Wadcutters

As to how "new" wadcutter bullets are, these cartridges from Eley date around the WW I era:


https://images.search.yahoo.com/sea...u=X3oDMTEyb2Q3MXNxBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQ


Bob Wright

robhof

As a former EMT and Emergency room technician, I've seen the results of wadcutter wounds on humans and they are as bad as any hollow point and even in low velocity 38's they are deadly. I use them in my S&W Airweight with complete confidence, consider most SD situations are done at point blank distances, high power and penetration are unnecessary.

I used RNFP 38s on bunnies last fall with very good results. Planning to try SWCs or WCs this fall.

Back in about 1986-1987 there was an article in Guns & Ammo titled something like, Is The 38 Special Dead? it had a picture of a 38 round nose bullet with cobwebs all over it.

In that article they shot several different bullets into test media for expansion. One bullet they tested was a double hollow base wadcutter. No matter how you loaded it you had a hollow point and a hollow base.

This kept it from being tail heavy and trying to swap ends in flight. They didn't list who made the bullets and I have looked high and low for them. They would be one of the best bullets for an airweight snubby.

I even called Corbin about getting a set of bullet forming dies so I could make my own. The $500 price for the dies stopped me cold. In hindsight I wish I would have bought them. I bet I could sell a bunch of them to reloaders.

If anyone has there old G&A mags from back then see if you can find the article. Please.

The old "Manstopper" 200 grain bullet for the .38 S&W was little different from the wadcutters I reload; it is a simple lead cylinder. The British tested the "Manstopper" between wars and concluded that a .38 caliber with a 200 grain bullet would equal the performance of their old .455 revolver load. They called the new cartridge the .38/200. But the soft lead Manstopper was not legal under the Hague accord, so in WWII they went to a 178 grain jacketed bullet which gave only mediocre performance.

Jim

My first J frame kicked pretty bad with full power loads and I got sucked into the Midrange Wadcutter for Gunfighting fad. (Shortly after I fell for the Francis E. Sell "20 gauge magnum for everything" gimmick.)

I shot some wadcutters loaded both ends up into various artificial media and was rather unimpressed. So I went back to hollowpoints and put up with the recoil for an occasional refamiliarization.

In 1939 you could buy Peters Service Wadcutters at 860 fps. Not up to the current Buffalo Bore boutique bullets but better than Midrange target.

When I was young I remember my uncle referring to the wadcutter as a manstopper but I know of no definitive study of any such claim but I suspect that if they were exceptional in that role they would be much more prevalent in the market today.

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AlfonsDeWolf said:

@ljnowell.......standard pressure here, https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=111

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Again boutique manufacturer. Go find me a Winchester or federal load that way. Modern loading doesn't support your claim.


Black Hills:


Fiocchi:



Remington:



Winchester:



Blazer:



Federal:

Cocked and Locked, I've seen the "flying ashtray", but those look like flying oil cans.

I have loaded and carried 200-grain wadcutters in .44 special cases in a Taurus M44. I have no doubt that they would be effective if called on to stop a varmint, whether two- or four-legged. For those of you who reload, check out RimRock Bullets for the pills. They are also dead-nutz accurate for target shooting.

I'm keepin an eye on this thread...
Been trying to decide what to do with the 800+, 148 gr HBWC that I have laying around.

Light loads aren't my cup of joe, so I've been thinking of loading them in 38 spcl, running them as hot as I dare...possibly inverting them.... Or selling the lot of them.

I can't decide

Loading HBWC "hot" invites the head separating from the base and leaving the base stuck in the barrel. Not a good thing.

I would counsel you to use them as they were intended or trade them for some hard cast DEWC to load to higher levels.

Kevin

In my direct but very limited personal experience a DEWC from near contact distance can punch a hole just as round and as clearly defined as on paper in human tissue. Also if they strike a bone and exit side ways they can leave a nasty tare about the length as the length of the bullet.

Stopping the bleeding on that entry wound was no fun.

I love my .45ACP and a little .32 is nice to carry, but I do not in any way feel un armed with a five shot snubbie .38 Special full of wad cutters. May be in January against Nannuke of the North in furs, quilts etc I might be concerned, but not really an issue in Florida.

-kBob

FWIW, Jim Cirillo was always in search of "the perfect bullet". His later designs all looked like...a wadcutter, with not a hollow but cupped point.

I love shooting the 38wc. My two wc (only) pistols that I enjoy. A heavily customized Smith revolver ( note the short cylinder) and the venerable 52-2

Hi, Bob. Yes I did load wadcutters backwards for an old Charter Arms .38 snubbie. About half the time they would start to tumble within 15 yards. But so would everything else! The gun had a damaged crown, or something. I should have mentioned this in my post....my fault. They did make a mess out of a couple of crock pot roasts!

