PROUDLY MADE IN THE USA! ..... proudly?
- Thread starter D94R
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Staking is a redundency, nothing more and nothing less.
I continue to marvel at "Experts" that think staking is the do all end all solution to all of lifes problems.
If CORRECT cap screws are installed to between 35 and 50 INCH POUNDS of torque the gas key will remain solid and adding high temp Permatex 59214 or Loc-Tite 272 red will only increase the thread holding capacity.
Hammering holy dimples into the sides of your bolt carrier displaces metal to bear against the side walls of the cap screw acting as a secondary preventative measure against the screw head breaking off and flying into the mechanism where it can tie up the function of the weapon.
If a screw backs out without staking it simply means the screw was NOT installed properly, to specifications called out in the material data sheet, to begin with.
If a too small not to specification cap screw is used to secure a gas key, or any critical function part for that matter, it doesn't matter how much brute force hammer staking you do, it is only a matter of time before the assembly will fail.
And this isn't an if situation but a when situation.
Staking on any assembly should NOT be so heavily applied that it requires grinding to free the secured fastener as this wastes time during repair procedures.
Proper staking should break free with only the application of heat to melt any retaining compounds followed by removal with a wrench and breaker bar.
Is that an original Stoner or Colt spec? It's an honest question, as all staking I've ever had experience with (personal and professional) have always been positive displacement staking.
If the spec for the key then though is to simply retain a broken bolt, the staking on the one bolt was still improper.
Even if a bolt shears in a properly staked key, how do you remove it in order to reuse the key without some sort of grinding or cutting?
If the spec for the key then though is to simply retain a broken bolt, the staking on the one bolt was still improper.
Even if a bolt shears in a properly staked key, how do you remove it in order to reuse the key without some sort of grinding or cutting?
The staking on your bolt would have been more than adequate and displays enough displacement to hold the head in place had the cap screws been the right size and properly installed.
If you break a head you simply twist out the second screw and the gas key will come right off.
If BOTH heads break not to worry, the gas key will fall right off and a malfunction of monumental circumstance will occur.
The specs are from my personal notes taken from Depot maintenance repair and replacement manuals for M16A1/A2 rifles
SSN Vet
Member
What the OP experienced, imo, isn't a "QC failure" as in a bad one slipped through. Rather, it's a total lack of QC. QC done right (The Toyota Production System) is expensive and requires a lot of brain power at every level.
WRT the decline of American manufacturing, I believe that it also is the result of a failure at every level & that there is plenty of blame to go around...
>Spin doctors said "globalization is inevitable "repetitively enough that it became true.
>Personal pride in workmanship at the deck plate level degraded (based on my personal observations at three GM plants in the late '80s)
>The American population was more than willing to put their neighbors out of work by purchasing Asian imports at discounted prices.
>The Walmart effect (read up on how they tanked Rubbermaide for the text book definition).
>Pirate Capitalists disciples of Jack Welch (and the many municipal and state pension funds that were more than happy to back them in exchange for better returns).
>Politicians pandering for the donations of both the corporations and unions, an ultimately only concerned with their own personal power, wealth and stature.
>An ignorant electorate, more concerned with the latest sit com or reality TV show than understanding what's really going on in the world, and all too willing to march in lock step with their favorite political party, regardless of their performance.
>A general moral decline that no longer gave a $h!# about human rights in other countries.
WRT the decline of American manufacturing, I believe that it also is the result of a failure at every level & that there is plenty of blame to go around...
>Spin doctors said "globalization is inevitable "repetitively enough that it became true.
>Personal pride in workmanship at the deck plate level degraded (based on my personal observations at three GM plants in the late '80s)
>The American population was more than willing to put their neighbors out of work by purchasing Asian imports at discounted prices.
>The Walmart effect (read up on how they tanked Rubbermaide for the text book definition).
>Pirate Capitalists disciples of Jack Welch (and the many municipal and state pension funds that were more than happy to back them in exchange for better returns).
>Politicians pandering for the donations of both the corporations and unions, an ultimately only concerned with their own personal power, wealth and stature.
>An ignorant electorate, more concerned with the latest sit com or reality TV show than understanding what's really going on in the world, and all too willing to march in lock step with their favorite political party, regardless of their performance.
>A general moral decline that no longer gave a $h!# about human rights in other countries.
So, July 26 and still no replacement bolt. 
I returned the bolt on the 12th, it arrived on the 13th (AIM is in my state). After hearing no word or getting a tracking email I call them up on the 21st or 22nd to see what the deal was.
Joshua told me they received it, and it must be in the pile waiting to be sorted through.
Ok.
He said he'd get to it and get the new one out asap. Got an email on the 22nd questioning confirming I wanted a replacement.
It's now the 26th and no bolt yet
.
I coulda drove to them (2.5 hours away) to get this thing replaced in person (assuming they actually carry them in stock) but would have spent nearly as much in gas
I'll be callling later today or tomorrow to find out what the hell the hold up is.
I returned the bolt on the 12th, it arrived on the 13th (AIM is in my state). After hearing no word or getting a tracking email I call them up on the 21st or 22nd to see what the deal was.
