Load check - 357 magnum and 158 LSWC

[Shrinkmd]

I was looking at the Lyman manual, and they list a few bullets around 158 gr, but not a 158 gr lswc. For Bullseye, is 5.0 gr a good starting point? How fast can you drive a hard cast lead slug before getting leading problems? I am using the Dardas cast bullets. Would I be better off with 2400, or is Bullseye better for lighter magnum loads with lead bullets?

 

[Walkalong]

5.0 will be fine, and it is better for light .357 mag loads. 2400 would be good from around 75% power and up.

 

[Ben Shepherd]

What velocity do you want to launch these at? Tell us that, and we can get you to a good powder to do so.

 

[Steve C]

Hard Cast bullets will often lead badly if the pressure is too low to obturate (bump up) the bullets base enough to seal the bore. With out good seal you get the hot gasses melting the sides of the bullet to the barrel. Leading at the forcing cone end of the barrel is an indicator of poor bullet seal or fit, leading at the muzzle end of the barrel indicates too high a velocity.

A hard cast 158gr Lead .357 mag load max is from 6.5 to 6.9grs depending upon data source. A 5.0gr load should be pushing the bullet out the end of a 4" barrel right about 1,000 fps and if the bullet isn't too hard should work well. Softer bullets like Speers swagged bullets list a maximum load at 4.8grs. Check for leading and if there is much at the start of the barrel try increasing your load by 0.5grs.

 

[Remo-99]

Would I be better off with 2400, or is Bullseye better for lighter magnum loads with lead bullets?

Bullseye is good for making light plinking and target loads.
If you're looking for a lighter magnum load, then 2400 would do that.
Or for something between them, Unique works well.
Just depends on the power range/velocity you're looking to meet, as to which of the powders will be the most suitable.

 

[Shrinkmd]

Thanks for the info.

How fast have people driven their 158 gr hard cast LSWC? I have a chronograph, so I can check. 4" "test barrel" attached to my 686...

That is interesting about where the leading occurs. So far, I have only noticed slight leading right after the chamber area in auto pistols or in my revolver barrel, none further down toward the muzzle. So I can drive them faster?

This new hobby is almost as much fun as shooting.

 

[Jeff H]

How fast have people driven their 158 gr hard cast LSWC? I have a chronograph, so I can check. 4" "test barrel" attached to my 686...

I drive mine pretty fast and they aren't even hardcast, just run of the mill cast lead bullets from a local supplier very similar to Dardas or Missouri bullets. I don't have a chrono but I run mine at 15g of 2400 out of a 6.5" Blackhawk. I would think that would be over 1400fps.

 

[Mark whiz]

One of my best loads for my 4" Security Six is 7.0gr of Universal with a 158gr LSWC - this Chronos at 1184fps. Leading with this load is "normal" - nothing out of the ordinary for lead bullets.
My most accurate LSWC load is with 7.5gr of AA#5 - 1.135" groups at 15 yards at 772fps.

 

[bullseye308]

I shoot 158 LSWC cast from wheel weights with 5.0gr Bullseye a lot. no idea on the FPS as my chrono is acting up lately, but very accurate in a Ruger GP-100 6". I fired 300 rds the other day and saw no need to clean the barrel. The rest of the pistol was another story though

The same bullet with 14.5 gr of 2400 is where I like to stop personally. I'm just killing paper and rocks and stuff. There is no need for that much for me, but still no leading.

 

[Ben Shepherd]

I don't have a chrono but I run mine at 15g of 2400 out of a 6.5" Blackhawk. I would think that would be over 1400fps

Unless yours is a lot different than the blackhawks I own, you're most likely running right near 1500 f.p.s. flat.

 

[Shrinkmd]

Did some loading today

Ok, I made up 50 round boxes of the following:

Starline 357 brass
Federal Standard Pistol Primer
2400 powder
Dardas LSWC 158 gr
1.590" medium crimp (I think)

I loaded up 11.4 gr, 11.8, 12.2, and 12.6 gr so far of 2400. I think it meters even better for me than Bullseye. Anyway, does this sound reasonable? What velocities should I expect when I shoot these? Also, it is colder here, and it will probably be in the mid 40's or so when I shoot these. How much effect does temperature have?

Thanks!

 

[rcmodel]

The old standard 158 grain lead bullet load in the .357 was 15.0 grains 2400.

Lyman currently lists a 160 grain cast bullet with a max load of 15.5.

2400 burns best at high pressure, and I think you will see a lot of unburned powder with your starting load charges.

If it was me, I would work up to 14.5 and call it good.
Oh wait! I did, about 40 years ago!
And I still use that load in S&W Model 19 & 66 revolvers.

rc

 

[MichaelK]

I cast Lyman's 358477 SWC in #2 alloy and shoot it with 12.0 grains of Blue Dot in my .357 rifle. These bullets are leaving the barrel at 1809 fps the last time I checked and get minimal leading that cleans out with a few cotton patches.

 

[GP100man]

Shrink

When ya shoot those loads ya got with 2400 hold the muzzle straight up when ya eject em so the kernels will fall out with the case instead of gettin under the ejector star & tying upthe cyl.

I normally load 13.5 grs. under a 160gr 357446 swc& a 155gr 358156 hp swc .

These make good loads that are accurate & good for shootin what needs shootin!

 

[Shrinkmd]

Again, these are all Starline 357 brass, Federal SP primer, 158 gr LSWC from Dardascastbullets.com, powder and charge below. And it was pretty cold this weekend, the temp was around 32-33F when these were taken. Its funny, I also shot some 45 Auto Rim, same charge/gun, and it was running 15 fps less than a month ago when it was around 55 or 60F outside. So temperature matters a bit.

