Sig MPX

I wouldn't get too excited about the MPX yet ... word on the SiG forums is that the charge handle chews up the handguard and for some reason there's a problem with brass shavings in the FCG ...

I don't think SiG has put out much of anything US made of late that has been GTG ... I know because I've have a couple, the early 556 and even the 556xi had more than its share of issues.

I've had an itch for another 9mm carbine ... I ended up buying a CZ Scorpion EVO3 and it should be at my FFL tomorrow ... the Scorpion, 2 20 round mags came with it and I bought 3 extra and an arm-brace kit and adaptor for my Octane suppressor ... all included with shipping and FFL fee was $1050

The sig mpx looks great on paper. However given Sigs recent issues I do not plan to be an early adopter. The other issue with the MPX is the absurd magazine prices. On paper the MPX looks like a much more attractive design (particularly for shooting suppressed) than the evo.

What I'd like to see with the MPX is

A) for it to work well

B) a keymod handguard

C) mags that don't cost $70

For the evo I'm waiting to see what the 922 complaince kit cost. It's really hard to evaluate the evo without knowing what it will cost to make it an SBR and what parts will be replaced in doing so. That and I believe the price will continue to he to come down on the evo. I have no reason to buy one before I can make an SBR anyways.

Here's my 2¢

I considered Sig MPX briefly to turn into an SBR project however after handling it and reading about some issues I decided to pass on it and just stick with the Scorpion EVO and I'm glad I did. Truth is I've been wanting a Scorpion for a long time, even before I heard CZ was going to import them, so it wasn't a difficult decision to make anyway. Don't get me wrong I'm a big fan of Sig but given the choice I'd take something made by CZ over Sig if it came down to it, which it did

Besides the Scorpion comes with two mags, the Sig only one and the CZ mags are cheaper. The CZ is also a much cheaper gun and will be less expensive to SBR in the long run, once the 922r compliance kit comes out that is. Stocks for the MPX also seemed ridiculously expensive! The one thing the MPX really has going for it are the controls, if you are fan of the AR platform.

I would wait on the MPX if I were you and make sure all the bugs are discovered and worked out. Sig has always had a reputation for pushing things too quickly into the market and it comes back to bite them sometimes. Get the Scorpion it was developed over a decade ago and is a proven and well tested design that has been adopted by military and police forces around the world for some time now. The MPX is a great concept but it is very new and has a lot to prove before I'd buy one.

Buy the Scorpion and come over to the CZ dark side! Here's mine with a Scorpion t-shirt and Scorpion knife that I picked up at the CZ store in Prague last year

I agree that the Scorpion is a better choice at the moment. The military version of the CZ has been tested for a few years now by a bunch of foreign military and police forces. And it doesn't hurt that the CZ is also quite a bit cheaper.

Girodin said:

On paper the MPX looks like a much more attractive design (particularly for shooting suppressed) than the evo.

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What is it you're saying? That the MPX will be prettier with a suppressor than the EVO or is it something in the design like the MPX is a more familure layout (AR type controls) or that the MPX will make a more efficient suppressed ... exactly what are you getting at?

These are off the interwebs ...

Crawfish1 said:

Speaking of SIG and suppressed style weapons. I have been waiting for the 556XI in .300 BLK to come out. I called and asked when it was coming out and their customer rep kind of blew me off and said it will be out when it's out. I was pretty excited to try some of their stuff. Not so much any more. Too bad.

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That sounds about like the treatment I got when I inquired about the conversion kits. I have the 7.62x39 xi, and was told there was no plans to put out a conversions for that model because you would need a different lower as well as a bolt and barrel ... only the 223 and 300Blackout were going to have conversion kits ... and he didn't have a release date for those yet.

When I told the rep that there is such a thing as AK style mags in 223 as well as 7.62x39 mags that would fit the AR/NATO mag well he got all pissy and said that's all the information he has at this time.

I'm starting to think these companies that put out guns advertised to have caliber conversions is just advertising hooey.

What is it you're saying? That the MPX will be prettier with a suppressor than the EVO or is it something in the design like the MPX is a more familure layout (AR type controls) or that the MPX will make a more efficient suppressed ... exactly what are you getting at?