Joshua told me they received it, and it must be in the pile waiting to be sorted through.
Ok.
He said he'd get to it and get the new one out asap. Got an email on the 22nd questioning confirming I wanted a replacement.
It's now the 26th and no bolt yet
. I coulda drove to them (2.5 hours away) to get this thing replaced in person (assuming they actually carry them in stock) but would have spent nearly as much in gas
I'll be callling later today or tomorrow to find out what the hell the hold up is.
Panzerschwein
member
There is a ton of panic buying going on right now due to the impending election. If they are taking a little too long, give them a break. They are probably getting parts out as fast as they can. I personally would GLADLY wait for an All-American product vs. a foreign one.So, July 26 and still no replacement bolt.
I returned the bolt on the 12th, it arrived on the 13th (AIM is in my state). After hearing no word or getting a tracking email I call them up on the 21st or 22nd to see what the deal was.
Joshua told me they received it, and it must be in the pile waiting to be sorted through.
Ok.
He said he'd get to it and get the new one out asap. Got an email on the 22nd questioning confirming I wanted a replacement.
It's now the 26th and no bolt yet
I coulda drove to them (2.5 hours away) to get this thing replaced in person (assuming they actually carry them in stock) but would have spent nearly as much in gas
I'll be callling later today or tomorrow to find out what the hell the hold up is.
Sometimes, quality takes time and patience, and everyone can make mistakes. Never a bad thing to support OUR economy... just saying.
Worthy of concideration.
I did do a follow up email asking if it was shipped yet after I posted above.
Pretty quick turn around on that email with an accompanying tracking email.
So either I timed it right, or that kicked them in gear.
I did do a follow up email asking if it was shipped yet after I posted above.
Pretty quick turn around on that email with an accompanying tracking email.
So either I timed it right, or that kicked them in gear.
AABEN
Member
WELL Boys when are government quit putting laws that drives them out of the USA then things will change. We need to put a tax on the ones that move out so they can make more cash.
They tell us that the AR does like oil so if you do not lube often then it is your baby. When I get a new gun I take it apart clean and use my lube that way I know that it is ready for a trip out shooting I also take my lube.
They tell us that the AR does like oil so if you do not lube often then it is your baby. When I get a new gun I take it apart clean and use my lube that way I know that it is ready for a trip out shooting I also take my lube.
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AABEN wrote:
Could you please clarify your comment; you appear to be saying that the government is enacting laws that are driving companies offshore at the same time you seem to be advocating a punitive tariff on the companies that "comply" with those laws.
Could you please clarify your comment; you appear to be saying that the government is enacting laws that are driving companies offshore at the same time you seem to be advocating a punitive tariff on the companies that "comply" with those laws.
I really don't think there is
Sheepdog1968
Member
Sigh. Sorry to hear that. I recently had problems when Mossberg relaxed the trigger group in Moss 500 shotgun. After the third one, I called to complain to a manager that something must be out of tolerance. Assured me all was fine. The 4th trigger group had the same issue. Finally I bought an all metal one and the issue was fixed. You would think if a loyal 30 year customer is calling who owns lots of your products to point out something is really amiss they would look into it. Nope. Often I would be happy to pay double or triple on the price of something if I know for certain it will be reliable and high quality.
For anyone who hasn't figured it out yet, marketing claims are just about EXACTLY as reliable as political claims. If they think they can stay out of jail, they'll do it/make the claim. To expect otherwise is nothing but naivete. Not every company takes that approach, but most do. Caveat emptor is never more fitting.
I pretty much do not buy anything that I can't return. If I can't return it, I want to inspect it before I buy it.
I pretty much do not buy anything that I can't return. If I can't return it, I want to inspect it before I buy it.
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Hypnogator
Member
Exactly right and should be emphasized. In Army basic back in '71 I always got yelled at by the Drill Sergeants for over-lubing my M-16. The night we had night fire (in the rain - in Feb - at Little Korea) half my platoon wound up using my rifle because at the end of the exercise, mine was the only one still functioning.
Yep...
An electorate ignorant enough to elect our current bunch of "politicians" is the USA's root problem...
The bolt did show up Saturday, in an envelope that appeared to go to war and back, but I digress.
I put an allen key to the gas key bolts and tried to ever so slightly tighten them. That wasn't happening, and the staking looks heavier than the original but I'll compare it tonight with the previous bolts pictures. No sign's of the permatex "oozing" out from under the key so I couldn't tell you if that stuff is really there or not. As long as the key is tight I guess it really doesn't matter.
I'll check extractor tension and see if I can tell if an o-ring is installed or not without disassembly.
I put an allen key to the gas key bolts and tried to ever so slightly tighten them. That wasn't happening, and the staking looks heavier than the original but I'll compare it tonight with the previous bolts pictures. No sign's of the permatex "oozing" out from under the key so I couldn't tell you if that stuff is really there or not. As long as the key is tight I guess it really doesn't matter.
I'll check extractor tension and see if I can tell if an o-ring is installed or not without disassembly.
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