Is the 1911 Still Relevant?

I know he carried a 35. The report I saw mentioned a 34. 17’s are fine guns.

Loaded (sorry, had to say it) Question.

Is Black Powder still relevant? Depends upon the coontext.

Not all that is New and Modern is Better.

Better, or Relevant in this case, is what each of us makes of it.

Is the 1911 relevant? Is to me.

JTQ said:

Then there is the late Pat Rogers who moved to the M&P http://www.swatvault.com/weapons-training-and-tactics/putting-down-the-man-gun/

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My primary reason for leaving the 1911 will most likely be because I think the 1911 is a gunsmith gun while the more modern guns are armorer guns.
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On the other hand, even if you have no mechanical skills yourself, you can find just about anybody at the local gun store who can install new sights on a Glock in a few minutes, and nearly every part can be swapped out without using a file or stone, and they just snap into place.

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Great post! Totally agree with these points. And I’m one of those guys who is comfortable stripping a Glock to pieces, and “bolting on parts”, but scared to try and tweak or fit parts on it with any type of file, stone, etc.

Buzznrose said:

Great post! Totally agree with these points. And I’m one of those guys who is comfortable stripping a Glock to pieces, and “bolting on parts”, but scared to try and tweak or fit parts on it with any type of file, stone, etc.

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What does one have to do to improve new Colt Rail Gun? Granted it costs about twice as much as a Glock but one is getting all stainless gun not something made half of molded plastic. From my perspective switching parts on Glock to make it more user friendly or in some way better is just unnesessary wast of money.

paulsj said:

What does one have to do to improve new Colt Rail Gun?

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Nothing. Heck, generally speaking, I don't think you have to do anything to improve most current production 1911's.

However, if you ever crack your firing pin stop, or snap the hook off your extractor, or crack a barrel bushing, etc., it's generally not a plug and play situation.

Let me add - I sometimes feel like I'm on a one man crusade on all the "what 1911 should I get" threads, trying to point out to folks new to 1911's that not all sight dovetails (some front sights don't even have a dovetail) are the same, and not all grip tangs are the same, which means the sights you like may not be available for your chosen 1911 without some filing, grinding, or welding, and the same if you want to change your grip safety to or from a GI or beavertail grip safety.

Walkalong

A great many 1911 parts drop in if you buy quality 1911s and parts. Yep, some parts need fitting for best function.

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This is what I have experienced working on my own and others 1911s. Even if the 1911 being modified isn't of the highest quality, many parts from quality manufacturers will drop in or require just a small amount of filing for a proper fit. This is provided of course that the manufacturer hasn't strayed too far from the original design with their own version of it.

Is the 1911 still relevant?, are large bore revolvers still relevant?, is any "modern" firearms made in the last 125 years still relevant?, it all depends on what the particular "tastes" in firearms one has, and what "application" a particular firearm will used for.

It's never been relevant to me. I've yet to handle one.

paulsj said:

What does one have to do to improve new Colt Rail Gun? Granted it costs about twice as much as a Glock but one is getting all stainless gun not something made half of molded plastic. From my perspective switching parts on Glock to make it more user friendly or in some way better is just unnesessary wast of money.

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“Improvements” and “Customizing” are two different things.

For years, i shot stock Glocks with only upgrades being night sights. Didn’t really need them looking back, as I never got into a gunfight in low light (or ever, happily), but I feel they have value, and I change the sights on most of my pistols, not just Glocks. My call. And again, this is subjective.

And you assume a stainless aluminum frame is better than a polymer frame. Perhaps that may be true, but for many folk in most situations, it may not be. Metal frames wear and crack plenty. With very hard use (high volume rental), the part on a Glock that seems most prone to breaking, according to a lot of info provided by the owner is Battlefield Las Vegas, is the front section of the slide. That’s a metal part. And based on his observations, it’s not just Glocks. Their Sig 226’s, Beretta 92’s, and 1911’s are all prone to wearing out and eventually breaking from high round counts and semi-abusive handling by customers and crew. The one thing that is most impressive is the Glocks will continue to function with completely broken frames (but their point of aim shifts significantly).

Anyone interested in reading the info I’m talking about can Google
“AR15.Com hendersondefense” (yes, Henderson defense is one word).

Read the posts by the member “HendersonDefense”. He created a thread for AR’s, AK’s, Pistols, Optics, and PCC’s. He has a LOT of very interesting and, from what I can see, non-biased information.

JTQ said:

My primary reason for leaving the 1911 will most likely be because I think the 1911 is a gunsmith gun while the more modern guns are armorer guns.

When I began shooting the 1911 in the late 1980's, there was somebody at nearly every gun shop, even in small towns, who could skillfully work on 1911's, though even then, those guys were getting a old.

