Marlins. An 1895, an 1894 and a 336. To be fair, the 1895 was my brother's, but he left it in my care for a bit so naturally I shot it some. The Marlins are simple, reliable workhorse rifles. They're probably the easiest to breakdown for routine cleaning, as Slamfire mentions. Pull the pivot screw from the lever, drop the lever out, pull the bolt out the back of the receiver. It's not quite as convenient as removing the bolt from a Mauser 98 or a Remington 700, but it isn't bad compared to disassembling a Winchester lever-action.

Around this corner of the Northeast, the lever action was the traditional hunting rifle, just like in the Ozarks where DDDWho hunted. They're generally compact, relatively light and chambered in usefully powerful cartridges. My family were Winchester people; I can think of at least 3 Winchester 1894s in .30-30, though there's rumor of an old Savage 95 in .303 Savage living with one of the extended cousins.

The more important questions are what do you want to do with the rifle and where do have available to do it. If you're confined to indoor ranges, or other short range restrictions, a pistol-caliber lever-action makes sense and is a lot of fun. If you're hunting, that opens up a whole new set of questions and options. What size game? What ranges? Do you want a scope? Iron sights only?

Also, lever-actions don't have to be limited to traditional set-ups either. This transformation of my 336BL in .30-30 has been quite a bit of fun to work with.

Wanderinwalker, very well said. I have a 336-35 Rem and a 1895-45/70. Wish I had a 1895 26" bbl.

I am really pleased with my Winchester/Miroku .357 model 1873. These rifles are made with obvious great care and high standards by craftsmen

Slamfire said:

With modern materials the modern actions are "stronger" but that does not mean higher pressure loads will function better in them. Due to the action designs, attempts to hot rod them will result in stuck cases and case head separations.

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I don’t disagree, and this is why my rossi 92 perplexes me. It’s chambered in 454 casull, a 65k psi cartridge, about as high pressure you can get. Rossi states the only changes to the action is a different heat treat from their 44mag, 45 Colt, and 357 actions. I was skeptical still. I remember seeing an article online where a guy shot 500 rounds of 454 and measured the locking lugs to the ten-thousandth of an inch and there was minimal change from unfired to 500 rounds fired.

The article was enough to convince me as I own one now, though I still scratch my head.

Jessesky said:

I don’t disagree, and this is why my rossi 92 perplexes me. It’s chambered in 454 casull, a 65k psi cartridge, about as high pressure you can get. Rossi states the only changes to the action is a different heat treat from their 44mag, 45 Colt, and 357 actions. I was skeptical still. I remember seeing an article online where a guy shot 500 rounds of 454 and measured the locking lugs to the ten-thousandth of an inch and there was minimal change from unfired to 500 rounds fired.

The article was enough to convince me as I own one now, though I still scratch my head.

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Rossi did something. But look around, are there any traditional rear locking lever actions chambered in 65,000 psia bottlenecked cartridges? The Casull is a straight necked cartridge and there is no shoulder to expand against a chamber wall. That expansion will keep the bolt under compression after the bullet has left the barrel. That will result in sticking extraction. I am surprised you are not experiencing case head separations, but then, maybe that is also due to the straight walled case. A bottlenecked case will grip the front of the chamber. But you are right, the Rossi is a rear locked traditional lever, and it operating at 65,000 psia.

Makes me wonder if a 45/70 lever, of improved materials and heat treat, can withstand 458 Winchester Magnum pressures. The 458 Win Mag has about zero shoulder and of course, the 45/70 is straight walled. Not that I am going to try.

My Marlin 30-30, during load testing I hit some maximum loads, which were evidenced by the lever coming unlatched and if my memory was right, harder than normal extraction.

I'll skim the top but this is the relative strength of the most popular traditional leverguns in descending order:

Pistol cartridge
1. Winchester 1892 - the 1892 is the 1886's little brother, designed by John Browning and easily the strongest of the pistol cartridge actions by 10,000psi. Good to 50,000psi in .45Colt. A slightly modified 92 action is the only available that could stand up to the 65,000psi .454 Casull. All the rest were tried with various levels of failure.

2. Marlin 1894 - bulkier and heavier than the 92 and stronger than most revolvers chambering the same cartridges but 10,000psi less strong but still good to 40,000psi.

3. Modern Henry Big Boy - probably somewhere between 1 and 2 but largely unknown.

4. Winchester 1873 - the toggle action is the weakest and while Brian Pearce says the .45's are good to 21,000psi, I wouldn't push my luck with one.

