Old time shooter not impressed with the AR platform and wanting to talk about the AK

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Pointlesswonder

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im looking to hopefully talk to the “operator” type about some AKs in the 308 variety. It’s my u derstanding they rest of the world prefers the 7.62x59 (308) in their AK so that suits me just fine. I just want something of higher quality that can shine in life and liberty/shtf/and zombie apocalypse situations. I’m looking for the rock star comparable to the m21, h&k 416, or ddmk18. There has to be more than just the iwi Galil ace and the scar 17/20. I’m not completely sure the scar can really be considered an AK but I’m not picky, if it’s able to handle the dirt where the AR fails that’s exactly what I’m wanting to hear about.

I’ve been shooting since I was two but I’m just now getting serious about a rig. I wanting to build a monster that secures life and liberty before morning coffee and still doesn’t know how to quit regardless how long ago it’d seen rim oil. Lol I’m ex navy vet but I’m not the gung ho type despite my enthusiasm for the rifle. I just want to see my family stay safe. God gave me a dad who taught me how to shoot whatever needed shootin so I figure I’ll build me a top tier defense rig and a top tier offense rig. Defense is good to go, daddy’s now wanting his merica stick.

I figure I could get one of those fancy m14 guys to glass bed their own version for $2,700 ish. I guess if I could find an ak that could mirror the custom made 2.7k m14 for around that price I would definitely go for it instead. If it performed relatively close then why burden yourself with all that weight? Even with a Sage EBR that’s still a massive amount plus that stock is stupid front heavy so no good out of prone. Lol, that’s me trying to talk myself out of the m14 haha. So if anyone could help, I’d be very greatful!
 
1) We don’t do SHTF or zombies here.

2) AK’s are chambered in 7.62x39mm, not x59mm, and it’s not 308 like the M14. The 7.62x39mm is a .311” bullet in a much, much smaller case than 308win/7.62x51mm.

3) You’re kinda all over the map, asking about AK’s vs. AR-15’s (DDMk18, HK 416) vs. M21/M14’s and SCAR17’s. The AK is a shorter, smaller case, like the AR-15, not comparable to the short action cartridges of the M14 and scar.

Top is the AK round, 7.62x39
Middle is the M14 round 7.62x51 aka 308win
Bottom is the AR-15 cartridge 5.56x45 aka 223rem

main-qimg-1c0dfdaa961ac11d0099171760c1f574-c.jpg
 
Varminterror said:
1) We don’t do SHTF or zombies here.

2) AK’s are chambered in 7.62x39mm, not x59mm, and it’s not 308 like the M14. The 7.62x39mm is a .311” bullet in a much, much smaller case than 308win/7.62x51mm.

3) You’re kinda all over the map, asking about AK’s vs. AR-15’s (DDMk18, HK 416) vs. M21/M14’s and SCAR17’s. The AK is a shorter, smaller case, like the AR-15, not comparable to the short action cartridges of the M14 and scar.

Top is the AK round, 7.62x39
Middle is the M14 round 7.62x51 aka 308win
Bottom is the AR-15 cartridge 5.56x45 aka 223rem

View attachment 832252
Click to expand...

He also implies that the AR isn't a reliable platform. I'd suggest that he look at some of the YouTube torture test videos. The one on the PSA Freedom AR is very telling. I think it was done by IraqVet8888.

If you run an AR dry, drag it on a dirt road behind a truck at speed, and even try to blow it up and it survives it tells a great deal about the platform.

Now if someone doesn't like ARs for whatever reason, then I say that's their business. But saying that ARs aren't reliable based on issues that the Army had in Vietnam is not right.

As for OP, I agree with you, I had a hard time understanding what they really wanted, or if it was just a rant hidden in a bunch of tangents.

In any case, I love the AR platform. I'm not a fan of the AK, but I'll admit I've never shot one, and I just don't find them appealing. Now that doesn't mean I think the AK is junk or can't hit a target. The opposite is true in that I think like the AR they're a platform that has stood the test of time. I just have no interest in getting one now. Yes, I'd shoot one if given the chance, and I may get one down the road if money and desire come about. But that's my little tangent.

