45 cal pistol dies to size 30.06 & family??

[P Flados]

About a year go I was making up a big batch of 300 BO from mixed 223 brass and other "reject" cartridges made from 223 brass. Some of the brass I was converting had been fired in a wildcat chamber that was a little big down at the base. These took a lot of force to size and a few sheared off the rim when trying to extract the case from the sizing die. I remembered the base size match on 357 and tried running the problem cases through my 38/357 carbide die first. They ran in and out of carbide die easy enough and then they were very easy to get in and out of the 300 BO sizer.

 

[Vettepilot555]

Yep. There's one very clear example of the usefulness and utility of this tip/trick. And it's so easy to do.

Someone recently said to me; "A solution is a solution, and it may not be what many consider “mainstream”." I thought that was very well said.

Thanks,
Vettepilot

 

[BBarn]

This "trick" for .473" diameter rifle cases won't work with the most popular standard 45 Auto carbide sizing dies, including those from Hornady, Lee, and RCBS. It will perhaps work with the standard carbide 45 Auto sizing dies made by Lyman and Redding. It will work with Lee's 45 Auto Factory Carbide Crimp Die.

 

[Vettepilot555]

I can only vouch for the Lee "Factory Crimp Dies" in both 45 acp, and 38/357 working perfectly. I am quite surprised it won't work in the ones you mention with the decapper removed. Are you sure?? "DogZapper", the original poster of the trick in another forum, said the RCBS carbide pistol dies work.

(9th post here):
https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt.../6845890/resizing-30-06-base-using-45-acp-die

@P Flados: What brand 38/357 die did you use?

At any rate, the Lee Carbide Factory Crimp dies are only 18 bucks.

Vettepilot

 

[lgjhn]

Yep. There's one very clear example of the usefulness and utility of this tip/trick. And it's so easy to do.

Someone recently said to me; "A solution is a solution, and it may not be what many consider “mainstream”." I thought that was very well said.

Thanks,
Vettepilot

 

[BBarn]

I can only vouch for the Lee "Factory Crimp Dies" in both 45 acp, and 38/357 working perfectly. I am quite surprised it won't work in the ones you mention with the decapper removed. Are you sure??

Here's a 30-06 case bottomed out in a RCBS 45 Auto carbide sizing die. Below that is the same in a Hornady 45 Auto titanium nitride sizing die. The case neck or shoulder bottoms out before the base of the die contacts the shellholder. I don't have a Lee 45 Auto carbide sizing die to try, but based on comparisons with other Lee sizing dies, I suspect it's similar to, or perhaps a bit more accommodating for such sizing than the Hornady die pictured.







At any rate, SAAMI case dimensions specify a smaller base dimension for the 30-06 case than for the 45 Auto case. So, in most instances, it's doubtful that a 45 Auto sizing die would size a 30-06 case base any more than a standard 30-06 sizing die (assuming the 45 Auto die has sufficient clearance for a 30-06 case).

I suppose special circumstances may exist, but it would seem to me that a standard 30-06 sizing die has a better chance of removing case bulge from 30-06 cases than a standard carbide 45 Auto sizing die.

 

[Vettepilot555]

Well, it has worked well for others, and it works well for me. VERY well. (Using Lee carbide dies.)

I'm gone.

Vettepilot

 

[P Flados]

@P Flados: What brand 38/357 die did you use?

Vettepilot

I have two carbide sizers for 38/357. For normal use I always go with the Lyman as the entry into the die is more rounded. For odd jobs with the decapper removed it is usually the RCBS. However, on rare occasions I might have just used the Lyman instead of digging out the RCBS. Both will work fine for "bulge busting" 223 based cartridges.

 

[denton]

Similar problem here, little bit different solution:

I have a bolt action Savage 30-30. The chamber is a bit on the small side. New brass fits just fine, and commercial ammo fits just fine, but range brass hangs up at the pressure ring even if it has been full length sized. As nearly as I can determine, nobody makes small base dies for the 30-30.

The 30-30 has quite a bit of taper to it. I bought a new die body from Lee for $6, and whacked off the top just below the shoulder. Then I ground about .075" (I think) off the bottom, so that the new bottom of the die was farther up the cavity and smaller in diameter. Then I shaped the mouth of the die a bit to get rid of the sharp edge. It's a funny looking thing, and just long enough to engage about 4 threads in the press.

Before I do anything else, I run range brass through that sorta-die. It gets rid of just enough of the pressure ring that after FL forming, the brass fits in the chamber.

 

[Vettepilot555]

Nice fix. I want to do something similar for a slightly different reason in some of my calibers. My local gun shop has some big boxes of mixed dies, available for 5 bucks each. I've gone through and snagged some full length sizing dies in certain calibers. I will use these to make body sizing dies by either lopping off the top part that sizes the neck, or by boring out the neck sizing portion. Then I can use those to bump size the brass, and then use the Lee Collet Neck Sizing Die for doing the necks for better concentricity and consistency.