5. Winchester 1860/1866 - the brass frame toggle actions are the weakest available and should never be used with anything but standard loads.


Rifle cartridge
1. Winchester 1895 - the only traditional levergun to house cartridges like the .30-06. The .405 can be loaded to match the legendary .450/.400NE. Nuff said.

2. Winchester 1886 - John Browning's masterpiece, it's robust and strong and can nearly take the same pressure as the Ruger #1. It can handle the largest of levergun cartridges like the .50-110 and .50Alaskan.

3. Winchester 1894 Big Bore - the reinforced receiver adds strength where it is needed most.

4/5/6. Marlin 1895/336/Winchester 1894 - a step down in strength but by far the most popular. Same receiver used as the model 1895 and the 336. The Winchester 1894 can be considered equal.

7. Winchester 1876 - beautiful rifles but the weakest of the bunch. Still want one in .50-95.


EDIT: Got distracted while posting above, edited to add the 1876.

^^^ What he said.

As I've researched lever-actions, usually spurred by a recent purchase, I've found what he said to be true... and his breakdown needs to be a sticky somewhere.

As a die-hard Marlin 1894 shooter, I've only recently come to understand the differences with the '92 action... which now has me lusting for one in .41MAG, something that will probably never come to fruition.

I haven't had my Marlin 336W 30-30 but a few months.

when i hunt deer i use a marlin 336 in 35 rem. been doing so since the late 60's. out to 200 meters it will knock them dead. no reason in my area to use anything else unless it is a 30-30. no need for a 300 win mag when the longest shot is 75 meters. don't need a scope the buck horn sight work for me.

I have Three 30-30 rifles, two Marlins and one Winchester. I like them both for different reasons. I like the light wiegt and slim profile of the Winchester 94. And I made my first 30-30 deer kill a couple of weeks ago. It worked as expected. I like the easy cleaning of the Marlins and the simple scope set up. Both seem to be equally accurate. At least good enough for 150 yard deer hunting.

I have a 35 Remington Marlin I bought last year. I haven't hunted with it but compared to the 30-03 its a beast. And handloading can bump the power up to around 2100-2200 FPS over the 1960fps listed in the ammo catalogs.

I don't have a Henry but sure wouldn't pass on a deal on one because of the tube loading system. I just sold my Marlin 32 mag that was a tube loader and as far as I am concerned it is a non issue. And I have read nothing but good about them except for the weight. But even my Marlins are pretty chunky. Most lever guns are not featherweight rifles. They are made from dense wood and good ole' steel and built to last.

I have other levers in 357, 44 mag and 22LR. All Marlins. All great shooters. I am partial to the Marlins but as far as I know there are no bad levers on the market. And don't forget the Mossberg. Its not mentioned much but its out there.

CraigC said:

Winchester 1895 - the only traditional levergun to house cartridges like the .30-06.

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BLR? Though I guess that might not be considered "traditional."

Not at all traditional and that's part of the reason I excluded it. Partly because they don't interest me. Partly because discussions of strength don't really apply. Their strength is not in question because they are only chambered in cartridges that are already loaded to their full potential. Unlike relics of the blackpowder era like the .45Colt and .45-70.

IlikeSA said:

I am always just curious what is meant by a 1892 and a 1886 and so on. I am somewhat aware of the history, having studied the Civil War. I am curious to increase my knowledge so that I understand what others are talking about when they are mentioning the numbers and debating the designs.

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Howdy

Throughout most of firearms history, technological leaps forward had been mostly centered around improving the means of igniting the powder in a firearm. From the primitive Handgonnes of the 14th Century, up through Match Locks, Wheel Locks, Flint Locks, and finally Percussion Locks, it was all about making a more reliable system for firing the firearm. Although there were a few attempts at breech loaders during this time, the great majority of firearms were muzzle loaders. Meaning that for a quick repeat shot, without a second barrel, or the cylinder of a Cap & Ball revolver, one had to take the time to load powder, ram a projectile down the bore, and prime the lock. A seasoned soldier during the American Revolution could get off three aimed shots in a minute, and by the time of the Civil War that rate of fire had not been improved on much.

Enter the self contained cartridge. Pretty much at the mid point of the 19th Century, the concept of self contained cartridges became practical. They consisted of a pre-measured powder charge and projectile contained within a metal case. Most also had a primer of some sort attached. I am not speaking about the type of paper cartridge that had come earlier, where a powder charge and ball were wrapped in paper. I am talking about the self contained metallic cartridge.There were a variety of ignition systems; Rimfire, Centerfire, Pin Fire, Teat Fire, and probably a few more that I am not remembering right now.

