45 cal pistol dies to size 30.06 & family??

Slightly odd question here, maybe...

On another forum, I was reading how you can use a 45 acp carbide sizing die to body size the 30.06 (and family) cases. This works to iron out any bulges in the case, and/or to size down the lower area of the case that might have been shot before in loosy-goosy military chambers or maybe with too stout loads. Apparently it's a cool trick that works quite well from what I can learn.

Before I buy a 45 acp die for just this purpose, can someone tell me if a 45 Colt die would work to do the same?? According to SAAMI, the 45 Colt is .004" bigger, but I believe the dies might be closer to the same. Or maybe the .004" wouldn't be too much bigger??

The reason I ask, is I don't load for any 45 cal pistols, but I might load for 45 Colt in the future, and would prefer buying that if it will work

Thanks!!
Vettepilot

Wow! I thought I was clear. But since virtually everyone misunderstood, "clearly" I was not!

You full length size, (or bump size) as normal. Then, if the case won't fit into the cartridge gauge, or chamber in the gun, you run it through a carbide 45 acp sizing die, with the de-capper removed.

This acts like a small base body sizing die, or a push through "bulge buster", and sizes down slightly over-size case bodies/lower sections. "This works great to recover brass that had been shot in oversize/loose military guns and machine guns".

I ran across the trick in another forum, where all attending testified to it working very well. I thought it a cool tip. They did not know if a 45 Colt die would work in the same fashion, so I thought I would ask the question here. Sorry for the confusion.

Again, after normal full length or bump sizing, if necessary, you run the case through the carbide 45 acp sizing die with de-capper removed. This acts as a "bulge buster" for 30.06 and family cases. It irons out/ re-sizes the lower portion of the case, better than a small base die.

I was wondering if 45 Colt would do so too. (45 Colt is .004" larger than 45 acp.)

Vettepilot

Yeah, I don't know, but they might have been talking about Lee carbide dies. I just ordered a Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die in 45 acp. That will do it, with the crimp parts removed. The lower portion of it is a carbide re-sizer to smooth out/size down loaded rounds that might have bulges.

I wish I had known of this trick a few years ago. Back then I threw out a bunch of Lake City match 30.06 cases that wouldn't quite size down in the body...

Vettepilot

Ok, will do. Thanks for answering!!

Now that I've got that 45 acp Lee carbide factory crimp die coming, I'm curious as to whether I might be able to use it to crimp any 45-70 loads I might not want to roll crimp. In this day and age, and economy, ya gotta save every dime ya can!!

I'll have a gander at the SAAMI drawings later, but off hand, I think the 45-70 has a bigger base and too much body taper. The case probably won't go up in the die far enough...

Thanks,
Vettepilot

Yeah, just checked. The 45-70 starts at .480" at the rim, so it's too big. It wouldn't go into a 45 acp die, not even a little bit. So scratch that idea...

I bet it would work to crimp 45 Colt, if I ever decide to do that. Sigh... most of those would be roll crimped though.

Not going to do 45 acp myself, so no multi-purpose; just a 30.06, .243, and .308 "bulge-buster". That's ok. BTW, it is supposed to work on .243/.308 too, even though it's not the same "family."

Vettepilot

It's precisely the same reason why a small base die is called for sometimes. For when, for whatever reason, the body is swelled and a standard full length sizing die just won't quite size the body down enough. This is often near the base.

Possible reasons:

Cases were shot in loose, military chamber or machine gun.
Cases were shot with a too stout load.
Gun to be used has a very tight chamber, and normal sized brass won't quite fit.
Case has bulge after loading?
Other?

Using a carbide 45 acp resizing die has been shown to size the case body down enough to solve this problem, apparently even better than a small base die, and/or in lieu of a small base die.

I have certainly run into this problem, as have others. That's how/why the sizing "trick" -was discovered! I am glad nobody here has run into the problem...

Vettepilot

Walkalong said:

The .45 Colt sizer is not as tight, so that's a good question. I had some .30-06 brass fired in Garands that was resisting sizing, so I added an RCBS small base sizer to my collection, but it did not fix it. Hmmmmm........

Click to expand...

