New Bullseye?
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Shootshellz
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Paul: Here in the Pacific Northwest I would be happy to find ANY Alliant powder for reloading. I am not interested in premium gasoline if I can't buy regular.........
Alliant Reloading
Member
Info on BE-86 to address questions:
splattergun: I coined the "modern Unique" because I feel the burn rates are close, and the geometry and Bullseye series chemistry make it supremely suitable for pistol applications. The parallel is meant for CF pistol applications though, and we are not developing loads for shotshell. For shotshell applications, you should be aware of our 20/28(R) powder, as that is the improved Unique for SS. That product was designed for SS though, and isn't as suitable for CF, so we won't be developing loads for pistol for 20/28. Unique is still unique and supremely versatile, and we have no intention of dropping it.
eldon519, yes, you are correct. BE-86 is very similar to Power Pistol(R), which started as BE-84. They are the same chemistry and geometry, but BE-86 is just a little faster burning and we increased the flash suppressant to eliminate secondary flash.
Thanks for your interest, and good luck with your 45Colt load eldon519.
splattergun: I coined the "modern Unique" because I feel the burn rates are close, and the geometry and Bullseye series chemistry make it supremely suitable for pistol applications. The parallel is meant for CF pistol applications though, and we are not developing loads for shotshell. For shotshell applications, you should be aware of our 20/28(R) powder, as that is the improved Unique for SS. That product was designed for SS though, and isn't as suitable for CF, so we won't be developing loads for pistol for 20/28. Unique is still unique and supremely versatile, and we have no intention of dropping it.
eldon519, yes, you are correct. BE-86 is very similar to Power Pistol(R), which started as BE-84. They are the same chemistry and geometry, but BE-86 is just a little faster burning and we increased the flash suppressant to eliminate secondary flash.
Thanks for your interest, and good luck with your 45Colt load eldon519.
I've done some limited testing with be-86, by limited I used:
2 different lots of power pistol
2 different lots of unique
2 different lots of be-86
Did test loads in the 38spl (2"/4"/6" bbl's), 357's (4"/6" bbl's). 9mm (3.2"/5" bbl's) 44spl (2 1/2" & 6 1/2" bbl's), 44mag (6 1/2" & 10" bbl's), 45acp (5" & 8 1/2" bbl's). Testing was done with a high of 10 different bullets in the 38spl/357 to a low of 3 different bullets in the 9mm. The strings were only 10 rounds for each load tested. They were shot over a cheap competition electronics chronograph that was setup on a tripod 10' down range. The testing was done over a course of 6 months and when a bullet/caliber combo was tested with the 3 powders, they were all done on the same day/same range session. While 10-shot stings don't do much in the way of testing there's always 2 sides to every street. Take the 38spl p+ loads I tested for example. I did 10-shot strings with 10 different bullets using BE-86, unique & power pistol. A 10-shot string, so what. But I've always added the results of the different bullets/stings together to get an idea of how a powder with perform with a specific caliber/bbl length setting. The end result is a 100-shot string (10 10-shot stings put together). Some bullets perform better than others but putting shot stings/bullets together it gives the reloader a real world idea of how a powder performs. There's a huge difference between a cherry picked bullet/powder/caliber combo and blanket testing. The blanket testing results from a 10 bullet, 10-shot stings (100 shots total) for power pistol, unique & BE-86 in a 2" bbl'd revoler using 38spl p+ loads of each powder.
Unique ='d 833fps
BE-86 ='d 845fps
PP ='d 887fps
Don't know why but I've always did 10-shot stings and blanket testing with different bullets/powders. Then I go back and cherry pick the top performers and fine tune them.
Head to head comparison power pistol vs unique vs be-86
Unique has been around a long time, lots of data. I've burned a lot of unique over the years and make no mistake about, I do like unique and use a lot of it. Unique really shines in the 44cal's and has more of a push/softer feel to it's loads. It was however more position sensitive with huge es's when the firearm was pointed up vs down. And as always, it performs best with near max loads.
BE-86 did extremely well across the board with all loads tested. It is a bit snappier than unique. BE-86 really shined in the 45acp, the other 2 powders could only equal it's performance at best. BE-86 had the lowest es's & sd's of the 3 powders tested. The light/starting loads were a little dirty but when I got to the middle and above of the recommended powder charges it burned clean.
Power pistol had more snap/jump than the other 2 powders and is at it's best with heavy/hot loads. PP burns clean with mid to full house loads and the es's really drop when you use heavy loads.
Fullhouse loads (magnum and p+)
At the end of the day BE-86 performed the same as unique. The only reason BE-86 had a high velocity than unique for a bullet/caliber combo was because it was extremely consistent/ low es's & sd's. BE-86 and unique were pretty much within +/- 20fps of each other when standard loads were used. I believe the difference is the sd's over a 20-shot string. The end result was that the BE-86 performed with consistently higher velocities over a wide range of bullets/calibers. Power pistol on the other hand outperformed the other 2 powders. But it was loud, a lot of flash and recoil compared to the other 2 powders.
Most powder do extremely well when compared to other powders with specific calibers, these powders were no different.