The point is, with the development of self contained metallic cartridges, repeating firearms first became practical.

Around 1852, Daniel Wesson and Horace Smith formed their first partnership to produce a repeating lever action firearm. They were improving on the ideas of Hunt and Jennings before them. What they came up with was a small firearm, in both pistol and rifle configuration that used a lever to mechanically feed a new round into the chamber every time the lever was actuated. These firearms eventually became known as the Volcanic repeaters, because of their rate of fire. Unfortunately the Rocket Ball ammunition they used was under powered, and the Volcanic company was not financially successful.

https://winchestercollector.org/models/volcanic-rifles-pistols/




During the time Smith and Wesson were still running the Volcanic Company, an investor named Oliver Winchester came along. He was a successful entrepreneur from New Haven CT who had made a sizeable amount of money in the clothing manufacturing industry. He was looking for opportunities to invest in emerging technologies and repeating firearms were just the ticket. Winchester eventually bought Smith and Wesson out and they went on to start a new company manufacturing revolvers. Winchester hired a firearms designer named Benjamin Tyler Henry to go over and improve upon the Volcanic design. The first thing Henry did was design a new cartridge, which became known as the 44 Henry Rimfire cartridge.This was a copper cased rimfire round holding about 26 grains of Black Powder and topped with a 216 grain bullet. Not a barn stomper by modern standards, but much more potent than the anemic 31 and 41 caliber Rocket Ball ammo of the Volcanic firearms. Once the new cartridge had been designed, Henry designed a new rifle to shoot it.

The following photos are of my Italian manufactured Iron Frame 1860 Henry. Very faithful to the original design, except the frame and carrier have been slightly lengthened to accommodate the longer 44-40 round. The first of these were chambered for the old 44 Henry rimfire round, but since the Henry round is no longer commercially available they are now chambered for 45 Colt and 44-40. Although most Henry rifles had a frame made of gun metal, a form of bronze, some of the very early ones had iron frames.






The Henry's barrel and magazine were machined from one solid bar of steel. There was a slot running the length of the underside of the magazine and a tab attached to the follower projected though that slot.

The side loading gate had not been developed yet. The Henry was loaded by pulling the follower all the way forward and then rotating the sleeve at the front of the barrel about 90 degrees to expose the end of the magazine. Cartridges were loaded into the exposed hole, the barrel sleeve was rotated back into position and the follower was lowered to contact the rounds in the magazine. Because of the slot running the length of the magazine, and the need to access follower tab, the Henry rifle did not have a wooden fore end.






Magazine capacity was 15 rounds. Just like the earlier Volcanic firearms, when the lever was cycled a fresh round was fed into the chamber and the hammer was cocked for the next shot. Unlike the Volcanic, since the Henry used a conventional rimfire round instead of the old Rocket Ball ammo, an extractor was used to pull out and eject the spent cartridges when the lever was cycled.

During the 19th Century many firearms manufacturers used the year a particular model was introduced as its Model Name. Winchester had changed the name of the Volcanic company to New Haven Arms Company, but Winchester honored Henry by naming the rifle after him. The Henry rifle was patented in 1860, but although actual production did not get started until 1862, it is generally referred to as the 1860 Henry rifle.




The Henry rifle was only in production until 1866. That year Henry and Winchester had a falling out. Winchester renamed the company after himself, and the Improved Henry, or Winchester Model 1866 was introduced.

One of the drawbacks of the Henry design was the slot running the length of the magazine. Dirt and contamination could enter the magazine through this slot. Reloading pretty much required standing the rifle straight up to drop rounds down the magazine. Not good from a military perspective. And without a wooden fore end, the magazine could get too hot to hold. (I can testify that shooting a magazine full of Black Powder 44-40 rounds the barrel/magazine does get very hot on a hot summer day).