So here is the data. All fired from 686 4" revolver:

5.0 gr Bullseye
High: 975.8
Low: 913.1
E.S.: 62.7
Ave.: 938.5
S.D.: 13
95%: 2.6

5.2 gr Bullseye
High: 1019
Low: 925.7
E.S.: 93.3
Ave.: 968.1
S.D.: 21.6
95%: 4.7

11.4 gr 2400
High: 1121
Low: 1007
E.S.: 114
Ave.: 1068.5
S.D.: 28.1
95%: 8.4

11.8 gr 2400
High: 1138
Low: 976
E.S.: 162
Ave.: 1075
S.D.: 35.3
95%: 10.6

12.2 gr 2400
High: 1149
Low: 1015
E.S.: 134
Ave.: 1099.3
S.D.: 30.3
95%: 9.4

12.4 gr 2400
High: 1154
Low: 1044
E.S.: 110
Ave.: 1108.5
S.D.: 28.6
95%: 8.6

I know the numbers are a bit low because of the cold. Do they look ok otherwise? Bullseye 0.2 grain changes it by 30 fps, but 0.4 gr 2400 moves the average about 10 or so. Is this right? And would that last load be considered too hot, or a medium 357 mag which I could shoot out of a 686 no problem forever?

 

[GP100man]

Yep temps is the major thing the bench rest shooters watch!!

& that 12.4 grs of 2400 under a 158gr swc will shoot all day long in a 686 .

2400 does`nt start topping out in the 357mag with 158gr bullet until `bout 15.0

But work up to max in YOUR revolver!!

13.5 with my home cast boolits is enuff to do what i need done .

If ya increase pressure on 2400 a little bit it`ll burn alot cleaner also.

 

[Shrinkmd]

I will be curious to see how many 12.4 gr 2400 loads that brass can take. I am having some trouble controlling that strong a load (well, actually I did shoot 500 rounds the other day, so my hands/fingers/eyes/grip/concentration were seriously flagging by the end) I could shoot the 5.0 or 5.2 Bullseye load for target practice no problem, dead center. And I finally have my adjustable sights dialed in correctly. I think the last time I shot the gun I was still more recoil shy, and I had adjusted the sights to try and compensate for flinching. No longer.

So do people think that a light magnum load like 12.4 of 2400 and a 158 LSWC would not put appreciable extra wear on a 686? The primers definitely looked flattened compared to the lighter Bullseye loads, but I know according to the velocity that I am nowhere near max load. I also tried tipping the cases backwards before shooting, to see if powder position makes a difference.

I think I am getting hooked on the stupid chronograph.

 

[rcmodel]

I did shoot 500 rounds the other day,

IMO: In my experience with Army AMU pistol teams, shooting 500 rounds of any pistol ammo in a day is not doing so much to teach shooting skills & raise scores, as reinforcing bad habits like flinching.

100 - 150 quality-time rounds in a practice session is all most folks can glean any benefit from.
After that, it's all down hill.

rc

 

[Quoheleth]

Not to hijack the thread, but the last time I was at the toy store, they were out of 2400 so I got some AA#9 instead. #9 is a bit faster than 2400, IIRC, from the powder burn charts. Alliant's website doesn't list pressure. Accurate says their max charge of 12.4gr hits over 30K CUP. That seems pretty heavy to me. Is 2400 a lower pressure powder? Is 2400 better suited for lead bullets than AA#9?

Q

 

[Shrinkmd]

IMO: In my experience with Army AMU pistol teams, shooting 500 rounds of any pistol ammo in a day is not doing so much to teach shooting skills & raise scores, as reinforcing bad habits like flinching.

I usually do not shoot that much, but the weather is getting colder and I really wanted to chrony a lot of different loads before it gets below pistol shooting temps and I switch to things I can load and fire without removing my gloves! I usually shoot (now that I am a reloader!) about 250-300 rounds, and with my 45 the last target is almost as good as the first.

Even with the last few cylinders of the hottest loads, I was able to put many in the black, and the flyers lacked a discernible pattern. I do need to dry fire more, though. Don't we all.

 

[GP100man]

2400s pressure curve is different from h110 or #9 , thus it works better .

 

[_N4Z_]

rc said -

I would work up to 14.5 and call it good.
Oh wait! I did, about 40 years ago!
And I still use that load in S&W Model 19 & 66 revolvers.

So do you use plain lead slugs, or hardcast? I have a few hundred Speer 158gr lswc's, a couple pounds of 2400, and a hungry six inch GP100. I've not yet loaded anything but jacketed stuff with that much 2400... I gotta try it. Minimal leading you say?

 

[Shrinkmd]

I just finished cleaning the guns tonight (I let them soak in Mpro7 for a day or two)

There was essentially no leading in the barrel at all. No fooling. And these bullets are actually undersized. I ordered incorrectly from Dardas and had them sized to .357 instead of .358 like I probably should have.

In the revolver I used .452, and they were pretty much lead free as well. Of course, they weren't going 1100 fps.

So, considering I shot 400 rounds of 158 LSWC, with half light Bullseye and the other half light 2400 charges, I was very pleased with the absence of any significant leading. I did obsessively clean with the deleading wool and the Lewis lead remover, but I didn't really get anything out, and the barrels look shiny. I really should get some stainless steel chamber brushes for the cylinder, though.

And now they stink from Eez-ox and are back in their safe, tucked in for the night.