I guess my comment to OP is what are you really saying/asking/etc?
 
Look at the various AR-10 based rifles that are chambered in .308. They have lots of benefits if you already know how to operate a M-16.
Just like a AR15 you can build your own version or modify yours for your best needs.
A AR-10 based rifle is very easy to mount optics compared to a M-14.
Accuracy is far superior then any AK based rifle.
 
Hokie_PhD said:
He also implies that the AR isn't a reliable platform.
Click to expand...

Trust me, amigo, duly noted! But I have largely given up on trying to convince anyone on reality vs. delusion about AR’s. It’s one of those, like our silly hundred page 6.5 creed vs. 270win thread that I really do try not to let myself get drawn into - I failed miserably to hold my tongue in that ridiculous thread, so I tried to keep myself more focused in this thread.

At my last job, some coworkers dubbed me “MG”. Eventually I found it meant “machine gunner.” To communicate concisely with big technical discussions, I break things down into bullet points - my colleagues noted I only give high level keynotes unless I was really pissed, or considering someone’s argument to be rather stupid - at which point I would send a “bullet list,” largely to stop myself for speaking how I really wanted with a wall of derisive text. Note, here in this thread, I sent a bullet list...
 
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As though not everything else the OP said has been disproven enough yet:

It’s my u derstanding they rest of the world prefers the 7.62x59 (308) in their AK so that suits me just fine.​

Setting aside the misunderstanding that 7.62x36 M43 is not .308 in any way, a number of the countries that actually issue AK pattern rifles of any sort (to include the Finns) have long used, or are switching to, 5.56. It works rather well in the platform, and you get more capacity or get to carry shorter mags. And then there's the 5.45 ones just to add more to it.
 
Man, there's a lot of wrong stuff in that opening post. "The rest of the world" doesn't prefer AK's in 308's. Nobody prefers AK's in 308, as that's not a thing. Lots of nations (including Russia) "prefer" AK's in 5.45, the needle-like cartridge that is similar to our 5.56/.223. Of those who "prefer" AK's in a 7.62 diameter, it's a x39 intermediate cartridge. There are AK-ish things in the old x54r (Dragonuvs), but those are for designated marksman/sniper-type roles, not stuff that would be relevant to home defense. AR's are "prefered" by a wide swath of the "rest of the world," as are a bunch of other assault rifles that aren't an AK or an AR. Just because something is piston-driven doesn't make it a AK, just as having an inline 6 doesn't make a sport sedan a BMW. Gripes about M16 reliability from two generations ago with ammo no longer in use and cleaning standards no longer in use and components no longer in use aren't very informative about modern AR's.

I could go on and on, but, man, there's a lot of wrong stuff there. Which is OK, just be aware of how much misinformation you'll need to offload.
 
AKs are crude and sloppy. The AR-15 platform is a vastly better rifle all the way around.


Our tip of the spear warriors carry AR variants into the world to kill bad people.
Top of the line competitors in competitions that place a premium on both accuracy and reliability use AR15s.

There was a time when AK parts kits were relatively cheap. Now they are relatively expensive.


I don't mean this as an assault on anyone who owns or prefers the AK platform. They shoot bullets and they are unquestionably an important rifle in the course of small arms development. There are boutique solutions out there that offer advantages over a standard AK.


This myth of AK reliability and accompanying myth of AR unreliability is just false all the way around.



In the unlikely even that any civilian NEEDS their rifle for some nasty situation, proficiency with a reliable rifle is what is going to count. You can get that with either an AK or an AR.


I contend you can get it better and cheaper in an AR. If you are going to spend $2k+, spend half on the rifle and half on the optic but only if that leaves you money left over for mag and ammo and enough ammo to spend time shooting to know how to use it.
 
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I have never seen an AK or an SKS for that matter that I would consider high quality. They are basically stamped metal rifles made to do a job dependably as cheaply as possible and they do so. I have never owned either and never will although I have shot each. If you like them that's great and you are welcome to my share of them.
 