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My two Springfield Armory 1911's needed gunsmith attention right out of the box. The plunger tube on one of them was loose and had to be restaked. The other one had feeding issues.

I have a extended thumb safety on one of them. I decided a quite awhile back that I don't like it and want to reinstall the original thumb safety. The problem is the original thumb safety is very rough and difficult to operate and needs to be fitted. I have not had it fitted yet because I have not found a local "gunsmith" that I believe has the necessary knowledge to do the job correctly.

I am demanding when it comes to having my guns worked on. One of the local talent could install the safety but I want a crisp, smooth off and on operation, not a mushy one. Most "gunsmiths" in my area are into modular guns such as the AR and modern semi-autos. I don't even think about letting them touch my revolvers.

BSA1 said:

My two Springfield Armory 1911's needed gunsmith attention right out of the box. The plunger tube on one of them was loose and had to be restaked. The other one had feeding issues.

I have a extended thumb safety on one of them. I decided a quite awhile back that I don't like it and want to reinstall the original thumb safety. The problem is the original thumb safety is very rough and difficult to operate and needs to be fitted. I have not had it fitted yet because I have not found a local "gunsmith" that I believe has the necessary knowledge to do the job correctly. Most "gunsmiths" in my area are into modular guns such as the AR and modern semi-autos. I don't even think about letting them touch my revolvers.

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Everyone is different but all my 1911s have been good to go out of the box except 2 that needed the extractor tension adjusted, which is a 5 minute task with no tool required.

Even so, the couple guns I've had work done on I just skipped local gunsmiths and sent them in to reputable places. It's not that difficult, but does take more time I suppose.

Though I am competent enough to handle minor fitting, should it be necessary, to replace broken parts. I only had one slide stop I decided to replace and the one I ordered dropped in with no issue. Apart from that and numerous recoil springs my 1911s have needed precious little maintainence.

But I only shoot a few thousand a year through any given gun, so YMMV

BSA1 said:

My two Springfield Armory 1911's needed gunsmith attention right out of the box. The plunger tube on one of them was loose and had to be restaked. The other one had feeding issues.

I have a extended thumb safety on one of them. I decided a quite awhile back that I don't like it and want to reinstall the original thumb safety. The problem is the original thumb safety is very rough and difficult to operate and needs to be fitted. I have not had it fitted yet because I have not found a local "gunsmith" that I believe has the necessary knowledge to do the job correctly.

I am demanding when it comes to having my guns worked on. One of the local talent could install the safety but I want a crisp, smooth off and on operation, not a mushy one. Most "gunsmiths" in my area are into modular guns such as the AR and modern semi-autos. I don't even think about letting them touch my revolvers.

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Since they were out of the box I would have sent them back to Springfield Armory. When I wanted affordable 1911 I chose Colt for simple reason they actually produce major components of the firearm not just assemble bunch of parts made by others. From looking on mine the only thing that would require gunsmith for replacement is probably barrel assembly because barrel is marked Match or National Match which probably indicates target grade. The rest of the gun should pose no problems if manufacturer replacements are used.

Primary CCW Carry is a GLOCK G36/.45 ACP.

But the SPRINGFIELD MilSpec 1911-A1 goes into the field quite a bit.





GR

Gotta say, I still chuckle about that anecdote about the instructor event where 48 out of the 50 instructors were packing Glocks or M&Ps, and only two (dinosaurs) had 1911s. There's been a huge cultural shift over the past 15 or so years in the handgun community, but I'll still give more respect to the dedicated 1911 guys over the millennial plastic pistol guys.

As far as Pat Rogers (whom I always respected), he was honest about his physical issues and the reason he went to 9mm; yes, he acknowledged that on today's streets, more bullets on tap was preferable, but his conversion as an instructor was mostly a nod to his tendonitis and arthritis problems (and unfortunately, I'm intimately familiar with those issues).

94045 said:

Went into one of the local gun shops yesterday (pretty quiet on Monday Morning) and one of the clerks I know was sitting behind the counter with a few files, a box full of small parts, a raw frame and slide, happily rough fitting a 1911. Age? About 30. I don't know how many he has built but It's about the Fourth time I've caught him building a 1911. I know 2 Older Smiths + 1 in his mid 30's that you trust not to butcher a 1911.


I don't think the 1911 is going to die anytime soon. After all the Colt SAA is still around. But I know a lot of guys that used to carry the 1911 that now carry a Glock or M&P.

Like I said I'm going to at least bring out of retirement and shoot it a bit. Remains to be seen if I'm going to carry it.

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Was thinking about it, and my 3 local shops all stock more 1911s than any other model. Granted, 2 of the 3 are Kimber master dealers.