The Model 1866 Winchester still fired the 44 Henry rimfire round. But Nelson King's patented loading gate was added to the right side of the frame. This made reloading much simpler, the shooter did not have to stand up, and because there was no longer a slot under the magazine a wooden fore end could be added to protect the shooter's hands from the heat. The Model 1866 still had a yellow gun metal receiver. The barrel and magazine of the 1866 were no longer machined from one bar of steel, the magazine was a separate tube suspended below the barrel. This reduced the over all weight of the rifle by about 1 pound.

https://winchestercollector.org/models/model-1866/



In 1873 Winchester released the latest in lever action rifle designs. The Model 1873 was chambered for a new cartridge, known as the 44 Winchester Center Fire, or 44WCF for short. Also known as the 44-40. This cartridge was a bit longer than the 44 Henry Rimfire cartridge and carried about 40 grains of Black Powder under a 200 grain bullet, for a significant increase in power. Because of the more powerful ammunition the frame of the early Model 1873 rifles were made of iron, not gun metal. Later, the frames were made of steel. Unlike the Henry and 1866 models, the Model 1873 featured easily removable side plates on the frame, which could be removed for cleaning the mechanism by just removing one screw.

Winchester started a marketing campaign about the Model 1873 calling it "The Gun That Won the West." Which may or may not have been actually true.

This 38-40 Model 1873 was made in 1887.






Toggle Links

All the above lever guns used what is called the Toggle Link mechanism. Think of the toggle links on top of a Luger, except picture them upside down. Or as Winchester enthusiasts like to say, the Luger is the one with the upside down toggles.

I have removed one side plate from this Uberti 1873 to show how the toggle links worked. In this photo the links are extended, locking the bolt in battery.
Notice the three pivot points of the links and how they more or less line up in a line.






There was a pivot point at the top of the lever, linked to the middle pivot of the links. In this photo, the lever has been pushed all the way forward. This has folded the links, retracting the bolt. The firing pin extension has pushed the hammer all the way back to cock it. And the lifting lever has raised the brass carrier to its upper position. You can see carrier extending over the top of the frame. When the lever is pulled back again, the hammer remains cocked, the firing pin extension moves forward, and the bolt shoves the cartridge in the carrier into the chamber. At the last moment, the carrier pops down again to the lower position ready to receive a new cartridge.






A lot has been written about how weak the Toggle Link system was. It is true that with a Toggle Link rifle there are no locking lugs as on most modern rifles. The only thing keeping the bolt from flying back when a cartridge fired was the fact that the links were lined up straight. In fact, when in battery the links were in a slightly over cammed position. However, if the trigger was pulled before the links were completely lined up, the links would fold just like your knees would fold if somebody pushed them forward from behind. In this case, the bolt would fly back under recoil, the lever would whack the shooter's hand severely, and the firing pin extension just might leave the gun in the general direction of the shooter's eye. That is why Winchester included the lever safety early on in Model 1873 production. In the above photo the two arrows are pointing to the lever safety. It is actually one piece, held down by a spring. In the condition shown, the part of the lever safety directly behind the trigger is preventing the trigger from moving back. When the lever is closed, it will push up the rear part of the safety, causing the front part to rise up clear of the trigger. No, this is not a modern lawyer driven safety, Winchester added it to the design sometime in the 1880s.

It should also be observed that with the Model 1873 at least, the frame had been skeletonized to permit easy access when the side plates were removed. The side plates added no strength to the frame. However with modern steels, these designs are perfectly safe to shoot with SAAMI spec cartridges that do not exceed the maximum pressures dictated by SAAMI Specs. In fact, a few years ago Uberti began chambering their 1873 model for 44 Magnum.




So far, all of these rifles have chambered and fired relatively short cartridges. In the world of Cowboy Action Shooting, we describe these as Pistol Caliber cartridges. All this means is these cartridges are short enough in length to be chambered in a convention revolver. In 1876 Winchester introduced a longer version of Model 1873, called the Model 1876. This rifle had a longer frame and was capable of chambering and firing more powerful 'rifle' cartridges such as the Winchester 45-75 cartridge as well as several other cartridges. The 45-75 was a bottlenecked cartridge slightly shorter than the Government 45 -70 cartridge, but it was developed to duplicate the ballistics of the 45-70. the Model 1876 was never chambered for 45-70 because the round was a little bit too long.