Just wait until the eastern bloc ammo dries up with an import ban or tariff. I give it 2 to 4 years and it will be gone.

But you can always reload it for not much more than the cost of factory 5.56 x 45.:D
 
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Varminterror said:
1) We don’t do SHTF or zombies here.

2) AK’s are chambered in 7.62x39mm, not x59mm, and it’s not 308 like the M14. The 7.62x39mm is a .311” bullet in a much, much smaller case than 308win/7.62x51mm.

3) You’re kinda all over the map, asking about AK’s vs. AR-15’s (DDMk18, HK 416) vs. M21/M14’s and SCAR17’s. The AK is a shorter, smaller case, like the AR-15, not comparable to the short action cartridges of the M14 and scar.

Top is the AK round, 7.62x39
Middle is the M14 round 7.62x51 aka 308win
Bottom is the AR-15 cartridge 5.56x45 aka 223rem

View attachment 832252
Click to expand...
Yup the middle one. And whaddaya mean you don’t do shtf or zombies? If shtf and zombies come out there gonna do you.... js.... wait, I mean jk
 
doubleh said:
I have never seen an AK or an SKS for that matter that I would consider high quality. They are basically stamped metal rifles made to do a job dependably as cheaply as possible and they do so. I have never owned either and never will although I have shot each. If you like them that's great and you are welcome to my share of them.
Click to expand...

Please? I’ll take em all. Lol a nice one may just be the stamped one riveted by a superior riveter? I donno, that’s why I’m asking.... the ar may be able to exceed in accuracy but when operators are coming back to tell me the ar15 is primarily the range hero’s toy it tends to make me wonder
 
cdb1 said:
Interesting.



Another interesting statement. How can one be an ex navy vet? Once you are a veteran you can never be an ex veteran.
Click to expand...
IndianaBoy said:
AKs are crude and sloppy. The AR-15 platform is a vastly better rifle all the way around.


Our tip of the spear warriors carry AR variants into the world to kill bad people.
Top of the line competitors in competitions that place a premium on both accuracy and reliability use AR15s.

There was a time when AK parts kits were relatively cheap. Now they are relatively expensive.


I don't mean this as an assault on anyone who owns or prefers the AK platform. They shoot bullets and they are unquestionably an important rifle in the course of small arms development. There are boutique solutions out there that offer advantages over a standard AK.


This myth of AK reliability and accompanying myth of AR unreliability is just false all the way around.



In the unlikely even that any civilian NEEDS their rifle for some nasty situation, proficiency with a reliable rifle is what is going to count. You can get that with either an AK or an AR.


I contend you can get it better and cheaper in an AR. If you are going to spend $2k+, spend half on the rifle and half on the optic but only if that leaves you money left over for mag and ammo and enough ammo to spend time shooting to know how to use it.
Click to expand...

Very safely made argument, like your style. I was raised on shooting guns, every gun. No issues with self defense with a .22 wmr. Actually that’s, the .22, is my edc. Usually I carry a p938 as my backup or truck gun but u cannot find me showering without the .22. Anyone who puts the round down as a good defensive round is part mall ninja. But that’s for your “civilian” statement. The idea that a 1st world country civilian doesn’t need an overly capable rifle is exactly the reason he does. I can’t safely defend myself with a .22 pistol against one or two at 30 foot and less distances. More and farther apart and it’s time to take an assault rifle. In any situation that causes transportation to go out and you will find a real reason a civilian needs a tank. It’s only happened a million times before. Egypt, Rome, Russia (1980s wasn’t it?) just to name a few you can read about. Europe is fighting their governments right now as we speak.

All I’m really relying to say is that as Americans we have the right to buy ourselves a real defensive or if nessesary a real offensive capability. Like, it’s not the American way to go to the car lot and buy a car because “it’s all you need” because practical is the only common sense you need. Not unless you’re 50 and somehow dodge your “midlife crisis” lol. Anyway, every American should have a life and liberty rig. Our forefathers intended us to and that is the very reason for the second amendment. Plus zombies, especially honey badger zombies

Lol sorry for the jumbled thought process, it’s time for the children coming home from school
 
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