WrongHanded
Member
- Joined
- Jul 6, 2017
- Messages
- 4,771
A recent thread on sectional density of handgun bullets, and an included article with some formulas for estimating penetration depth and wounding diameter, now have me interested in .357 magnum loads again.
The article referred to a 180gr .357 Magnum load going 1,300fps from a 4" barrel. Like these:
https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=396
https://doubletapammo.com/collections/handgun-ammo/products/357-mag-180gr-hardcast-solid-a-20rds
https://www.underwoodammo.com/357-magnum-180-grain-lead-flat-nose-gas-check.html
And that got me interested to see what was really achievable for a handloader if they were to stay on what they believed would be the safe side of SAAMI specs.
In Lyman 50th, there is one load claiming over 1200fps with a 180gr from a 4" barrel. W296 at 1,221fps. One other load with H110 scrapes just over 1,100fps, all others are below it.
In the Hornady manual, there is not a single load reported to reach 1200fps.
The Speer manual only goes up to a 170gr load. Still nothing that breaks 1200fps.
Lyman Cast Bullet 4th, does a 180gr lead bullet that gets over 1200fps with two powders. Enforcer hits 1,247fps. H110 hits 1,266fps.
This last one is getting us close. So I tried running some numbers through Quickloads with the closest bullet I could find. Using the data from Lyman Cast, QL found them over pressure, by a lot. Well, not all bullets are equal, and even with the same OAL and same weight in a solid cast bullet, the case capacity may change and effect the results.
So I found a bullet that was in both QL and the Lyman Cast manual. It is a Lyman #358429 170gr with an OAL of 1.553". And I ran the data for H110, 2400, AA9, Enforcer, and 4227 from the manual in QLs.
H110 - 49.6k psi
2400 - 70.2k psi
AA9 - 65.5k psi
Enforcer - 47.5k psi
4227 - 58.4k psi
Given that SAAMI has a max of 35k psi for the .357 Magnum, that's pretty scary stuff. The difference between these results and staying inside SAAMI specs is 1 or 2 full grains, depending on the load. Quickloads is only a modelling program, but it if were inaccurate to such a huge degree, I would have thought it would be widely known. CUP and psi are pretty different in how they're recorded, and a the Lyman data is in CUP. But it still makes me wonder, what is really safe and what's not.
If you decide to run QL for .357 Magnum in CIP (the European standards), you can push harder and because the limit is up around 43.5k psi. And compared to some of the modern semi-auto cartridges, this isn't much of a leap depending on the particular gun. But there's still no getting to 1300fps with a 180gr bullet from a 4" barrel.
So here's what I want to know:
Have any of you produced a .357 magnum load that pushes a 180gr from a 4" barrel to 1300fps (or even 1250fps)?
Edited to add:
Using the bullet length and cartridge OAL for Lyman bullet #358429 provide by @LaneP in post #7, the same charges I used in the Lyman Cast manual give very different results on pressure. There's simply much more room available in the case due to the different dimensions. I'll include them now as an illustration of the difference seating depth makes to the program results, but that does not mean these pressure directly apply to the data in that reloading manual; the OAL is very different, as are the bullet lengths used in the original numbers compared to these ones below. It's purely for informational purposes.
H110 - 27.7k
2400 - 42.1k
AA9 - 39.5k
Enforcer - 29.2k
IMR-4227 - 30.4k
The article referred to a 180gr .357 Magnum load going 1,300fps from a 4" barrel. Like these:
https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=396
https://doubletapammo.com/collections/handgun-ammo/products/357-mag-180gr-hardcast-solid-a-20rds
https://www.underwoodammo.com/357-magnum-180-grain-lead-flat-nose-gas-check.html
And that got me interested to see what was really achievable for a handloader if they were to stay on what they believed would be the safe side of SAAMI specs.
In Lyman 50th, there is one load claiming over 1200fps with a 180gr from a 4" barrel. W296 at 1,221fps. One other load with H110 scrapes just over 1,100fps, all others are below it.
In the Hornady manual, there is not a single load reported to reach 1200fps.
The Speer manual only goes up to a 170gr load. Still nothing that breaks 1200fps.
Lyman Cast Bullet 4th, does a 180gr lead bullet that gets over 1200fps with two powders. Enforcer hits 1,247fps. H110 hits 1,266fps.
This last one is getting us close. So I tried running some numbers through Quickloads with the closest bullet I could find. Using the data from Lyman Cast, QL found them over pressure, by a lot. Well, not all bullets are equal, and even with the same OAL and same weight in a solid cast bullet, the case capacity may change and effect the results.
So I found a bullet that was in both QL and the Lyman Cast manual. It is a Lyman #358429 170gr with an OAL of 1.553". And I ran the data for H110, 2400, AA9, Enforcer, and 4227 from the manual in QLs.
H110 - 49.6k psi
2400 - 70.2k psi
AA9 - 65.5k psi
Enforcer - 47.5k psi
4227 - 58.4k psi
Given that SAAMI has a max of 35k psi for the .357 Magnum, that's pretty scary stuff. The difference between these results and staying inside SAAMI specs is 1 or 2 full grains, depending on the load. Quickloads is only a modelling program, but it if were inaccurate to such a huge degree, I would have thought it would be widely known. CUP and psi are pretty different in how they're recorded, and a the Lyman data is in CUP. But it still makes me wonder, what is really safe and what's not.
If you decide to run QL for .357 Magnum in CIP (the European standards), you can push harder and because the limit is up around 43.5k psi. And compared to some of the modern semi-auto cartridges, this isn't much of a leap depending on the particular gun. But there's still no getting to 1300fps with a 180gr bullet from a 4" barrel.
So here's what I want to know:
Have any of you produced a .357 magnum load that pushes a 180gr from a 4" barrel to 1300fps (or even 1250fps)?
Edited to add:
Using the bullet length and cartridge OAL for Lyman bullet #358429 provide by @LaneP in post #7, the same charges I used in the Lyman Cast manual give very different results on pressure. There's simply much more room available in the case due to the different dimensions. I'll include them now as an illustration of the difference seating depth makes to the program results, but that does not mean these pressure directly apply to the data in that reloading manual; the OAL is very different, as are the bullet lengths used in the original numbers compared to these ones below. It's purely for informational purposes.
H110 - 27.7k
2400 - 42.1k
AA9 - 39.5k
Enforcer - 29.2k
IMR-4227 - 30.4k
Last edited: