357 Magnum 158 LSWC - Replacing 2400 with Unique

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Shrinkmd

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I am out of 2400 at the moment, and I have Unique. I was shooting my 158 gr lswc with 13.5 to 14.5 of 2400 with a Federal SP primer in Starline cases. Also, for what it's worth, these are being shot out of a 4" barrel.

What loading of Unique will approximate the same velocity as the 13.5 gr 2400 load? I'm looking for a good medium magnum, not max loading. Just enough to remind me it isn't a 38+P.

Although those 14.5 gr loads are fun. Gotta get more 2400...
 
Go to Alliant Powder's web site. The information you are looking for will be there.

You will not safely duplicate the 2400 load with Unique.
 
I am not taking responsibility for your experimentation, i take no responsibility for any info you try to replicate.

With that said, I've had success with 6.5 grains and also 7.0 grains of unique behind a 158g lead swc. After that case extraction got a little sticky. They are noticbly lighter than 14g of 2400 though, but deffinately magnum velocity. I would call it a 38 +p+.
 
Unique being a faster powder will not be able to safely duplicate the velocity generated by 2400 in that application. Unique will reach the pressure limits before you reach the velocities generated by 2400.
 
Unique will reach the pressure limits before you reach the velocities generated by 2400.
Click to expand...

I know, but since the 14.5 load is not max (Lyman says 15.5 gr of 2400 with their 160 gr bullet) I was sorta hoping that a warmer Unique load might come close enough. Also, in a short barrel, I thought that quite a bit of 2400 gets "wasted" because it doesn't have the room to burn up.

I chronographed some of my Montana gold 125 jhp's 16.0 gr 2400 loads out of my Marlin 1894c, and wow were those suckers cooking.

I'll have to try some 6.5 gr loads. Thanks
 
Also, in a short barrel, I thought that quite a bit of 2400 gets "wasted" because it doesn't have the room to burn up.
Click to expand...

I have always felt that a myth. The powder that gets the most velocity out of a 6" bbl will get it from a 2"bbl too.

I am fond of 2400, using it in my 357 and 45 colt loadings. Having used Unique I can say that I would never switch to it from 2400.
 
those two powders are in different ballparks, unique = cowboy 357 loads,
2400 = 357 mag loads to milder loads
 
That isn't exactly true.

Unique can be loaded much hotter then "Cowboy" loads.

It will come within about 100-150 FPS of matching 2400 velocity with max .357 loads.

It is about an ideal powder choice for what the OP is wanting to do, which was to load a slightly reduced load closely matching 13.5 graains 2400.

I'd try 6.5 Unique..

rc
 
I think you are going to come up about 250fps short of 2400 with Unique. Alliant's web site shows 6 grains of Unique at 1034fps. I forget what weight of Unique I loaded 158 grain lswc at, but liked the accuracy and recoil of Bullseye better.

Having said that, I would just go out and buy another pound of 2400. ;)
 
Alliants website is using Speer soft-swaged bullets.
The max load is cut-off at the velocity level the swaged bullets will withstand, not by pressure limitations.

Older Lyman data says a 158 grain #358156 MAX load is 8.0 grains giving 1,250 FPS.
Same bullet with 15.0 grains 2400 gives 1270 FPS.

rc
 
Hi RC, thanks for the info. I will work up a batch and chronograph them once the weather improves (unless I can convince the indoor range people to let me set it up)

Which Lyman edition is that data from? Any realistic concerns that the "new and improved cleaner burning" Unique is actually any different than the one from when that Lyman data came? Was the 2400 data the same as the current 49th edition?

There is so much controversy about if the downloading of 357 is really based on better pressure data, or is it over lawyering or making loads which won't rattle apart a j frame ultralight 357?

If the loads are as accurate I would have no problem using half the powder for the same result. 1200fps with a 158 lswc from a 4" barrel is good enough for my paper punching when 38 special just won't do.
 
8.0 grains of Herco will do what you want -- but you don't have Herco. So 6.5 grains of Unique is a great place to start and will get you close. 6.8 grains is max with a 158 LSWC, according to Alliant's 2004 reloading manual.
 
Red Dot = "cowboy loads". Very accurate cowboy or target loads.

Unique is a poor choice for that, unless you just like cleaning your gun. (I think that's where you hear all the "flaming dirt" comments) Unique cleans up pretty well near the top end.

Bullseye is kind of in the middle. Dirtier than Red Dot, also gives very good accuracy, and can be loaded hotter. Bullseye also measures better than RD or Unique.
 
"Red Dot = "cowboy loads". Very accurate cowboy or target loads.

Unique is a poor choice for that, unless you just like cleaning your gun. (I think that's where you hear all the "flaming dirt" comments) Unique cleans up pretty well near the top end.

Bullseye is kind of in the middle. Dirtier than Red Dot, also gives very good accuracy, and can be loaded hotter. Bullseye also measures better than RD or Unique."
____

6 grains of Red Dot will get you 1200+fps with a 158. Giddyap, cowboy.

http://www.castpics.net/project2/CastDatalist.php?order=BulletWt&ordertype=ASC
 
I actually use Unique as a second choice in the .357mag. behind #2400. (and occasionally Hod. Lil'Gun.
I load a bit hotter at 7.8gr with a Jacketed 158gr bullet and 7.2 with the same cast gas-check Lee SWC that MCGunner listed above. These come real close to duplicating the 14.5gr of #2400.
Do use a "standard" primer with these. Use of a Magnum primer may require reducing.
Lyman #48 lists 8.3gr of Unique as max with a Hornady XTP at 38,000cup with a CCI#550. I would however, start at 6.5 and work up. My Ruger Sec.6 dosen't yeild good accuracy till you "spank" it pretty hard.
 
Looked at an older Alliant manual

I was looking at an older Alliant manual I found on the net, and they list a 357 Magnum load with Unique 6.8gr max with the 158gr LSWC. This data, however, lists a Federal 200 primer (Small pistol Magnum) They also listed a max for 2400 of 15.3 (where the current Lyman lists 15.5, and also with a magnum primer)

Now I know that normally everyone recommends against using a magnum primer with 2400, and I haven't seen other recipes for Unique using a magnum primer.

I guess I will work up to the 6.8 gr load with a standard small pistol primer, eh?

Speaking of which, I had great accuracy with a 15.2gr load of 2400. I don't know if I was just having a good moment on the range, but they were really shooting great. I don't know if I would want to always load them that hot, but the accuracy was really something.
 
The OP wants something that is not max .357, but will let him know it is more than +P .38. Unique is excellent for midrange .357 loads.

From his opening post:
I'm looking for a good medium magnum, not max loading. Just enough to remind me it isn't a 38+P.
Click to expand...

Unique will do this in spades.
 
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7.0 grains Unique with a 158 cast SWC gives me an AVG of 1200 FPS from a 6" GP100

7.3 averaged 1255

JIM
 
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