Unique while being the poorest performing of the 3 powders (overall/50+ bullet/calibers/loads tested) is better than the other 2 powders in the 44cal's. And it really shines in the 44spl.
BE-86, this powder meters extremely well, burns clean and is very consistent shot to shot. It really shines in the 45acp p+ loads.
Power pistol was the top performer over all and shines in the 38spl p+ loads.
BE-86 meters well, burns clean, isn't real snappy with recoil and has less flash than power pistol. For the most part it was slightly better in performance to unique but had the performance characteristics of power pistol in cases with small case capacity. Power pistol has always performed extremely well in cases with small case capacity like the 9mm, 38spl, 357, 45acp. BE-86 has those same qualities and will rival power pistol with some loads in those calibers.
After the testing was done I viewed BE-86 to be power pistol with a flash suppressing agent in it that changed the burn rate making it burn faster.
I would use BE-86 to replace unique, it meters better, burns cleaner and out performed unique in the majority of the loads tested.
Make no mistake about it bullseye and BE-86 are 2 different animals.
2 different lots of power pistol
2 different lots of unique
2 different lots of be-86
Did test loads in the 38spl (2"/4"/6" bbl's), 357's (4"/6" bbl's). 9mm (3.2"/5" bbl's) 44spl (2 1/2" & 6 1/2" bbl's), 44mag (6 1/2" & 10" bbl's), 45acp (5" & 8 1/2" bbl's). Testing was done with a high of 10 different bullets in the 38spl/357 to a low of 3 different bullets in the 9mm. The strings were only 10 rounds for each load tested. They were shot over a cheap competition electronics chronograph that was setup on a tripod 10' down range. The testing was done over a course of 6 months and when a bullet/caliber combo was tested with the 3 powders, they were all done on the same day/same range session. While 10-shot stings don't do much in the way of testing there's always 2 sides to every street. Take the 38spl p+ loads I tested for example. I did 10-shot strings with 10 different bullets using BE-86, unique & power pistol. A 10-shot string, so what. But I've always added the results of the different bullets/stings together to get an idea of how a powder with perform with a specific caliber/bbl length setting. The end result is a 100-shot string (10 10-shot stings put together). Some bullets perform better than others but putting shot stings/bullets together it gives the reloader a real world idea of how a powder performs. There's a huge difference between a cherry picked bullet/powder/caliber combo and blanket testing. The blanket testing results from a 10 bullet, 10-shot stings (100 shots total) for power pistol, unique & BE-86 in a 2" bbl'd revoler using 38spl p+ loads of each powder.
Unique ='d 833fps
BE-86 ='d 845fps
PP ='d 887fps
Don't know why but I've always did 10-shot stings and blanket testing with different bullets/powders. Then I go back and cherry pick the top performers and fine tune them.
Head to head comparison power pistol vs unique vs be-86
Unique has been around a long time, lots of data. I've burned a lot of unique over the years and make no mistake about, I do like unique and use a lot of it. Unique really shines in the 44cal's and has more of a push/softer feel to it's loads. It was however more position sensitive with huge es's when the firearm was pointed up vs down. And as always, it performs best with near max loads.
BE-86 did extremely well across the board with all loads tested. It is a bit snappier than unique. BE-86 really shined in the 45acp, the other 2 powders could only equal it's performance at best. BE-86 had the lowest es's & sd's of the 3 powders tested. The light/starting loads were a little dirty but when I got to the middle and above of the recommended powder charges it burned clean.
Power pistol had more snap/jump than the other 2 powders and is at it's best with heavy/hot loads. PP burns clean with mid to full house loads and the es's really drop when you use heavy loads.
Fullhouse loads (magnum and p+)
At the end of the day BE-86 performed the same as unique. The only reason BE-86 had a high velocity than unique for a bullet/caliber combo was because it was extremely consistent/ low es's & sd's. BE-86 and unique were pretty much within +/- 20fps of each other when standard loads were used. I believe the difference is the sd's over a 20-shot string. The end result was that the BE-86 performed with consistently higher velocities over a wide range of bullets/calibers. Power pistol on the other hand outperformed the other 2 powders. But it was loud, a lot of flash and recoil compared to the other 2 powders.
Most powder do extremely well when compared to other powders with specific calibers, these powders were no different.
Unique while being the poorest performing of the 3 powders (overall/50+ bullet/calibers/loads tested) is better than the other 2 powders in the 44cal's. And it really shines in the 44spl.
BE-86, this powder meters extremely well, burns clean and is very consistent shot to shot. It really shines in the 45acp p+ loads.
Power pistol was the top performer over all and shines in the 38spl p+ loads.
BE-86 meters well, burns clean, isn't real snappy with recoil and has less flash than power pistol. For the most part it was slightly better in performance to unique but had the performance characteristics of power pistol in cases with small case capacity. Power pistol has always performed extremely well in cases with small case capacity like the 9mm, 38spl, 357, 45acp. BE-86 has those same qualities and will rival power pistol with some loads in those calibers.
After the testing was done I viewed BE-86 to be power pistol with a flash suppressing agent in it that changed the burn rate making it burn faster.
