Rifle Primers and Powder

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film495

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I was thinking of getting some powder and primers for 30-30 and 30-06, really just to have it in my supply. I've only ever used Win 231 Powder with CCI Small Pistol Primers for handgun cartridges.

What is a basic powder and primer combination I could get for these cartridges. Not looking for fancy, looking for staple type components that are long lived and have a good reputation. I'd like to have the same powder and primer combination for both if that is realistic.
 
looks like Large Rifle Primer and Win 760 would work for both. any recommendations to support this or possible steer me in another direction?

any benefit to Winchester Primers vs. CCI? I have no real preference, just wondering if keeping the powder and primer to the same brand adds any benefit?
 
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Large rifle primers are needed for both. To share powders you would have to be using heavy bullets in the 30-30 (170 grain) and the lighter bullets in 30-06 (110-165 grain) that would be imr. 3031and 4064 the loads would not be the same
 
looks like Large Rifle Primer and Win 760 would work for both. any recommendations to support this or possible steer me in another direction?

any benefit to Winchester Primers vs. CCI? I have no real preference, just wondering if keeping the powder and primer to the same brand adds any benefit?
760 and winchester large primers will be great all around for both cartridges, I'm a winchester guy and love it. Check hodgdon data site for loading 06 and 30/30, they have quite a few basic loads for both using that combo...have fun
 
What is a basic powder and primer combination I could get for these cartridges. Not looking for fancy, looking for staple type components that are long lived and have a good reputation. I'd like to have the same powder and primer combination for both if that is realistic.
Here is a pic of my basic/ minimalist inventory, covers everything I play around with and I'm a Winchester fan, cci and win primers are all I have. But winchester doesnt make plated anymore so I use alot of cci, I mostly load nickel cases.
20200412_070744.jpg
 
I was thinking of getting some powder and primers for 30-30 and 30-06, really just to have it in my supply. I've only ever used Win 231 Powder with CCI Small Pistol Primers for handgun cartridges.

What is a basic powder and primer combination I could get for these cartridges. Not looking for fancy, looking for staple type components that are long lived and have a good reputation. I'd like to have the same powder and primer combination for both if that is realistic.

I have run my own accuracy and velocity tests on the 30-30 Win and 30-06. The best American stick powders in the 30-30 were IMR 3031, IMR 4064 and an honorable mention to IMR 4895. It used to be IMR 3031 was a long stick powder but the jug I purchased is short cut. IMR 3031 is a tad faster than IMR 4895, and IMR 4895 is a tad faster than IMR 4064. IMR 4064 is a long stick powder and does not throw well.

In my lever action, I was accuracy limited to a narrow range of velocities, which was 2100 to 2200 fps with a 170 grain bullet. Velocities above or below was poor, and powders that gave the tightest extreme spreads shot the roundest groups.

In the 30-06, IMR 3031 used to be a popular target powder, but target shooting priorities accuracy over velocity. IMR 4895 was the powder used in the WW2 M1 Garand service cartridges and NM ammunition and I think it is an outstanding powder up to 175 grains bullet weights, which will do 99% of everything on this continent. You might be able to get a bit more velocity out of IMR 4064, hard to say the accuracy is all that better, but charges will have to be weighed.

I consider IMR 4895 one of the most flexible powders around, followed by IMR 4064. There are a series of 4895 powders that are basically indistinguishable over a chronograph. That is IMR 4895, AA2495 and H4895. Buy by price.

In terms of primers, buy by price. The lifetime of primers is essentially "infinite". If you store primers in a hot oven, or in an solvent bath, they won't last long. But in the original wrapper, primers are very stable. And I don't think the brand really matters that much once you develop a load. I am still using 20 year old Federal rifle, 30 year old Winchester small pistol, large pistol, and small rifle and large rifle. I have 20 year old CCI large rifle, small rifle, large pistol, small pistol. And they all shoot great. There are differences you might notice over a chronograph, but I am going to say, it is impossible to know if the differences are by brand, or if the variances are due to the differences between lots.