In 1883 T.G. Bennett, vice president and general manager of the Winchester Repeating Arms Company, made an unannounced trip to Ogden Utah. One of his salesmen had come across an intriguing 45-70 single shot rifle, and Bennett wanted to buy the rights to manufacture it. The rifle had been designed by John Moses Browning, a 28 year old young man. Browning had patented his design in 1879, and had set up a small manufacturing company to produce it. The rifle was so superior to any other single shot on the market that Bennett wanted to secure the rights to it before any of his competitors did. A price was agreed on for the rights to manufacture the rifle, and it was soon produced as the Winchester Single Shot Model 1885. During their negotiations, Browning had hinted to Bennett that he had the design for a repeating rifle that could take the powerful 45-70 pretty much worked out in his head. Bennett was very interested. This began a relationship between Browning and Winchester that was to continue for the next nineteen years. Browning continued doing what he liked best, designing firearms, and Winchester bought the rights for every one of his patents. Most were never manufactured, but Winchester bought them all anyway, to keep their competitors from acquiring the rights to any of Browning's ideas.

The repeating rifle that Browning had designed became the Winchester Model 1886.






The Model 1886 was big enough and strong enough for the 45-70 Government cartridge.






The '86 was a revolutionary design for the time. Gone were the Toggle Links of the old Winchester rifles. Instead the 1886 featured twin locking lugs that securely locked the bolt in battery when the lever was closed.






With the lever open, the locking lugs were pulled down out of the bolt, allowing the bolt to move backwards to cock the hammer.






Inside was a tilting carrier that raised a cartridge up out of the magazine so the bolt could shove it forward into the chamber when the lever was closed.






Eventually, in addition to 45-70, the Winchester Model 1886 was chambered for 45-90, 40-82, 40-65, 38-56, and 50-110 Express.





In 1892, Winchester released another Browning design, the Model 1892. Aside from some slight modifications to the mechanism, the Model 1892 was a scaled down version of the Model 1886.








The Model 1892 used the same basic two locking lug design as its big brother, the Model 1886.

The Model 1892 was meant to fill the same market niche as the Model 1873, even though the older rifle continued to be manufactured until 1923.

The Model 1892 was lighter and stronger than the Model 1873, and less expensive to manufacture.

The Model 1892 was chambered for 44-40, 38-40, 32-20, 25-20, and .218 Bee.

This photo shows the comparative sizes of the Model 1886 and 1892, along with the 45-70 cartridge the 1886 had been developed to shoot, and the 44-40 cartridge, the most popular chambering for the Model 1892.






In 1894 Winchester introduced the Browning designed Model 1894.






Originally developed for the Black Powder 32-40 and 38-55 rounds, the most popular chambering of the Model 1894 was the 30-30.

The 30-30 was the first commercially manufactured Smokeless powder sporting cartridge.



The locking lug for the Model 1894 was moved all the way to the rear of the bolt. Instead of two locking lugs, there was a single wide lug.






The bottom of the frame of the Model 1894 rotated down to pull the locking lug out of battery.


That's about it from me now regarding the tubular magazine Winchester lever rifles. I'm not interested in the box magazine lever guns.

I will add that some folks mention they would like to have a Winchester style lever rifle chambered for 45 Colt. Historically, the 45 Colt was never chambered in rifles. The main reason is the very small rim of the old 45 Colt rounds would not give a rifle extractor much to grab. It was not until the mid 1980s that Winchester finally chambered the a Model 1894 Trapper model for 45 Colt. Of course today, many lever guns are available chambered for 45 Colt, but it simply was not done in the 19th Century.

bluetopper said:

One of the best things Marlin ever done in my humble opinion was start offering their model 336 lever action rifle in 35 Remington caliber in 1953. Production has never stopped. An great old semi-auto caliber from 1908.

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I Was fortunate to find a 1956 336cs in 35rem. It is ballard rifling which goes along with me casting bullets. I've been told the later microgroove rifling doesn't like cast. I started with a 357 mag Dan Wesson and now I'm looking for a model 92 in 357 mag to compliment the revolver. What revolvers do you have?

I have to say many thanks to Driftwood Johnson for that outstanding post and the pictures as well. As stated, it is incredibly informative.


That post alone makes this thread worthy of "sticky" consideration. Great overall early history of the firearm type. Well done, sir.

Driftwood, fantastic photos and write-ups!

Not to be greedy, but you wouldn't happen to have the same interest in Marlins by chance?

Driftwood

Outstanding tutorial on Winchester lever actions! Fantastic photos too, especially of the inner workings of the various models!

I second the notion that this should have "sticky" status in the Rifle forum!

Marlinowners,com is my goto on levers. They have a subforum for other levers also.
I prefer Marlins but I have a BLR in .243 circa 1971 that is a nice one also.

Driftwood, I wanted to add my thanks for that great post. You got it all right (this from a long time Winchester fan)!!!
Nice pics too!