Yeah, yeah, I know. Some "Body Dies" are available to just buy. But they're not cheap, and with a few minutes lathe time I can have them for 5 bucks, along with the satisfaction of having made them myself!!

Ha! The way my ideas here have come under attack, I can't wait to hear the comments on this one!!

Vettepilot

 

[JCooperfan1911]

Man, I didn’t know .45 ACP guns were so desperate to size .30-06! RIP!

 

[Laphroaig]

This is the first time I've ever heard of this problem, and 30-06 was the first cartridge I started loading in 1967. I wouldn't spend money on a new die either. You'd be better off buying a bag of new brass with the money you'd spend and toss the junk brass you're trying to salvage in the scrap bucket.

 

[Vettepilot555]

It's not just 30.06. It's also 308-7.62×51, 243, and others of the same size.

Ha! It just works, and saves some brass and headaches. Same trick for 223/556 using 38/357 carbide dies.

It's truly amazing how many here are resistant to the idea. It's funny actually! Then there's others that are happy to learn of it, and those that already knew about and use the technique.

To each his own...

;~)

Vettepilot

 

[entropy]

Wow! I thought I was clear. But since virtually everyone misunderstood, "clearly" I was not!

You full length size, (or bump size) as normal. Then, if the case won't fit into the cartridge gauge, or chamber in the gun, you run it through a carbide 45 acp sizing die, with the de-capper removed.

This acts like a small base body sizing die, or a push through "bulge buster", and sizes down slightly over-size case bodies/lower sections. "This works great to recover brass that had been shot in oversize/loose military guns and machine guns".

I ran across the trick in another forum, where all attending testified to it working very well. I thought it a cool tip. They did not know if a 45 Colt die would work in the same fashion, so I thought I would ask the question here. Sorry for the confusion.

Again, after normal full length or bump sizing, if necessary, you run the case through the carbide 45 acp sizing die with de-capper removed. This acts as a "bulge buster" for 30.06 and family cases. It irons out/ re-sizes the lower portion of the case, better than a small base die.

I was wondering if 45 Colt would do so too. (45 Colt is .004" larger than 45 acp.)

Vettepilot

Or you can just use a small base die. That has always worked for me. If I have ammo that might be fired through a semi-auto. it is sized in a small base die. This assures chambering, no 'second pass' resizing die needed. If your reloads that have been sized with a small base die are not chambering, the correct fix has nothing to do with case size, but fixing the less than minimum chamber dimensions.

 

[Vettepilot555]

Whatever. Ya just don't "get it."

Have a good one.

Vettepilot

 

[BBarn]

Well, it has worked well for others, and it works well for me. VERY well. (Using Lee carbide dies.)

Regarding use on 30-06 cases: By "Lee carbide dies" do you mean Lee's standard carbide sizing dies, their Carbide Factory Crimp Dies, or have you successfully used both?

 

[entropy]

Whatever. Ya just don't "get it."

Have a good one.

Vettepilot

It doesn't add up. As Bbarn explained, a full length .30-06 sizing die is dimensionally smaller than a .45 ACP sizing die (something I just confirmed to be true with a caliper and micrometer), and since small base dies are even smaller (also confirmed the same way, all these being RCBS dies, and the pistol die being carbide, of course), the logical conclusion is your dies are all out of SAAMI specs.
There is only one other possible conclusion, and I will refrain from mentioning it.
Denton's solution for his predicament is is very well thought out; yours is a solution for a problem that should not exist. If it is indeed as you say, then you need to replace some dies, as your .30-06 dies are way too loose. The .45 ACP die is a bit tight, but that's not necessarily a bad thing, I'd keep it.

 

[No1Mech]

It's not just 30.06. It's also 308-7.62×51, 243, and others of the same size.

Ha! It just works, and saves some brass and headaches. Same trick for 223/556 using 38/357 carbide dies.

It's truly amazing how many here are resistant to the idea. It's funny actually! Then there's others that are happy to learn of it, and those that already knew about and use the technique.

To each his own...

;~)

Vettepilot

Hey Vettepilot,
I have been using a 45acp carbide die for m14 fired 308 brass for a while, the brass was warped along the base and would size but not fit in a chamber.
I tried the carbise 45acp dies and literally pushed the whole 308 1966 match brass completely through the die, like sizing lead, and all of the brass fits and is back to normal. What most people don't understand is when sizing brass cases they "spring back" a little so you do have to squish them down more.
Good job on your posts!!! And thanks for the 223 into carbide 38/357 I'm gonna use that today!!!