It would be very interesting to know if a 45 acp carbide sizing die would fix the problem when a 30.06 small base die did not. It is sounding from reports here though, that perhaps only the Lee dies are open enough when disassembled to work??

I have some older Lake City Match 30.06 cases that a few of them won't size down all the way. I suspect they were fired in a loose miltary chamber. It's a bit curious, as they chamber in my Winchester model 70, but won't quite fit the case gauge. Anyway, my 45 acp die should be here tomorrow, and I'll give it a whirl, just to see...

Vettepilot

I am rather excited about this concept. I have a 30.06, for which this trick might be very occasionally useful. However, I have 3 AR10's in .243 and .308. It could prove very useful for those, and I wouldn't have to buy small base dies for them.

Vettepilot

Guys, I am going to quote the original article where I found this trick. I had done a "copy and paste" of it into my notes. But I can't remember where I had gotten it, so I'm sorry but I can't note the source. I believe it might have been the "24hourCampfire" forum.

Of notable interest is that apparently the .38/.357 carbide dies will do the same trick to our .223/.556 cases! I had forgotten that detail, until I looked up this reference to share with you.

BELOW:

Many years ago, I ran into a "logistics" article and the author pointed out that the .30-'06, .308 (7.62 NATO) and .45ACP all have in common the .473" rimless case head.

Later, I had some sticky loaded .30-'06 ammo and I hated the chore of tearing it all apart, FL sizing and reassembling. Then, a BRIGHT LIGHT went off in my head, "Why not see if I could resize the BASES by running the loaded ammo through a .45ACP tungsten/carbide die.

And I should mention here that the handgun dies, especially those made to reload ammo for autoloading pistols, have really great tight sizing units. In the t/c die, a ring of tungsten carbide is used and it is nice and tight.

Anyway, I ran one round of ammo through the tungsten/carbide die and tried it in my .30-'06. WOW, it fed like quicksilver ... the headspace was perfect and the swollen base was perfectly ironed out.

I cycled the rest of the ammo and tested for accuracy. No problem.

Since then, I've used this trick many, many times and it has saved my arse from the fire on numerous occasions.

Let Steve court heresy. Amongst the benchrest folks, it is "known" that cases eventually grow (from firing) and that a "bump die" is required to return the cases to the original shape. Bump dies work on the shoulder. Frankly, I believe a "Base die" would be way more appropriate ... and that is precisely what I use; a .45ACP tungsten-carbide sizing die to iron out the BASES of rifle cases based on the .473" rimless case head.

Is there any other cartridge that is commonly used that has such a common die???? YUP, there is and I found it only because I needed it horribly.

Once, I ended up with a schitload of .223 Ackley handloads that would fit two of my .223 Ackley rifles, but would not close in the chamber of my third rifle.

Scrambling for help, I found that the .38 Special/.357 Magnum was close to the .223 case ... If anything, the .38 was just a snazzle too large. So, having a nice RCBS .38/.357 tungsten-carbide sizing die, I tried sizing some cases.

Friends, the manuals may tell you that the .223 cartridge base is smaller than the .38/.357, but in actual practice, the .38 t-c sizer just irons a little polished area on the .223 case web.

And I polished the base web areas of my 2,000 .223 Ackley loaded ammo in just a few hours. AND EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THE CASES EASILY FIT INTO THE RIFLE THAT WAS PREVIOUSLY A NON-CLOSER.

I shot every last cartridge the following weekend ... leaving many prairie dog widows and a few dead coyotes.

Now, lets take a look at what we know: the .45ACP tungsten-carbide die (the open type) will size the bases of any cartridge case based on the .30-'06/.308 ... and, my friends, that is a LOT of rounds ... and because we are concerned with the web area of the cases, it makes no diff if the case is Ackley or not. Also, we know that the .38 Special/.357 S&W Magnum sizing die, the open type with the tungsten-carbide ring, will iron-out the web area on any case based on the .222/223.

End quote.

If someone recognizes where this is from so I can cite it and give credit, please let me know.

Edit: HERE IT IS! 9th post down, by "dogzapper" on this page:
https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt.../6845890/resizing-30-06-base-using-45-acp-die

Thanks,
Vettepilot