Marlin MicroGroove barrels shoot just fine with cast bullets.
Matching bullet diameter to bore diameter is essential.

For instance, the SAAMI spec for .44mag RIFLE barrels is .431”. Shoot a .429” cast bullet, don’t be surprised at poor accuracy and leading.

My Marlin/Glenfield M30 in .30/30 will shoot under 2moa with cast bullets sized to .311”. Size to .308 and they key-hole. My M336 in .35Rem insists on .360” minimum, preferably.361”. It shoots at least as well as my .338MX with a cast bullet which has Ballard style rifling.

Cast bullet 101; slug your barrel and size bullets accordingly!!! Preferably .001-.003” OVER bore diameter.

wanderinwalker said:

Not to be greedy, but you wouldn't happen to have the same interest in Marlins by chance?

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Sorry, I only have three Marlins. I don't know as much about them as I do Winchesters.

I bought this Model 1894 way back around 1975 or so. Found it in a local shop. It was chambered for a cartridge I had never heard of, called 44-40.






No idea what I paid for it back then, but I walked out of the shop with the rifle and two boxes of ammo.
I still have a couple of rounds left from one of those boxes.








I fired a bunch of rounds from it, then it sat unfired for about 25 years in the back of a closet.

I was going to sell it, but a friend told me about a sport called Cowboy Action Shooting, and he said the old Marlin would be OK.

I took it to my first match, fired one shot, and the gun jammed tight. Couldn't open the lever to eject the empty it. Had to bench the rifle and borrow another rifle to finish the match. Which also happened to be a Marlin 1894, but a little bit newer than mine.

When I got it home I got the spent case out and emptied the magazine somehow. I found a smith who could help with old guns.
It turned out the hook on the lever that pulled the block that locks the bolt had been worn to just about nothing over the years. The smith said everybody including the village blacksmith must have been inside that old gun at some point. He said somebody had even welded some bronze onto the lever to build up the hook at one point. He welded some steel on, and reshaped the hook to make it work fine again.






The caliber marking on the old Marlin is interesting. It simply says 44 W. I guess Marlin did not want to put 44 WCF of anything suggesting Winchester on it at the time.






The front sight is interesting too.There is a little ivoroid bead set into it. I think it may be an old Lyman sight.







The rear sight is as basic as it gets. Close examination reveals there is a separate insert in the blade. The screw was meant to allow the insert to be raised and lowered. However, the insert and the blade rusted together long ago, so I have never bothered to mess with it.






A bunch of years ago I looked up the serial number. Turns out the old girl was made in 1895. Not a drop of blue left on it, and plenty of pitting, but I don't care.
A few years ago one of our cowboy smiths went over it for me. He lightened the main spring a bit, and replaced the ejector spring. The bore is old and pitted, but the rifling is still strong, and she still shoots straight.
I'm glad I never sold it.

By the way, when I took it to the smith to unjam it he winced when I showed him the box of ammo I had shot through it. He was afraid those High Velocity rounds might have compressed the steel somewhat and ruined the headspacing. Turns out those rounds aren't really all that hot, and no damage was done. But these days, when I shoot the old girl I just shoot her with Black Powder loads.

Like I said, I only have three Marlins. Here are the other two. A Model 1894CS 357 Mag at top and a nice pre-microgroove Model 39A at the bottom.






P.S. Gotta love Marlins. Like somebody said before, just one screw to remove and you can take it down. Take out the lever screw and the lever comes off, then you can pull the bolt out the back. Makes it easy to clean from the breech with a cleaning rod. Can't do that with a Winchester, something is always in the way. Have to clean a Winchester from the muzzle, or from the breech with a bore snake.

P.P.S. I have lots of gun reference books, but it turns out I don't have anything about Marlins. Ordered Brophy's book about Marlins and it shipped Saturday.

I hunt with the classic Winchester 94 in 30-30. Everything else is a wanna be. Marlins are ok, but not as good to carry in the woods. They are wider and heavier with no balance. I don't know why anyone would use a pistol or blackpowder cartridge in a modern rifle but I guess some folks like them or are cowboy shooters. If I wanted another Lever I would get a BLR. Not old fashion enough for some folks but that's why they make different kinds.

d2wing said:

I don't know why anyone would use a pistol or blackpowder cartridge in a modern rifle but I guess some folks like them or are cowboy shooters.

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Some of them were actually specifically designed for Black Powder.

I think most were. 1894 was made in .32-40 while they were figuring smokeless out.