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By attractive I meant appealing from an end user perspective, not its aesthetics. The CZ is a blow back gun. Blow back guns tend to have heavier bolts and thus are less flat shooting (muzzle rise during strings of fire, not external ballistics). For shooting suppressed the blow back guns typically have some disadvantages. First they tend to be louder with more noise out of the ejection port. Second you tend to get more gase and gunk coming out of the ejection port.

If you have shot say an MP5 and an 9x19 AR you will know what I am talking about.

The sig's layout and controls are arguably better as well. The AR charging handle is one control I think they could have done without keeping but oh well. The Sig purportedly using various AR parts is nice. I haven't researched it fully but it seems that one can drop an AR trigger in.

The CZ is also a much cheaper gun and will be less expensive to SBR in the long run, once the 922r compliance kit comes out that is.

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What is the price of the compliance kit? I think its is impossible to make that assertion without knowing what it costs. I would imagine that out the door cost on a completely set up CZ will likely be cheaper than on the Sig. With mags costing between $30-50 more for the Sig that alone makes a huge difference if one buys a reasonable number of mags (I like ten at a minimum).

I can't really see buying either gun at this point. The sig is unproven and sig may well make changes a la rumors with the MCX. see http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?170320-The-Sig-MCX-2015-s-quot-ACR-quot
I'll wait on the sig and see what comes of it. They managed to screw up the proven Sig 55X series after all. I also am still hoping for them to have a version with the keymod hand guard.


As for the CZ, real deal CZ Scorpions are a proven design. However, the only reason to get one is to make an SBR. No compliance kit means I wont be making one yet. Some argue for getting the gun and getting the form in since one will have to wait on the ATF. That makes sense in some ways. However, the forth coming compliance kit is a big unknown. It seems no one knows what it will cost, what parts will be replaced, or really much of anything about it. Prices are still falling and mags are still rare. For a pistol call SBR I can bide my time and wait.

The CZ may end up being the go to choice simply because it may be so much more cost effective than either the MPX or an MP5 clone.

Girodin said:

If you have shot say an MP5 and an 9x19 AR you will know what I am talking about.

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Fair enough, I have both and know what you're saying and is the MPX not blow-back?

Girodin said:

The sig's layout and controls are arguably better as well. The AR charging handle is one control I think they could have done without keeping but oh well. The Sig purportedly using various AR parts is nice. I haven't researched it fully but it seems that one can drop an AR trigger in.

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I also have to agree with you on these points as well, and the word on the SiG forum is that the better AR triggers will drop right in, however this voids your warranty.

Girodin said:

What is the price of the compliance kit? I think its is impossible to make that assertion without knowing what it costs. I would imagine that out the door cost on a completely set up CZ will likely be cheaper than on the Sig. With mags costing between $30-50 more for the Sig that alone makes a huge difference if one buys a reasonable number of mags (I like ten at a minimum).

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I've also read somewhere that CZ may be waiting on the aftermarket manufacturers to make mags and various other parts but that kind of seems like internet film-flam ... It would be nice if the CZ used an AR trigger, then it wouldn't take much fore someone to come up with a US made charge handle, mag floor-plates & followers (like in the early AK days) and a muzzle devise of some type and viola, 7 US made parts would reduce the imported parts count and you might even be able to put a genuine CZ folding collapsable stock on it ... if MagPul doesn't come out with one first like they have recently come out with for the AK or the one they make for the Bushmaster ACR.

Girodin said:

I can't really see buying either gun at this point. The sig is unproven and sig may well make changes a la rumors with the MCX. see http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?170320-The-Sig-MCX-2015-s-quot-ACR-quot
I'll wait on the sig and see what comes of it. They managed to screw up the proven Sig 55X series after all. I also am still hoping for them to have a version with the keymod hand guard.

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I'll be a buyer for the MPX but it'll be a few years if it stays in production that long ... after all, they did finally get the 556 bug free ... until they came out with the xi ... I'm just tired of being one of their crash-test dummies. But I can honestly say I'm happy with my P556-SBR and my P556xi-SBR 7.62x39, just disappointed about the 300Blackout conversion kit ... and I've been happy with the Tac-Ops 45, C3 & 1911-22 ... they've been flawless.

Girodin said:

The CZ may end up being the go to choice simply because it may be so much more cost effective than either the MPX or an MP5 clone.

