Anyone else use 2400 in 38?

RougeLeader1 said:

CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The High Road, nor the staff of THR assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.

One of my favorite loads for 38 Special is a 158 LSWC over 11.0 gn of 2400. Doing the math out, this is a... heavy.... 38 load. I first read this from one of the very old Speer books (#7 I believe) back when I was a very stupid and very naïve reloader. (I guess that implies that I am no longer????) I use this in my 357s and in my 4'' 10-4 which takes it like a champ.

Do any of you use 2400 for 38? If so, how do you like it? I know it gets really dirty as you bring down the pressure, and even slower burning as that pressure curve drops. Even so I personally like how it measures and appreciate its consistency due to high case-fill.

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I dont mostly because I'm cheap. In 38 I use unique because I get good performance for half the powder. If I only had one I guess I would make it work.

My guess is by the time you get 2400 to burn clean you will be in +P territory, I'd rather not beat up a good gun.

RougeLeader1 said:

Have you run into metering issues? I tried unique a few times but never quite dialed it in to satisfaction.

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I run it mostly through a chargemaster. That's all I had for the first six months of my reloading. I now have a measure but I spend most of my time testing so it's only used for bulk blamo. Tight group, ramshot silhouette and hp38 is all I have thrown. Loading pistol on a chargemaster is waaaaay slower. I also feel much more comfortable with hot loads that are all weighed.

I would not use 2400 in the .38 Special, it's just tools a powder. I tried it once using old data and it was smokey and left a lot of flakes because of a poor burn. We are very luck now because there are dozens of powders available to us unlike "back in the day." The slowest I go is with HS-6, AA#5, Power Pistol and the like and that's for +P pressures. I stick with W231 or W244 in the .38 Special.

11-12 grs. of 2400 with a 158gr. SWC is one of my pet loads in my 357. That has got to be a pretty warm load in a 38.

I have always used a faster powder in 38. 2400 is my 357 mag powder.

Walkalong said:

No, 2400 is not suitable for .38 Spl pressures, and with all the wonderful .357 revolvers out there I see absolutely no need to overload .38 Spl that may get into the wrong gun and hurt someone.

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That, and all the other good powders for 38.

Nope. I like 2400 in my rifle cast bullet loads. I have shot it a good bit out of the magnum revolver rounds, but find I can achieve the same or similar velocities with less Unique. Also I find it leaves a good bit of unburnt powder in my guns no matter what I do.

RougeLeader1 said:

CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The High Road, nor the staff of THR assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.

One of my favorite loads for 38 Special is a 158 LSWC over 11.0 gn of 2400. Doing the math out, this is a... heavy.... 38 load. I first read this from one of the very old Speer books (#7 I believe) back when I was a very stupid and very naïve reloader. (I guess that implies that I am no longer????) I use this in my 357s and in my 4'' 10-4 which takes it like a champ.

Do any of you use 2400 for 38? If so, how do you like it? I know it gets really dirty as you bring down the pressure, and even slower burning as that pressure curve drops. Even so I personally like how it measures and appreciate its consistency due to high case-fill.

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I tried it once decades ago and it performed poorly in my RBH, not much better in my Marlin 1894. 2400 needs more elbow room than a .38Spl case has to offer. Works real good in .357 magnum, though. The longer case gives it just that little bit more to do what it does well.

Look up Skeeter Skelton loads for .38Special.

Before there was such a thing as a "magnum handgun" Hercules #2400 was a rifle powder developed for the .22Hornet. Just something to think about before loading a 19th century black-powder cartridge with a 20th century rifle powder.

2400 & HS6 to dirty when I tried them.

I like/loaded Unique, 700X, Bullseye , With 158 gr lswc.

Always Eject shell with muzzle up.

View attachment 999088

In Skeeter Skelton's day it was not uncommon to put up .357 loads in .38 cases, as apparently .38 cases were more available and less expensive than .357. That really isn't the situation these days (well, technically, these days you can't get either case, but you know what I mean) so I personally see little reason for hotrodding the .38 Special.

Now, if a fellow is loading for a 38/44...

Skeeter Skelton used to use 13.5 grs of 2400 in a 38 Special case, in his 357 Magnums. I use that load in a 357 case, and it is a full power load in the larger case. They used to do that stuff back then, because they did not really know the case pressures.