As long as cartridge pistols are the norm 45ACP will be relevant. Ray guns, laser guns, electric rail guns or some such sci-fantasy stuff might be cooler but as long as there are bad guys, give me a 45.

Old Dog said:

Gotta say, I still chuckle about that anecdote about the instructor event where 48 out of the 50 instructors were packing Glocks or M&Ps, and only two (dinosaurs) had 1911s. There's been a huge cultural shift over the past 15 or so years in the handgun community, but I'll still give more respect to the dedicated 1911 guys over the millennial plastic pistol guys.

As far as Pat Rogers (whom I always respected), he was honest about his physical issues and the reason he went to 9mm; yes, he acknowledged that on today's streets, more bullets on tap was preferable, but his conversion as an instructor was mostly a nod to his tendonitis and arthritis problems (and unfortunately, I'm intimately familiar with those issues).

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Just because someone is long in the tooth and toting a 1911 doesn't mean he knows how to use it. I guess I'm one of those millennial plastic pistol guys although I do own a 1911. Wait, can I be 55 years old and still be considered a millennial?

Buzznrose said:

With very hard use (high volume rental), the part on a Glock that seems most prone to breaking, according to a lot of info provided by the owner is Battlefield Las Vegas, is the front section of the slide. That’s a metal part. And based on his observations, it’s not just Glocks. Their Sig 226’s, Beretta 92’s, and 1911’s are all prone to wearing out and eventually breaking from high round counts and semi-abusive handling by customers and crew. The one thing that is most impressive is the Glocks will continue to function with completely broken frames (but their point of aim shifts significantly).

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He might be the owner/employee (?). However, isn't very knowledgeable on the guns. i.e didn't know what the Beretta locking block was called, nor do 1911's have trigger springs.
Its actually the rear of the slides frame rail where the Gen4's are prone to breaking (20-30k). I knew there was a reason I preferred my gen3's...
Makes sense as I once dropped a Glock slide and ruined it.

One of the youtube gun people ( no clue which one) did a reliability interview with the same place with a young gunsmith. He stated the most common issue was the safety snapping and the sear/disconnect Now RIA's and Springers are full of MIM so take that however you wish.


Quick math.. The cheapest magtech ammo using WikiArms is 0.16 a pop. (Its what they use, I am sure they get it quite a bit cheaper.)
So your in $16,000 - $25,000 before your frame is broken on the steel guns. Is it that big of a deal? Go buy another.

Kinda like a member on another board shooting the heck out of 2 G5 Glock 19's.. Both broke the same part in the trigger housing at 10k rounds ish.. Its a ten dollar part fix it and move on..
They are machines. If you havent had a malfunction, you simply have not shot enough.

tarosean said:

He might be the owner/employee (?). However, isn't very knowledgeable on the guns. i.e didn't know what the Beretta locking block was called, nor do 1911's have trigger springs.
Its actually the rear of the slides frame rail where the Gen4's are prone to breaking (20-30k). I knew there was a reason I preferred my gen3's...
Makes sense as I once dropped a Glock slide and ruined it.

One of the youtube gun people ( no clue which one) did a reliability interview with the same place with a young gunsmith. He stated the most common issue was the safety snapping and the sear/disconnect Now RIA's and Springers are full of MIM so take that however you wish.


Quick math.. The cheapest magtech ammo using WikiArms is 0.16 a pop. (Its what they use, I am sure they get it quite a bit cheaper.)
So your in $16,000 - $25,000 before your frame is broken on the steel guns. Is it that big of a deal? Go buy another.

Kinda like a member on another board shooting the heck out of 2 G5 Glock 19's.. Both broke the same part in the trigger housing at 10k rounds ish.. Its a ten dollar part fix it and move on..
They are machines. If you havent had a malfunction, you simply have not shot enough.

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I’m glad you took time to read some/all of the thread. It’s been some time since I read it.

I don’t know that not knowing an internal parts proper name really makes much difference...and he doesn’t claim to be the Smithy, but when the Smithy’s he is employing come show him the parts they are replacing often, he understands what he’s paying for.

I find the info he provides very interesting, as it’s hard to really get a lot of real world (gun range) high volume data points.

Most of my Glocks are Gen 4’s. I’ve not had issues yet and am over 35K on one gun. But my guns don’t see the frequency of use (daily) his do...not sure that makes a difference or not.

Walkalong said:

You can identify any way you wish these days. Want to be a Millennial? No problem, be a Millennial.


So true, and just because some one is 19 and looks a little green doesn't mean they don't know what they are doing.

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Not always, but most of the time it does.

Thomas Mayberry said:

Why is it that people feel the need to question the ability of the 1911 to function in a defensive role. The firearm served our military under combat conditions for over 70 years. I think the question was answered long ago.

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New people are born every day.

There will ALWAYS be some who were born yesterday.