Anyone who thinks handloads are fine for self defense....please check out Massad Ayoob's you tube videos and his books. He can cite you several instances of handloads resulting in enormously bad situations for defendants in a trial.

And I was wrong about hot loaded wadcutters not being factory loads, Buffalo Bore makes some! Problem solved!

i was unable to practice well with a s&w airweight 38 spec until i found wadcutters and 38 shorts. now i have another edc piece, because i only carry what i practice with regularly. a hit with a wadcutter trumps a miss with more powerful ammo.


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I love shooting the 38wc. My two wc (only) pistols that I enjoy. A heavily customized Smith revolver ( note the short cylinder) and the venerable 52-2

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I was going to ask, but a close look at the barrel, confirmed my suspicion...that is a Fred Schmidt "short cylinder" 38 WC only PPC gun.

I sort of half hope to run up one of them one of these days at the LGS...maybe I can get it cheap.

Probably not.

"A heavily customized Smith revolver" ...

Wow - The "Understatement of the Thread Award Winner" for sure!

Those are two very purposeful looking handguns.

A PPC friend wore out his Fred Schmidt short cylinder gun.
Mr Schmidt is since deceased and he knows nobody to overhaul it.

A while back he sent his other gun with regular cylinder back to its home shop for overhaul. Its action was loose and its barrel shot out. 150,000 wadcutters will do that.

The idea of turning around a wadcutter to put the hollow base first probably comes out of the 50s and 60s. Remember that in those days there were NO hollow points that worked at handgun velocities. Reliable hollow point ammo was still years away. I was first introduced to the reverse wadcutter by one of the 'old' guys in the early 70s. He liked it and used it in his carry gun. I played with it some but never became a true follow. The lack of a reliable hollowpoint is what guided me to the 45acp as a duty gun. It started out big so I didn't have to hope for expansion that may or may not work. Now days we have reliable expanding bullets for whatever caliber you wish to use. Isn't technology wonderful.

As for handloads causing problems in court: Maybe. Talked to a trial attorney who had won a wrongful shooting case against a police department. They had used a handload in the rifle but the handloaded ammo was never an issue. I asked him why. Apparently the load was pretty much a standard load for the caliber and did not influence the injury so it was a non issue. On the other hand I knew a guy who used to drill a hole in the front of his 45 bullet and press in a backwards .22cb. On impact the .22 would to go off and cause quite an expansion. If that was used in a defense someone may make a case for premeditation even if the shooting was justified. It would cause problems in the review and could cause the state to go to trial and let the jury figure it out.
Woody

Bass, I saw one on GB maybe 2 yrs ago. It looked quite worn and was at maybe 1500$. I got lucky with mine, previous owner never shot it. I also got a Glen custom in similar condition. Nowhere near as rare but a blast.

Jim Watson said:

How strange, most of my .38 midrange wadcutters are seated dead flush. I thought I had a box of Western Super Match left to show you, but I could not find it.

Neither of my Model 52 S&Ws would accept a wadcutter with lead above the case mouth.
Those that I slipped up and left a little band above the case mouth are relegated to revolvers only.

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True, very true. The Model 52, or least my 52 will not function if the bullet is not flush.
I have a mold for wad cutters that has a small dome on the nose, its a nice bullet but the only way it will function in the 52 is to load it backwards. My preferred mold throws a 148 grain bullet that is beveled on both ends. Really speeds up the reloading process as there is no "nose" to speak of.

A barely perceptible roll crimp is applied over the bullet as shown in post 17.

My preferred mold throws a 148 grain bullet that is beveled on both ends. Really speeds up the reloading process as there is no "nose" to speak of.

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What mould do you have that makes a bullet with a bevel on both ends? Doesn't the sprue cutter cut the base off flat? I have a Lee tumble lube 148gr WC mould and the nose has a slight bevel or convex shape but the base is dead flat.

Bass, I saw one on GB maybe 2 yrs ago. It looked quite worn and was at maybe 1500$. I got lucky with mine, previous owner never shot it. I also got a Glen custom in similar condition. Nowhere near as rare but a blast.

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Thanks, but I wouldn't want one near that bad. I grew up in Mechanicsville, where Mr. Schmidt's shop was so there's a slight connection there. I never even met the man, but he was spoken of quite highly in the local IPSC world when I was dabbling in that. I remember picking up one of his flyers in a local gun store and seeing those short cylinder conversions...and thinking "Who in the world would want one of THOSE?"

But then I was under the spell of Jeff Cooper and IPSC crowd and didn't think the 38 Special was good enough for rabbits. And a Wadcutter ONLY gun? It should at LEAST be a .357.

Of course, I had no idea what PPC shooting was.