Alliant 2400 can be downloaded, but I don't know if it is safe. Lesser velocities don't reveal "funnies" with the pressure curve. You want a smooth pressure curve, and if the powder does not burn nice and even, there is the potential, however small, of an over pressure event. It is better to use a faster burning powder, and stay within standard pressure loads, for standard cartridges. Just as it is better, not to try to reach magnum velocities, with a fast burning powder. You want to leave yourself some margin for error.

this is a great load in the 38 Special

Can't say I ever thought of 2400 & 38 Spl.
Very interesting.
I think you just gave me a new load to play with.

Gotta be careful to label the box though.
I have several 38s that I won't use with high-end loads.
( 1915 Colt Army, a 38 derringer, a 38 J frame...)

I have used 2400 in the .38spl for a long time. 11gr and any 150 to 170gr swc as long as it is designed to not have too much inside the case. I recently tried VV N-110 as well I started at 10, 10.5 and finally settled on 11gr. I shoot these from a M15-3 and a Ruger LCR. I don't always use this slow of a powder I shoot PP, VV N-340, 3N37, Unique and Universal. I don't load light target .38s. The modern powders I use are in newer manuals and in published on line data. My first manual was the Lyman #45 and 11gr is in that manual. I don't use these loads every day but I keep them in my farm truck for reaching out with my 15, so I don't have to go back to the house for a bigger gun......

One other point regarding Skeeter and the .38 Special... His favorite bullet in both the .38 and the .357 was Lyman's 358156GC.


Those unfamiliar with it should note the double crimp grooves. Skeeter and others would use the lower groove when loading the .38 Special, thus increasing the amount of powder space and decreasing pressure. The upper groove was for the .357 case.

I haven't done any measuring - that might be an interesting project for this evening, if no one else has the data - but I wouldn't be surprised to learn that there is a correlation between the extra space created by crimping in the lower groove and the amount of 2400 that space can hold. Or to put it in simpler terms, I'll bet the distance between the two crimp grooves is pretty close to the difference between the case lengths of the two cartridges.

If no one has reported back by the time I get home, I will take the measurements and post the results.

Got home and did some weighing and measuring. First a little more backstory, from Skeeter:

"The 358156 has two crimping grooves. The upper is used when loading .357 cases and standard velocity .38 Special loads. When seated out to the lower crimp groove in .38 Special cases, more powder space is gained, and a very powerful load of 13.5 gr. of 2400 may be used in these cases, giving around 1150 fps. I emphasize that these heavy .38 Special cartridges should only be fired from .357 Magnum revolvers or from .45 frame .38 Special sixguns such as the Colt SA, Colt New Service, or S&W .38-44. While I have fired this round from K-frame Smith & Wessons and Colt Officers’ Models on occasion with no visible ill effects, these lighter revolvers were not designed for such heavy loads, and I definitely do not recommend the practice."

In a different article, he wrote

"Below is a table of my favorite .357 loads, separated into three categories. The first two sections, light loads and medium loads, can be put up in either .38 Special or .357 cases. I generally load these in .38 Special cases so they can be readily identified and also because .38 brass is cheaper. The third section, heavy loads, should be assembled in sound, clean .357 cases."

I can't reproduce the table here, but it can be seen at http://www.darkcanyon.net/MyFriend_The357.htm.

The takeaway is that with the Lyman 358156 and 2400, his medium load was 13.5 grains and his heavy load was 15 grains, 1.5 grains more.

Measuring the difference between the two crimp grooves shows about .090 difference. I filled a .38 case mostly full of 2400 and measured from the powder to the case mouth. Then I added 1.5 grains and measured again. That's obviously a tricky measurement, and there was some confirmation bias at work too, but it's not stretching the truth to say that it was about a .090 difference.

I'm still not going to put .357 loads into .38 cases unless I have no other choice, but it does appear to me that following Skeeter's advice is perfectly rational.

In your measurements--- Did you compare the distance between the two crimping grooves and the amount that the .357mag case is longer than the .38spl case ?

nofendertom said:

In your measurements--- Did you compare the distance between the two crimping grooves and the amount that the .357mag case is longer than the .38spl case ?

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I was hoping no one would bring that up - I was kind of wrong about it. The .357 case is typically .135 longer.

I have thought of trying 2400 in 38sp. Herco or blue dot might be better suited for swc and power pistol hard to beat for jacketed. Back in the day I tried some alcan al8,another slow burning powder and had a lot of unburned powder. Flakes were everywhere but it was surprisingly accurate.