Primer characteristics, primer mixes, anvil shapes, distances, cup thicknesses, are all subject to change. I was very upset when Winchester made their WLR and WSR more sensitive around 2000. I stopped using the brass color WSP because those primers pierced at loads that never bothered the nickle plated WSR. Anyway, I would encourage hoarding, time the market and buy a bunch, and use them as needed.
 
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I loaded a bunch of 30-30 with I-3031 with 150 and 170 grain bullets, CCI LRP. Worked through several different loads, settled on best accuracy somewhere around 30 to 31 grains for the 150 grain bullets from 20 inch barrel Model 94 carbine. 30-30 rifles are all so different, so your results will probably be different than mine or anyone else's. Anyway, after loading and shooting tons of that, I tried CFE223 and never looked back. Meters very well and repeatably accurately in the Dillon progressive press, and a load of 36 grains for the 150 grain bullets and 34 grains for the 170 grain bullets produced more accurate ammo than I ever got with I-3031.

I don't load 30-06, but I do load for 7.7x58 Japanese Arisaka and for that I-3031 is generally regarded well, but I don't use it because it is subject to ammo meltdown due to the wide-open chambers in the Arisaka T99 rifles. I have had very good success, even in sub-freezing shooting with I-4064 and Winchester large rifle magnum primers. I have a scout scope on my rifle, and that rifle is far more accurate at 200 yards than most people give the Arisaka's credit for even at 50 or 100 yards. 30-06 is not too far off from the 7.7x58, but obviously it is a different situation so you may get different results.
 
I like to keep things simple, so I use H4895 for all (4) of my rifle loads. I load (worked up to) 30 grains behind a 170 grain bullet in .30-30, and 49 grains behind a 150 Hornady SST (duplicates factory velocity and best accuracy in my rifle) in my .30/06. I try to stick with CCI LRP, but I am not as picky on them.
 
I was flipping through some reloading manuals last night and Speer and Nosler manuals showed 760 with all the loads using a Large Rifle Primer - Magnum, if I was reading it right. They all had a * next to the powder weight, and down below is said that * indicated use of a Magnum primer. The Speer was a little dated #9, and the Nosler was newer but no new by any means.
 
I'll echo what Slam and others said... I really like IMR3031 for the .30-30, and it would work in a pinch for the .30-06. I load my M1 Garand load with IMR4895, which I consider the 'Unique' of rifle powders... you can quite literally use it in almost everything. It certainly works in the .30-06, and very likely would do well enough in the .30-30.

Putting my money where my mouth is... I recently loaded a test lot of 50 .30-30's with IMR4895 and a 170grn cast bullet for my Savage 99, I'll be shooting them next weekend next to my standard load of IMR3031 for a comparison.

As far as primers, I'm getting away from Winchester primers, I'm making the transition back to 100% CCI primers here on out.
 
After looking at other posters replies, and checking Hodgdon’s load data, I would suggest trying IMR-3031 over W-760. W-760/H-414 is a little slow for best performance in the 30-30 Win., and also would strongly recommend magnum primers if used in cold weather. Honestly, I have never tried IMR-3031, but it has long been a recommended powder for the 30-30, and with lighter bullets (under 180 gr) would appear to work reasonably well in the ‘06. With the newer short cut version, it should meter better as well. The main reason I never tried 3031was that it had very long kernels of powder that measured poorly in a powder measure. I guess I will have to buy a pound of the new stuff just to see how well it works for myself.
Full disclosure: I load Hodgdon Leverevolution exclusively for my son’s 30-30. It provides an additional 100 FPS or more with 150 gr bullets.
For his buddy’s 30-06, it is Hodgdon H-414 and 165 gr Nosler Partitions.
 
I guess I should clarify... my only frame of reference for the .30-06 is in the Garand, if I were loading for a bolt gun or such, I would start with IMR4064, which is what I use in my .308 Savage bolt gun.

Further, when you think about it, generically speaking, you get roughly 150-200 rifle charges out of a pound of powder, that’s not a huge amount. If you are buying powder by the pound, it would make more sense to just buy a pound each of whatever your rifles decide they like. I’ve given a good deal of thought to the ‘universal powder’ concept, and in fact, bought 32#’s of IMR4895, but at the end of the day, specific powders work better. Yes, I can load everything from 5.56mm, through the .30’s, the .348WCF, and even the .45-70 with IMR4895... but it’s not the best I can do.
 
I may get other powders, but for now I did opt to put in an order for a pound of the Win 760 from Midway, they didn't have any Winchester Large Rifle Primers, and since my load books said use CCI Magnum Primers, I went with the Federal Large Rifle Primers because that is what they had. I would just be reloading factory ammo, and found these bullets, which are probably more ideal for 30-30, but could be made to work for 30-06 as well. I think I have a few boxes of bullets and such from my Dad's old stuff that are good, but wanted something that I knew what it was and since I was putting in an order -- Sierra Pro-Hunter Bullets 30 Caliber (308 Diameter) 170 Grain Jacketed Flat Nose Box of 100 // not looking for perfection, just looking to get set up to get started and take it from there

The 760 is not the best powder for 30-30 and if I load those bullets for 30-06 have to keep the velocity down below 2,500 fps - so, compromises all the way around to start. Just looking for a start, refining things will be after I get some experience with this and see how things work out with this stuff.
 
I bet I can't find load data for those bullets to keep it under 2,500 fps with that powder for a 30-06 load, so - I'll have to dig around in the box of supplies I have and see what bullets are there - probably several that will work, but I'll have to inventory it to really see.
 
When you try to use the same powder for 2 or more cartridges you often end up with one, if not both, under performing. Especially 2 that are as different as 30-30 and 30-06. It doesn't cost a dime more to buy 2 lbs of different powder than 2 lbs of the same powder.
 
Part of the fun of reloading for me is trying many different components and tuning the best load for each rifle.

Having done that, I still keep coming back to the same powers because of their consistency and wide accuracy nodes, namely H4895 and Varget. Both of those would work for your applications
 
Another for 3031 in the 30-30 and I use H 4895 for 30-06 loads. There are a couple new propellants out there I might try one day but I am well stocked at the moment.
 
I worked up loads with IMR4895 in both those calibers and a range of bullets. H4895 is similar but not identical. I figured if the military uses 4895 in ‘06, it’s been a bit proven.
There are others powders that will work in both and you may find your rifles favor certain ones. For primers, for hunting rounds or in the lower hundreds of yards distances, I’ve found no difference in Win, Fed or CCI, or the match versions. Good luck!
 
H4895 is similar but not identical.

True that.

I had a leftover 1/2# of H4895 and decided to burn it up in my .30-06 M1 loads. Normally, I load 47grn IMR4895 under any 150grn bullet, but I didn't want to go through the trouble of working up a load for H4895... it was only 1/2#, so I just dropped the charge to 46grn H4895 and loaded it up. Truth being stranger than fiction... 1grn LESS powder gave me more velocity, all else being equal... so, no, they are not the same. Even with Hodgdon consolidating it's powder line (i.e. W296/H110) I don't believe IMR and H 4895's are the same powder today.
 
In addition to what I said in post #8 above, I find CFE223 meters very nicely in my Dillon XL650 powder measure. I tried the I-3031 and I-4064 in the measure, weighed a series of 20 charges of each and got results all over the place. I bought the RCBS Chargemaster Lite and I use it dispense exact charges for each and every round of 7.7x58 that I make. I still use the Dillon XL650 press, but for my 7.7x58 toolhead I replaced the powder measure with an aluminum funnel and adaptor from Area419.com and I use that with the Dillon powder die. It is slow going to dispense and load the I-4064 this way compared to the powder measure with cfe223 for the 30-30, but it is not too bad and I like that I am making ammo with exact charges in each and every round.
 
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