I would use BE-86 to replace unique, it meters better, burns cleaner and out performed unique in the majority of the loads tested.
Make no mistake about it bullseye and BE-86 are 2 different animals.
Put all three of those into the same powder and you'd have a winner. AS is great stuff but doesn't meter great and a lot of folks won't use it for that reason. (Many other powders as well). AA #2 is the poor mans N320, meters great, usually gives excellent ES numbers, is "forgiving" when getting near the top, and is one of the most position insensitive powders I have tried. (Another good attribute to try to achieve)
So, an American Select/N320/AA#2/W231ish burn rate powder with small kernels that meters well, burns clean, isn't picky about powder position in large cases as far as FPS goes, not dripping with graphite, burns thoroughly and clean, cost effective, did I miss something? Oh yes, light colored like W-231/WST/AA#2/Competition so we can see it in the case easily when seating a bullet.
IMHO of course.
Oh my lord, YES!!!!
mgmorden
Member
I can pretty much guarantee you that if you came out with something that performed like N320 it would fly off the shelves. In the competition shooting circuit, pretty much everyone seems to love N320 but a lot just don't want to pay what it costs (double what most other powder sells for).
I've shot a lot of Bullseye myself. Last time I ran out I couldn't find it and am currently loading out of a big jug of Titegroup, but basically what I usually look for is something fast burning (as fast as I can safely use to make major PF in .40), that meters well, is competitively priced, and burns clean. Generally in that order of importance.
Excellent write up. I have limited experience with BE-86 since I just got some and have only tried it in mid level .357 Loads. I have tried many powders (Including 20/28 & Unique) in midrange .357 and have had luck with some as far as accuracy goes, but the the FPS differences between powder forward in the case vs powder back in the case has always been a bit disappointing. In my initial (Small) test BE-86 was much better in that regard and my first four (And only) groups were very respectable.
How was BE-86 as far as position in the case for you?
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Arkansas Paul
Member
I guess I'm just old fashioned.
Until I find a problem with old Unique or old Bullseye, I reckon I'll just keep using them.
It ain't broken. So why try and fix it?
Until I find a problem with old Unique or old Bullseye, I reckon I'll just keep using them.
It ain't broken. So why try and fix it?
LiveLife
Member
Because you have reloaders like me who can't seem to meter Unique well. If Unique metered like Bullseye/Power Pistol/BE-86, I would be a fan. Since Unique doesn't meter well for most reloaders, we need BE-86, the "modern Unique".
As to Bullseye, I can meter it consistently down to 1.5 gr with this mod (2.0 gr with W231/HP-38 and 2.8 gr with Titegroup) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/working-diy-micro-auto-disk.741988/#post-9318360
How many powders can you consistently meter down to 1.5 gr with .1 gr variance? So for me, Bullseye isn't "broken" and is on hand for 380Auto/9mm loads. 
Since Unique doesn't meter well for most reloaders, we need BE-86, the "modern Unique".As to Bullseye, I can meter it consistently down to 1.5 gr with this mod (2.0 gr with W231/HP-38 and 2.8 gr with Titegroup) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/working-diy-micro-auto-disk.741988/#post-9318360
How many powders can you consistently meter down to 1.5 gr with .1 gr variance?
So for me, Bullseye isn't "broken" and is on hand for 380Auto/9mm loads.
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Fishslayer
Member
I would agree. During the component shortage though BE was unobtanium and I started using Green Dot as a substitute with good results. Data is very close but GD s a bit slower on the charts I've seen. While I've been able to stash a few pounds of BE away GD is stil my go-to for .38sp and .45ACP. The BE just gathers dust these days.
Never could find a load with W231 I liked as much as GD or BE.
I've been really liking the results I've been getting with BE86 and cast bullets in a few different calibers. BE86 & cast bullets seem to play well together.
alexcue
Member
Paul, always enjoy your feedback, can't wait to see what you come up with next as a Bullseye "replacement". Personally BE-86 has worked fantastic in my 9mm loads (124gr bullet) and even at comfortable 357mag loads. What I'm most impressed at is the accuracy I've been able to achieve with it. I still use the heck out of Unique for .45Colt though. Maybe I'll give BE-86 a shot at .45 Colt, but sometimes, I'm like why mess with a good thing! LOL
midland man
Member
I love using greendot in 45 colt with lead bullets as I get very good performance using this powder anyone else use greendot in their 45 colt??
bbqreloader
Member
BE-86 is a nice powder to use for my 9 but mostly my 45 loads. Just would have thought that for a push on a new powder there would have been more load info to it. Use to seeing alot of data for multiple gr weights from Lee, Lyman etc to include min and max. This was the first time I had to work with max load and do the 10% off, more for some of the loads. Great to have the BE 86 thread for some reference on what others have worked with.
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Potatohead
Member
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I like the old Bullseye.
rfwobbly
Member
Paul -
That would be IMR 7625, now discontinued !! That's why I'm eagerly awaiting the new IMR pistol powders.
OP
OP
There was Bullseye, Unique and BE-86 on the shelves at my local range last week...1lb, 4lb and 8lb bottles
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