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That's the nice thing about being old ... and having a wife that understands her mans OCD, you can have them all

Kimberkid, I thought that picture looked familiar...



Airsoft Scorpion clone, saw one at SHOT 2015.

As a pistol the Scorpion is different to shoot, but it does OK for me.







I am no great shot by any means, and this video shows me missing more than I would care to admit, but it shows what the thing can do, and probably how much better it would do with a really good shot.

https://youtu.be/MTbAG9gNGrQ

But I've never shot an MPX...nor have I even seen one...

^^^^^
Nice!!!!


I feel like I'm hi-jacking the thread and will start a new one ...

The MPX is not a blowback gun, it runs some kind of piston system. I think it looks sweet but given the price and Sig's QC lately I'll probably go for the Scorpion instead.

OK ... my last post on this thread unless I come across some MPX info!

I got the Scorpion on Tuesday as scheduled, and shot it yesterday and I've havene't been as impressed with a gun as much as this one in some time now ... This gun is every bit as satisfying as my MP5 clone in semi-auto at 1/2 the cost and has a feature the MP5 clone doesn't ... it hold's the bolt back on the last round! It also feels lighter however when I put them on a scale, the MP5 with its collapsable stock weighed about 6.5 pounds as did the Scorpion with the arm-brace ... however the Scorpion has a VFG and an old Aimpoint on it.

I have a direct thread adaptor for my SWR Octane 45 which should be here tomorrow ... but even more exciting is TROS makes a 3-lug barrel adaptor that I can leave on there permentely and it will count as 1 US made part!

We do need 6 US made parts to be 922r compliant and those kits should be available by mid-fall (according to CZ) ... if the trigger housing was just a bit bigger we could use a US made AK FCG as the FCG in the Skorpion is nearly identical to an AK group, only smaller ... It would be nice if the charge handle were a bit larger and that could be another US made part ... and if a compny like Magpul were to make mags, there would be 3 more US parts putting it well over the minimum required!

Here it is;

The sig MPX is not blow back it is a gas operated short stroke piston design. The following is long but shows a lot of details about the sig.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=21OtlN3uN-w

We do need 6 US made parts to be 922r compliant and those kits should be available by mid-fall (according to CZ) ... if the trigger housing was just a bit bigger we could use a US made AK FCG as the FCG in the Skorpion is nearly identical to an AK group, only smaller ... It would be nice if the charge handle were a bit larger and that could be another US made part ... and if a compny like Magpul were to make mags, there would be 3 more US parts putting it well over the minimum required!

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Would the charging handle be a countable part? I am not familiar enough with the scorpion to know if that would be an op rod. One needs to remove (and replace) enough "countable" parts to get the Scorpions 16 countable parts downs to 10. The countable parts are:

(1) Frames, receivers, receiver castings, forgings or stampings
(2) Barrels
(3) Barrel extensions
(4) Mounting blocks (trunions)
(5) Muzzle attachments
(6) Bolts
(7) Bolt carriers
(8) Operating rods
(9) Gas pistons
(10) Trigger housings
(11) Triggers
(12) Hammers
(13) Sears
(14) Disconnectors
(15) Buttstocks
(16) Pistol grips
(17) Forearms, handguards
(18) Magazine bodies
(19) Followers
(20) Floorplates

You can add all the US parts you like but unless you remove a listed part it doesn't affect your parts count or 922(r) purposes.

Guns.com reported that CZ has said that the compliance kit would probably include a replacement grip, trigger, disconnector, muzzle device and magazine follower and floorplate. What is interesting is about that is that the same article claims the stock with be a factory foreign made stock which would actually add a part and put one back at 11. However if you are replacing the trigger and disconnector why not also include a hammer and replace the whole FCG. That would by my count put one at 10 even with a factory stock.

http://www.guns.com/2015/04/11/cz-usa-announcing-922r-complian-evo-3-sbr-kit/

One thing that sucks is that for every mag one would need to buy a new follower and floor plate. I don't know what a follower and floor plate will cost but it will add to the price of the mags. Inserting the wrong mag would also be a violation of the law. I really don't like relying on mags for 922r compliance but it may be unavoidable with the CZ.

If they do a grip maybe one with a little less rake would be nice.

I'll post my reply on the scorpion thread I started.